Push For Secession If Healthcare Passes?

[PreDeadMan]

if a marriage doesn't work out you go your separate ways with a divorce....same thing with states seceding from the union when the government becomes evil and tyrannical see ya later alligator we wont take your bullcrap tyranny anymore government !

 

[Akus]

How many died when the Soviet Union broke up?

Actually, quite a few. Soviet troops had to be deployed in Lituania (or one of the other two then-Soviet Baltic republics) and Armenia. Those are just two examples that I know of, but I am certain there is more.

What you saw on American TV i.e. the Coup and the Dissolvement of the USSR, were the last straws. The Coup of August 1991 was, to use a metaphore, a drowning man grasping at the last straw to stay afloat.

This secession talk is stupid and I will not take back these words. I have said this forever. We broke up into our own little sects immediately after RP hung up his gloves shortly after RNC in 2008, exactly as I predicted. I suggested a mass vote for a Libertarian party as I felt we were given that choice in all 50 states, and was met with complains and people deciding to vote for anyone and everyone.

This board, the further back the 2008 elections go, is getting more and more fractured. Some fantasize about RP climbing up in the ring for round 3 in 2012, some masturbate to Jesse Ventura's photo and I really can't any other way describe this. Some want somebody else and others still want some one else.

If you people want to "secede", do so by voting one third party. The accent is on ONE. I don't care if you don't believe in Jesus. If Constitution party wants to get out of Iraq and back the dollar by gold in the name of Jahweh, for God's sake, let them. Vote for them. Or vote for LP, or for Jesse Ventura, or for Captain fucking cangaroo. But vote for ONE guy and don't complain that he is not some perfect messiah who descended from the clouds above. But all of us voting for random bunch of guys we all get nothing.

Divided we FALL. United we STAND. And we are divided, exactly what I've predicted. We have no leader don't you understand this? If we can't even decide whom we all will back up, what the hell are we going to do with a state X, even if we assume that Washington just lets us have it?

Ron Paul supporters, get your collective head out of your ass, get rid of this romantic idealistic bullshit about seceeding that your head is filled with. You will not seceed. Even if you do decide to take arms, most of you won't, because secession talk is that of fat lonely keyboard warriors, the exact caricature of John Q. RonPaulSupporter that media has manufactured, you will get your asses whooped.

Instead, like I said before 1000000 times, find a leader. Not an icon or a religion, like Obama, but a true no-nonsense leader that actually wants to win, not, like Ron Paul, who ho-hums about the burning house known to the most as the United States.

We are ameless chaotic energy and we will stay that way until we get a leader, not abstract romantic bullshit idea that we won't even follow through.

 

[tremendoustie]

Independent states would make America stronger. People deserve to have the freedom to live in a state which matches their preferences, and competition for businesses, consumers, and residents would improve everyone's game, and limit government abuse.

If we let the federal government keep the wheel, they will steer us to the bottom of the sea.

 

[tremendoustie]

We are ameless chaotic energy and we will stay that way until we get a leader, not abstract romantic bullshit idea that we won't even follow through.

Do you mean a political leader, a civil disobedience/agorist leader, or a leader willing to use violence (I hope not the latter). A leader must lead in a certain effort. What do you imagine this effort might be?

 

[Akus]

Do you mean a political leader, a civil disobedience/agorist leader, or a leader willing to use violence (I hope not the latter)?

I said what I said. If you want to twist this into some idiotic extreme, you only prove my point for me. If you are not clear about what I mean, reread what I posted. I can only explain the plain and the obvious in so many ways and I really don't feel like smashing my forehead against some brick wall hoping it gives way.

 

[tremendoustie]

I said what I said. If you want to twist this into some idiotic extreme, you only prove my point for me. If you are not clear about what I mean, reread what I posted. I can only explain the plain and the obvious in so many ways and I really don't feel like smashing my forehead against some brick wall hoping it gives way.

You mentioned voting third party. Would this leader you look for then be a third party candidate, which we would all rally around?

 

[erowe1]

I still haven't seen anyone give any reason why they're against secession. Seriously, I don't understand. Why oppose it? As far as I can tell the main thing in the way of it happening is all the people with that kind of knee jerk reaction against it with no actual reasons. Is it based on some kind of modern redefinition of patriotism or something?

 

[AuH20]

You want to pick up a gun and start shooting people? Wanna be a hero?

Do you understand the what WAR is? Have you ever been a real soldier in a real war? Rebellion and secession are beautiful words, but that is where their beauty ends......

Wouldn't you rather go down fighting on your two legs as opposed to your subjugated on your knees? It's readily apparent that the latter scenario is rapidly coming to a town near all of of us. There isn't a choice anymore, no matter how we delude ourselves with the political process. I say let the Feds carpet bomb areas of seceded states. In fact, I double dare them. Let them unveil their true face.

 

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

We got the state sovereignty movement going with all of those states that declared it in the last year or two. If the health care mandates pass, is it time to show teeth behind the declarations? Is it time to call our state congresspeople and ask them to put forth a resolution to secede from the union for real? I don't think the federal government got the message yet.

We cannot secede from an unalienable, self evident truth. Our only hope is to return to the original natural law established by our Christian Founding Fathers. This natural law superceded and still supercedes all legal precedents, past traditions, and future events yet to occur.

 

[LDA]

I don't want to secede because I live in North Carolina and I don't want to have to live in Jesusland, which is exactly what any southern state would become. If secession involved actually having full individual freedom, then sure, that's a fine idea.

Our only hope is to return to the original natural law established by our Christian Founding Fathers.

Uh, our founding fathers were not all Christian. If you read what was being written at the time, they wanted to make sure there was no state endorsed religion.

 

[AuH20]

I don't want to secede because I live in North Carolina and I don't want to have to live in Jesusland, which is exactly what any southern state would become. If secession involved actually having full individual freedom, then sure, that's a fine idea.

I think you watch too many movies.

 

[tremendoustie]

We cannot secede from an unalienable, self evident truth. Our only hope is to return to the original natural law established by our Christian Founding Fathers. This natural law superceded and still supercedes all legal precedents, past traditions, and future events yet to occur.

I agree, except that natural law was not established by the Founding Fathers, it was only recognized by them, and that only partially. It was established by God.

 

[LDA]

You do know that fundamentalists (which control the GOP) want to force their beliefs on the rest of us, right? They've attempted to take away freedoms time and time again, and been successful many times.

 

[AuH20]

You do know that fundamentalists (which control the GOP) want to force their beliefs on the rest of us, right? They've attempted to take away freedoms time and time again, and been successful many times.

what beliefs? Mandatory church attendance on sunday? non-Christian birth names deemed illegal? where are you going with this? Besides their objection to gay marriage, I can't think of anything substantive.

BTW the fundamentalists do not control the GOP. In fact, they laugh at the fundies behind the scenes. It's well-documented.

 

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

That is no longer true

if a marriage doesn't work out you go your separate ways with a divorce....same thing with states seceding from the union when the government becomes evil and tyrannical see ya later alligator we wont take your bullcrap tyranny anymore government !

We really have no place to go. So, our only recourse is to make the government a better one. The process of divorce in The Declaration of Independence and the process of remarriage to a more perfect government in The Constitution established the people as the owner of all property while the government served them as a necessary tyranny.
It's like the first sisters who started the Church after the Lord's resurrection. Why did they go out and gather the scattered disciples to appoint them as apostles over their own heads? Well, they would have never have done so if their reason for doing so was to make themselves behave responsibly. They did this for the sake of happiness and joy.
Once the natural law is established as a self evident and unalienable truth, there is no further need to manipulate the people anywhere. The only solution them then is to return to the original natural law.

 

[LDA]

what beliefs? Mandatory church attendance on sunday? non-Christian birth names deemed illegal? where are you going with this? Besides their objection to gay marriage, I can't think of anything substantive.

BTW the fundamentalists do not control the GOP. In fact, they laugh at the fundies behind the scenes. It's well-documented.

Gay marriage, drug prohibition, laws that say you can't buy or do certain things on Sunday, the belief that we should "defend Israel" because they're "God's chosen people," the idea that Jesus is coming back which almost provides an incentive to bring about the "end times," abstinence-only sex ed (totally irresponsible), the pervasive attitude that sex/nudity are things that should only be discussed behind closed doors, opposition to teaching science in science classrooms, support for teaching fairy tales in science classrooms, opposition to abortion. I'm sure I could think of some others.

Point is, if you want a free society, you can't expect people to live up to the moral standards established by your religion...especially when that religion is based off of ancient desert scribblings that aren't relevant to most people. Freedom means being able to do what you want as long as it doesn't hurt other people. I understand that not all Christians want to restrict freedom, but many do, and those are the people I'm worried about running government in the south.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

We really have no place to go. So, our only recourse is to make the government a better one. The process of divorce in The Declaration of Independence and the process of remarriage to a more perfect government in The Constitution established the people as the owner of all property while the government served them as a necessary tyranny.
It's like the first sisters who started the Church after the Lord's resurrection. Why did they go out and gather the scattered disciples to appoint them as apostles over their own heads? Well, they would have never have done so if their reason for doing so was to make themselves behave responsibly. They did this for the sake of happiness and joy.
Once the natural law is established as a self evident and unalienable truth, there is no further need to manipulate the people anywhere. The only solution them then is to return to the original natural law.

The only way this could work is if the majority of the people wanted it. It seems to me that the majority of the people want a warfare/welfare State, not natural law.

 

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

Freedom for the sake of freedom is no better than slavery.

what beliefs? Mandatory church attendance on sunday? non-Christian birth names deemed illegal? where are you going with this? Besides their objection to gay marriage, I can't think of anything substantive.

BTW the fundamentalists do not control the GOP. In fact, they laugh at the fundies behind the scenes. It's well-documented.

Freedom as it is with equality is a prerequisite for happiness. It is the truth that set us free, not the freeth that set us true. The latter contention is just emotional madness.

 

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

The only way this could work is if the majority of the people wanted it. It seems to me that the majority of the people want a warfare/welfare State, not natural law.

It isn't a matter of want. A natural law is the truth and that is what sets us free. Even death can't escape this proposition. A king's conscience can't ignore it. If it does, then he isn't deemed a king at all but a tyrant.
And what is this truth? The soul of a lowly trespassing prostitute and the soul of a highest king on the throne were created equal with the same exact business agenda for happiness!

 

[erowe1]

Uh, our founding fathers were not all Christian. If you read what was being written at the time, they wanted to make sure there was no state endorsed religion.

No they didn't. They even put a clause in the Constitution explicitly prohibiting Congress from interfering in the states having established religions, which most of the states that ratified the Constitution had at the time (i.e., the 1st amendment).