Push For Secession If Healthcare Passes?

[Mini-Me]

The people can more easily control the local State congressmen than they can US congressman. It would be easier to push for a State to secede than it would be to ever to get the federal government to act only within its constitutional authority.

The way the states have been flexing their muscles recently, I think I agree (and that's in addition to the logical reasons for closer representation being more accountable). At the very least, state-level nullification in select states would likely be easier than trying to restrain the feds directly. Ultimately, that route also leads to secession due to the blackmail the feds would undoubtedly use to subjugate the "rebel" states. If feds attacked militarily, that would force them to show their true colors and work to shift public opinion in our favor in the long run. There's no "easy" way to gain our freedom, but I definitely think state-level politics are a largely unexplored and semi-promising avenue.

 

[Galileo Galilei]

You cannot vote them out since the political system and broadcast media is rigged in favor of the established parties which shuts out opposition.

And the system is not even more rigged against secession?

To even think about secession realistically, you would need national poll numbers or at least 70% in favor of it, maybe even 80%.

Or you would need those poll numbers in a several key states.

 

[erowe1]

How should the secession be done; by voting or by decree?

Secession should be done by any means possible.

But practically speaking, in our context, it would most likely be brought about by voting, but not a nationwide vote, just a vote on the part of the membership of whatever part of the nation secedes (most likely, but not necessarily, a whole state). The opinion of everyone outside that group is irrelevant, as long as there aren't enough of them who are so opposed to their secession that they would go to war to stop them, which I don't see as likely.

As to your earlier point, that doing this would be stupid because it would mean seceding from the same government that they had elected, it would probably be the case that the group that secedes in response to the results of any given election would not be a group that elected the winning regime. I can understand calling it stupid for Illinois to secede out of rebellion to the Obama regime, but the same couldn't be said of Texas.

 

[davesxj]

Why wait for the collective?

They can't send us all to jail nor can they survive if we're all there.

 

[literatim]

And the system is not even more rigged against secession?

To even think about secession realistically, you would need national poll numbers or at least 70% in favor of it, maybe even 80%.

Or you would need those poll numbers in a several key states.

A secession involves only the portion of the country that wants to secede. What other people in other States think does not matter. Montana was basically one vote away from secession, vote in someone that is willing to vote that way and the first State could secede. After one secedes, others will follow.

 

[catdd]

It seems like an impossible dream to think that this runaway trainwreck called Federal Government will ever start obeying the Constitution, and that's really all we are asking. But we should not have be in a constant state of war defending our liberty and freedom from DC bureaucrats like we are. This is not what the Founding Fathers wanted. This is not the kind of country they envisioned.
There's no doubt that a state government would be easier to control.

 

[federalistnp]

Actually, quite a few. Soviet troops had to be deployed in Lituania (or one of the other two then-Soviet Baltic republics) and Armenia. Those are just two examples that I know of, but I am certain there is more.

What you saw on American TV i.e. the Coup and the Dissolvement of the USSR, were the last straws. The Coup of August 1991 was, to use a metaphore, a drowning man grasping at the last straw to stay afloat.

This secession talk is stupid and I will not take back these words. I have said this forever. We broke up into our own little sects immediately after RP hung up his gloves shortly after RNC in 2008, exactly as I predicted. I suggested a mass vote for a Libertarian party as I felt we were given that choice in all 50 states, and was met with complains and people deciding to vote for anyone and everyone.

This board, the further back the 2008 elections go, is getting more and more fractured. Some fantasize about RP climbing up in the ring for round 3 in 2012, some masturbate to Jesse Ventura's photo and I really can't any other way describe this. Some want somebody else and others still want some one else.

If you people want to "secede", do so by voting one third party. The accent is on ONE. I don't care if you don't believe in Jesus. If Constitution party wants to get out of Iraq and back the dollar by gold in the name of Jahweh, for God's sake, let them. Vote for them. Or vote for LP, or for Jesse Ventura, or for Captain fucking cangaroo. But vote for ONE guy and don't complain that he is not some perfect messiah who descended from the clouds above. But all of us voting for random bunch of guys we all get nothing.

Divided we FALL. United we STAND. And we are divided, exactly what I've predicted. We have no leader don't you understand this? If we can't even decide whom we all will back up, what the hell are we going to do with a state X, even if we assume that Washington just lets us have it?

Ron Paul supporters, get your collective head out of your ass, get rid of this romantic idealistic bullshit about seceeding that your head is filled with. You will not seceed. Even if you do decide to take arms, most of you won't, because secession talk is that of fat lonely keyboard warriors, the exact caricature of John Q. RonPaulSupporter that media has manufactured, you will get your asses whooped.

Instead, like I said before 1000000 times, find a leader. Not an icon or a religion, like Obama, but a true no-nonsense leader that actually wants to win, not, like Ron Paul, who ho-hums about the burning house known to the most as the United States.

We are ameless chaotic energy and we will stay that way until we get a leader, not abstract romantic bullshit idea that we won't even follow through.

I really do believe this idea of taking over the Republican party from neocons when Rush and Hannity are the loudest voices in GOP radio sounds like a Pipe dream. I know the leaders elite truly have sold themselves on the idea of reform, but how long will that take?

Like Akus, I believe the time is right for some sort of unorthodox action. There are a lot of RP supporters, but there are also many others who have no idea what he stands for, how he is different, and what his republicanism means. How can reform work over time when the neocons are kicking RP styled republicans out of offices and desire to have nothing to do with us.

Vote Libertarian or get behind a third movement or independent movement.

If the reform idea is working, could someone please post a chart showing the rate of Republican reform? Do we just have 3 or 4 politicians here and there?
Will the lamestream media even care to notice the reformed Republicans?

 

[literatim]

I really do believe this idea of taking over the Republican party from neocons when Rush and Hannity are the loudest voices in GOP radio sounds like a Pipe dream. I know the leaders elite truly have sold themselves on the idea of reform, but how long will that take?

Like Akus, I believe the time is right for some sort of unorthodox action. There are a lot of RP supporters, but there are also many others who have no idea what he stands for, how he is different, and what his republicanism means. How can reform work over time when the neocons are kicking RP styled republicans out of offices and desire to have nothing to do with us.

Vote Libertarian or get behind a third movement or independent movement.

If the reform idea is working, could someone please post a chart showing the rate of Republican reform? Do we just have 3 or 4 politicians here and there?
Will the lamestream media even care to notice the reformed Republicans?

If you think the idea of taking over a party is daunting, just imagine how daunting it is to win a whole country. There are more Ron Paul Republicans within the Republican power structure than there are elected third party candidates.

 

[tremendoustie]

How should the secession be done; by voting or by decree?

By individual choice.

 

[tremendoustie]

Yeah, I guess I should have said "many people" rather than "most." Religious indoctrination is a terrible thing.

Don't be condescending. There are many people who believe in God for entirely rational reasons.

 

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

Don't be condescending. There are many people who believe in God for entirely rational reasons.

You know who Rothbard called Proto-Austrians? They were highly religious and were called the School of Salamanca. Nothing wrong with people who are religious whatsoever. It's when they start to use the State to push their agenda and when they violate Natural Law is when I have a problem with religion.

 

[federalistnp]

If you think the idea of taking over a party is daunting, just imagine how daunting it is to win a whole country. There are more Ron Paul Republicans within the Republican power structure than there are elected third party candidates.

I can accept that and live with the fact that for the word to get out the foot will have to do more work.

Besides Glenn Beck, and always see to miss when RP is on, no one else on Fox gives RP the time of day. It seems that CNN and the lib stations give him more time than Fox.

It's time we assault all the radio shows, Hannity and O'Reilly and demand that Ron Paul be on one of their shows soon.