Rand Paul Responds to Ron: 'Chris Kyle Was a Hero'

[A Son of Liberty]

If Rand gets in the White House, brings the troops home, and sets off a major recovery, they just might buy a clue or two.

Hey, if Rand brings the troops home and sets off a recovery, few will be happier than I, but nothing about this supposed strategy will buy anyone a clue.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

I agree that adding "to some" would have been bad. But he could have said other things that weren't false.

Of course Rand may actually believe what he said. But I would like him more if he didn't.

And this is the dilemma we face. However, I stand by my statement that we shouldn't judge people based on their opinions or what they say abou other people.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

The problem is manipulation and dishonesty that would call into question who Ron is. I, personally, would think it was utterly vile.

However, I think you have happened on a scenario YOU don't mind which explains to you facts you don't like, so you want it to be true. I see no evidence at all that Ron is going along with something like that however. If he were, his facebook post would been different, don't you think?

I can see it now. Ron hears the request from Rand and says, "No! I won't have any part in it!" The next day, he goes out and makes a speech saying the exact same things as if he agreed to Rand's request. Can you hear yourself think?

 

[acptulsa]

And Ron isn't backing off foreign policy! That's the beauty of it. It's full steam ahead for Ron. Rand is taking then "try to agree with your adversary and then win him over to your position" approach. There's nothing dishonest or Machiavellian about it. In fact the more people Ron wins over, the less Rand will need to posture.

I don't think pincers movement is the right description for what you're saying. I think of it (and I do think it's happening) as an icebreaker (the father) and a ship following it. Or, if you prefer, Ron is the bulldozer and Rand is riding the road he graded.

Planned or accidental, intentional or serendipidous, it's not only brilliant it's possibly the only way we could put someone in the White House. The person who makes Americans think is bound to be a lightning rod. For many, that's a pretty unforgiveable sin.

Hey, if Rand brings the troops home and sets off a recovery, few will be happier than I, but nothing about this supposed strategy will buy anyone a clue.

Yes it will. Because I will personally spend the following five years rubbing warmongers' noses in the fact that it shoots their 'war is good for the economy' myth completely out of the sky. And I will take no prisoners.

 

[phill4paul]

And this is the dilemma we face. However, I stand by my statement that we shouldn't judge people based on their opinions or what they say abou other people.

Oh, the fucking irony.......

Drama queen. Seriously, grow up.

 

[sailingaway]

I can see it now. Ron hears the request from Rand and says, "No! I won't have any part in it!" The next day, he goes out and makes a speech saying the exact same things as if he agreed to Rand's request. Can you hear yourself think?

What? What request? The one made up here?

 

[PaulConventionWV]

College boy, you constantly are spanked by adults that know more and are better at expressing their position. I could'nt care less about your opinion of me.

Wow, big manly man, aren't you? What is this spanking you speak of? Why don't you just take the hint and grow up. I'm not kidding. Instead of taking offense, look back on yourself once in a while so you can realize how much of a drama queen you're being.

 

[jmdrake]

Last post from me on this tonight. Am I the only one here that remembers the "Ken Buck" fiasco? Am I the only one that remembers the claims that the C4L must have been "taken over" for it to cut a TV commercial that kinda/sorta supported Ken Buck despite Buck having some less than pure views on foreign policy? Remember the crow a lot of us ate (including myself) when it came out that Ron was very much aware of the decision before it happened?

Folks this is political warfare! This whole series of threads surround the death of a SEAL who's actions in war, while questionable, might have been necessary from his perspective. Sure there's no need to disparage some woman he shot while she was about to blow up some marines. But if he was telling the truth, and I have no reason to doubt that he was, then he saved some troops' lives. Do you think they care whether he was compassionate and cried tears after pulling the trigger? I'm writing this as someone who is not a fan of Chris Kyle. My point is that one advantage our enemies have is that they don't expect their heroes to be pure as the driven snow. (And no, I don't count Kyle as an enemy or everyone who sees him as a hero to be an enemy. But those who started that vile war are my enemies).

I saw the video I posted in post #62 back in 2010. Back then I tried to raise concerns, without attacking Rand, over the strategy of pushing so hard for the "teocon" vote rather than pushing the principles of his dad, especially since polls indicated he was way ahead of Trey Grayson. I was roundly attacked for doing so. I had the same concerns many are expressing now. It could "split the movement." We "need to actually change hearts and minds instead of just winning people over." It "seems underhanded." Well, history shows that Rand won and he seems to be growing in prominence because he's following a strategy I don't particularly like. I wrote a letter to him expressing my concerns and planned to hand deliver it to him the night of his primary victory. Though I got the chance I decided not to go through with it. I decided then to just ride this out and see what happens. I'm glad people hold Rand's feet to the fire. It seems Ron is not one of those people. It also seems that Ron is pushing an agenda that seems at cross purposes with Rand's, but really isn't. Maybe I'm wrong in my analysis. But if my analysis is correct I see nothing "vile" about what might be happening.

Over the past months we've been turning more and more against each other. Different factions try to "control" what the other is doing. Imagine if this movement is metamorphosing into something new where people are freer to be themselves while still pushing for the same ultimate goal? You like educating rather than politicizing? Work with Ron Paul and Tom Woods. You'd rather concentrate on winning elections? Work with Rand Paul, Jack Hunter and John Tate. This "split" ain't necessarily a bad thing.

 

[Butchie]

Hate the war, not the warrior. The warrior has a job to do. And given the right circumstances, warriors are a very valuable tool.

I take issue with that, our own govt has proclaimed "I was just following orders" is not an excuse.

Before you say it, YES, I did serve, so I understand being young, dumb and 18 right out of high school, but when I got sent to Haiti in '95 I looked around and said to myself, "What issue do I have with these people? Why am I even here? Would I really start killing them if Clinton told me to?", my answer was no, and I did not re-enlist. Uniform or not, orders or not, you always have a resposibility to do the right thing.

 

[dannno]

I don't think pincers movement is the right description for what you're saying. I think of it (and I do think it's happening) as an icebreaker (the father) and a ship following it. Or, if you prefer, Ron is the bulldozer and Rand is riding the road he graded.

Nah, I think the Pincer movement is a better description of what's happening. There were quite a few people here who didn't support Rand when he ran for Senate. It took me a couple weeks of hmmmming and huhhhhing at things he said to finally realize that he was implementing a completely different strategy to get elected in Kentucky. Since it worked, he has been stepping up his game and utilizing this strategy even more. He's really walking quite the tight rope, I give him mad props for it.

 

[A Son of Liberty]

The split may or may not be a bad thing; the only thing I can say about this whole situation is that my mouth wouldn't even allow me to call Chris Kyle a hero. My tongue would snap off it's roller before the words passed my lips.

 

[phill4paul]

Wow, big manly man, aren't you? What is this spanking you speak of? Why don't you just take the hint and grow up. I'm not kidding. Instead of taking offense, look back on yourself once in a while so you can realize how much of a drama queen you're being.

The spanking? The one I've witnessed so many times as you make idiotic statements and have to back peddle? I'm grown. You are a pup living in the world of academia. Get some dirt, callouses, wrinkles and age spots on your hands and come back at me.

 

[A Son of Liberty]

I take issue with that, our own govt has proclaimed "I was just following orders" is not an excuse.

Before you say it, YES, I did serve, so I understand being young, dumb and 18 right out of high school, but when I got sent to Haiti in '95 I looked around and said to myself, "What issue do I have with these people? Why am I even here? Would I really start killing them if Clinton told me to?", my answer was no, and I did not re-enlist. Uniform or not, orders or not, you always have a resposibility to do the right thing.

+rep to you, sir! Thank you for your THOUGHTFULNESS.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

I have contributed to Ron in many ways. Who the fuck are YOU to tell me whether my feelings and beliefs are valid? Get your swinging dick out of college and gain another 20 years and then talk to me. I'm expressing my OPINION. Don't like that? Tough luck. WTF? No keggers tonight?

You are expressing your opinion as you have a right to, and I'm merely expressing mine. I met Ron for the first time while serving as an elected delegate to the state convention in 2008 while I was still a senior in high school. Who are you to tell me I need another 20 years before I can talk to you, you ageist prick?

 

[dannno]

Last post from me on this tonight. Am I the only one here that remembers the "Ken Buck" fiasco? Am I the only one that remembers the claims that the C4L must have been "taken over" for it to cut a TV commercial that kinda/sorta supported Ken Buck despite Buck having some less than pure views on foreign policy? Remember the crow a lot of us ate (including myself) when it came out that Ron was very much aware of the decision before it happened?

Folks this is political warfare! This whole series of threads surround the death of a SEAL who's actions in war, while questionable, might have been necessary from his perspective. Sure there's no need to disparage some woman he shot while she was about to blow up some marines. But if he was telling the truth, and I have no reason to doubt that he was, then he saved some troops' lives. Do you think they care whether he was compassionate and cried tears after pulling the trigger? I'm writing this as someone who is not a fan of Chris Kyle. My point is that one advantage our enemies have is that they don't expect their heroes to be pure as the driven snow. (And no, I don't count Kyle as an enemy or everyone who sees him as a hero to be an enemy. But those who started that vile war are my enemies).

I saw the video I posted in post #62 back in 2010. Back then I tried to raise concerns, without attacking Rand, over the strategy of pushing so hard for the "teocon" vote rather than pushing the principles of his dad, especially since polls indicated he was way ahead of Trey Grayson. I was roundly attacked for doing so. I had the same concerns many are expressing now. It could "split the movement." We "need to actually change hearts and minds instead of just winning people over." It "seems underhanded." Well, history shows that Rand won and he seems to be growing in prominence because he's following a strategy I don't particularly like. I wrote a letter to him expressing my concerns and planned to hand deliver it to him the night of his primary victory. Though I got the chance I decided not to go through with it. I decided then to just ride this out and see what happens. I'm glad people hold Rand's feet to the fire. It seems Ron is not one of those people. It also seems that Ron is pushing an agenda that seems at cross purposes with Rand's, but really isn't. Maybe I'm wrong in my analysis. But if my analysis is correct I see nothing "vile" about what might be happening.

Over the past months we've been turning more and more against each other. Different factions try to "control" what the other is doing. Imagine if this movement is metamorphosing into something new where people are freer to be themselves while still pushing for the same ultimate goal? You like educating rather than politicizing? Work with Ron Paul and Tom Woods. You'd rather concentrate on winning elections? Work with Rand Paul, Jack Hunter and John Tate. This "split" ain't necessarily a bad thing.

This is like the third time in the last 2 hours...

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to jmdrake again."

 

[sailingaway]

Could the side argument find its own thread please?

 

[phill4paul]

Could the side argument find its own thread please?

Done.

 

[acptulsa]

Nah, I think the Pincer movement is a better description of what's happening. There were quite a few people here who didn't support Rand when he ran for Senate. It took me a couple weeks of hmmmming and huhhhhing at things he said to finally realize that he was implementing a completely different strategy to get elected in Kentucky. Since it worked, he has been stepping up his game and utilizing this strategy even more. He's really walking quite the tight rope, I give him mad props for it.

I see the pincers aspect of it. But, quite honestly, I think what's working for Rand is that his father introduced them to some of the aspects of libertarian (read paleo-, or real) conservatism, and they had a knee jerk reaction to it. This innoculated them so that their reaction to Rand wasn't so pronounced. Add to that the fact that Rand is bending over backwards to talk the way they like their candidates to talk, and it's no wonder Rand is pissing them off less--and pissing liberals off more--than Ron did. The bad part is that Ron paved the way with Republicans, but we are likely have much more difficulty selling Rand to everyone else in the general election.

Ron was a trailblazer. Rand is just walking the trail. But I hope he learns to temper his Fox Newspeak before he ruins his chances with non-dittoheads.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

Oh, the fucking irony.......

I'm not judging you. People think that because I don't judge people, I can't say what my opinion is of them. You really are being a drama queen. I would be juding you if I said you deserved to go to hell or some similar statement. I don't judge people like that. I will not say what Chris Kyle deserves. If someone is a mass killer, I will tell people they are a mass killer, just like Chris Kyle, but I won't say what their fate should be, and certainly wouldn't try to hurt them to serve my own version of justice. That's what I mean when I say I don't judge people.

 

[ProvincialPeasant]

This is why the country will never adopt the foreign policy sought by many on this forum. Not only is it not restricted to the content of Washington's farewell address and strict constitutionalism taken from the right, but it takes the hatred of soldiers and the military from the left.

I sought of doubt Ron actually tweeted that. Living in Texas, I'm sure he'd know better than to talk shit about soldiers. But whatever, good on Rand for distancing himself implicitly from the idiots in this movement.