Police Officer: "Trust Me, Ferguson Changed Everything"

[Brett85]

Murder has a specific meaning. You're being hyperbolic here. Killing enemy soldiers is not murder.

I was going to post a reply, but this is just ridiculous. I hope you all have fun with your homicidal fantasies of killing cops. The liberty movement is never going anywhere politically if the liberty movement is represented by the hardcore extremists posting in this thread.

 

[Christian Liberty]

Yeah, you would think. Some of the comments in this thread are probably bordering on illegal activity, at least if it went a little further and a specific threat against a specific police officer was made. The thread should probably get deleted before the Department of Homeland Security or some other government agency gets a hold of it.

Ironically, arresting anyone for anything they posted on this thread would likely at least in part prove said posts right. The NSA has probably already seen it. I'm not really sure what they could do about it.

BTW: This is the video I was talking about https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cElTyqJkMEw

 

[Christian Liberty]

I must have missed something somewhere because I was not aware we were speaking of plugging someone indiscriminately. Perhaps I assumed too much, assumed wrongly, or just misunderstood something key. I am speaking of holding police mortally accountable for the crimes they commit and not for stropping in their squad cars in some abandoned alley.

I thought the implication was that simply being a cop is just cause for vigilante execution, that was what I was arguing against. I was not arguing that it is NEVER OK to use vigilante justice against a cop or that one's crimes could never raise to a level where that would be OK.

If they had no basis, they would not exist.

They exist because of God. That's a claim I can't prove but that's the assumption I would operate under. I'm not sure if debating it would be helpful or a distraction.

That is tantamount to making excuses for their behavior.

Not an excuse, just a mitigating factor.

I don't recall anyone saying any such thing. Could you show where?

tod evans very clearly implied such. I thought you were to, but since you are denying it, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

The deeper nature of the crime is the same, the only differences residing in the more superficial nature and the degree of the offense. Handing out parking tickets is, at its deepest roots, no different than murdering an unarmed suspect by shooting him in the back. But to see how this is the case, one must be able to strip away all arbitrary superficialities and get to the absolute core principle at work. In this case, it is the fact that one human being is imposing an arbitrarily contrived requirement upon another. It is done without consent and no other demonstrable authority. That is the core nature of the crime and it comes into play no matter what the other elements of the act in question may happen to be.

Do you believe all crimes deserve execution? Or do some crimes warrant lesser penalties?

And that is so precisely because you are attempting to judge based on superficialities such as degree. See beyond the surface appearances and all of a sudden clarity is abundant. Does a cop have authority to blow a child's face halfway off with a grenade? We will call that one a "no". Does he have the authority to write a parking ticket? That, too, is "no". The common element here is action taken without consent or other authority. The rest is windows dressing, in a sense.

I think the distinction between theft and murder is more than "window dressing" frankly. Yes, both are bad, but they aren't equal.

 

[Christian Liberty]

Murder has a specific meaning. You're being hyperbolic here. Killing enemy soldiers is not murder.

The sad thing is, this could just as easily have been written by Chris Kyle. If I didn't know you or what you were talking about, I'd assume this post was about Iraqi soldiers. Is this mindset really any different?

 

[tod evans]

tod evans very clearly implied such. I thought you were to, but since you are denying it, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

I take umbrage at this misquotation where you claim that I advocate the indiscriminate murder of kops.

You sir are a liar and a spin artist!

Here is a relevant and accurate quotation from earlier this evening;

But DO NOT paint me with the brush of promoting murder on the internet!

Stop your slander immediately!

 

[tod evans]

Some of the comments in this thread are probably bordering on illegal activity,

The only comments in this thread that border on illegal are the direct and intentional mischaracterizations set forth by you and FF of very clearly articulated points.

If either of you young men are fractionally as intelligent as you claim you would reread your slanderous and misguided posts, edit them accordingly and then apologize for your temerity.

 

[osan]

OK, so I believe we have cleared this issue up a bit. Nobody here, to my understanding, us suggesting we go out and slaughter all police. What seems to be the consensus us that police should be held strictly accountable for their deeds and that all people hold equal authority, if not the physical means, to act as task-master on that point.

My original point was that the grenade episode really gets under my fur, especially after seeing the photos of the child and I stand by my opinion that ever last one of those good-for-nothing cops should be experiencing equal horror and agony, at the very least. For me, such crimes are unforgivable. I expect nobody else to share my position on the matter, though all are welcome.

 

[tod evans]

OK, so I believe we have cleared this issue up a bit. Nobody here, to my understanding, us suggesting we go out and slaughter all police. What seems to be the consensus us that police should be held strictly accountable for their deeds and that all people hold equal authority, if not the physical means, to act as task-master on that point.

My original point was that the grenade episode really gets under my fur, especially after seeing the photos of the child and I stand by my opinion that ever last one of those good-for-nothing cops should be experiencing equal horror and agony, at the very least. For me, such crimes are unforgivable. I expect nobody else to share my position on the matter, though all are welcome.

As I've stated earlier, baby maiming kops deserve retribution, as do all of their superiors who actively or tacitly encourage such behavior...

I personally understand and could readily forgive anyone who sought retribution for such behavior...

For a couple of the denser members here; The above statements are not to be construed as encouraging criminal behavior.

 

[A Son of Liberty]

That is tantamount to making excuses for their behavior.

The deeper nature of the crime is the same, the only differences residing in the more superficial nature and the degree of the offense. Handing out parking tickets is, at its deepest roots, no different than murdering an unarmed suspect by shooting him in the back. But to see how this is the case, one must be able to strip away all arbitrary superficialities and get to the absolute core principle at work. In this case, it is the fact that one human being is imposing an arbitrarily contrived requirement upon another. It is done without consent and no other demonstrable authority. That is the core nature of the crime and it comes into play no matter what the other elements of the act in question may happen to be.

Is a crime a crime if the social paradigm doesn't recognize it as such? Of course it is. "Crimes", the unprovoked violations of the life, liberty and property of others, like the principles from which we deduce them, are objective and self-evident. To an extent, I'm undermining my own argument here, but we have to recognize the power of social conditioning - you and I may have been born sovereign, but from the moment we could understand language and begin to reason, we were inculcated into the "authority" paradigm; Empire, as you eloquently refer to it. We had to be "born again", accepting the truth of human nature and interrelations. And now when we speak of that truth, the vast majority of those around us look at us as though we're from another planet, such is the power of our perverse social paradigm. Plato's freed slave returned to the cave and told those still chained to the wall of what he'd seen outside, and they thought he was mad. Acknowledging self-evident truths isn't a perilous journey from bondage in cave, granted. But upending everything one has been taught to accept as true is no walk in the park, either, and most people haven't made the effort... hell, most people don't even know there is anything to upend! Fish don't know they're wet, and all.

So, yes... they are criminals in that they in nearly all cases violate the life, liberty and property of innocent people. But, yes... they are little more than children, without a developed ability to reason... they have no reason to reason - everything that they've been taught from the moment they began to understand language leads them to believe that they are doing "good", and the vast majority of people in our society stand behind them, and tell them it is so. To kill such a person - outside of self-defense - is tantamount to killing an idiot, or a child.

Murder has a specific meaning. You're being hyperbolic here. Killing enemy soldiers is not murder.

The only morally justifiable killing is in self-defense.

 

[jbauer]

Events like Ferguson don't ignite in a vacuum. Maybe it's time to do 'something different'.



Shut up and look in the mirror, pal. By the time a few people act up because they're sick of your shit, almost everyone affected is sick of your shit and looking for an excuse.



Keep repeating that lie, bud. Maybe someone will be mentally deficient enough to believe your alternate reality.

Nobody is alleging that Brown shot anything at the cop but dirty looks and rude comments. Are we scared of those things now?

So, the title says, Police Officer: "Trust Me...", and said officer proceeds to tell one or more major and obvious lies. I think there's a lesson for us in that somewhere.

I think he's talking about case number 2

 

[Pericles]

Murder has a specific meaning. You're being hyperbolic here. Killing enemy soldiers while engaged in a declared conflict is not murder.

FIFY

 

[Christian Liberty]

I take umbrage at this misquotation where you claim that I advocate the indiscriminate murder of kops.

You sir are a liar and a spin artist!

Here is a relevant and accurate quotation from earlier this evening;



Stop your slander immediately!

tod, I don't doubt that the NSA is stupid enough to not realize what you are doing (and that's a good thing) but I am not. See the exchange below.

TC said that those who advocate killing police are just as bad as the cops themselves (or something to that effect.) You replied:

I had to jump on this too...

Are you fucking serious? Kops are the foot soldiers in the war(s) waged on the citizenry.

Where you raised to lick the boots of your oppressor?

Shameful!

Now, were we to take this post alone, we could perhaps say you were talking about certain cops or certain types of cops. But I wrote this:

There is some space between "Licking the boots of your oppressor" and "supporting cop killing whenever and wherever it occurs."

See how explicitly clear I made this? Your reply:

Not in my world.

So, obviously you don't lick the boots of your oppressor. So either you do in fact support cop-killing "whenever and wherever it occurs" or you didn't actually read my post. Which one is it?

Either way, I am not "slandering" you.

Osan, in reply to my same post above, says:

Not on Earth. But please, describe this space, where it exists and under what conditions; how we recognize it and what we do when we are in it.

Would you say there is "some space" between shooting an attacker dead and laying down to let him slit your throat and rape you as you slowly bleed out?

Then Osan said this:

OK, so I believe we have cleared this issue up a bit. Nobody here, to my understanding, us suggesting we go out and slaughter all police. What seems to be the consensus us that police should be held strictly accountable for their deeds and that all people hold equal authority, if not the physical means, to act as task-master on that point.

My original point was that the grenade episode really gets under my fur, especially after seeing the photos of the child and I stand by my opinion that ever last one of those good-for-nothing cops should be experiencing equal horror and agony, at the very least. For me, such crimes are unforgivable. I expect nobody else to share my position on the matter, though all are welcome.

Both osan and tod evans had given me reason to believe that that was what they were advocating. i don't have a problem with holding specific cops accountable for the actions they've committed, whatever that may mean for you. But I think the "holding them accountable" should be proportionate to what they did, if at all possible. If its just money and time, I would say err on the side of letting it alone rather than taking a life, if those are your options. A cop strip searches your wife in the street? Yeah, I could see violent reaction there...

 

[Brett85]

When I was criticized for making a completely non controversial statement that cops killing and abusing civilians and civilians murdering cops are equally wrong, it was pretty clear to me what those who replied to my comment were saying. That was confirmed the longer the thread went on. It's a little late to back away from that now.

 

[tod evans]

So, obviously you don't lick the boots of your oppressor. So either you do in fact support cop-killing "whenever and wherever it occurs" or you didn't actually read my post. Which one is it?
Either way, I am not "slandering" you.

What you "believe" is irrelevant, what you type isn't.

Your interpretation of what I type is just that, your interpretation....

You and I have been down this road before where you voice your interpretation and then attribute it to me as my words.

This is slander.

It's irresponsible, manipulative and childish.

 

[DFF]

The same people who we used to count on for support, the good, law abiding general public, are now reluctant to trust us.

Geewiz, now why could this be...?

 

[tod evans]

Both osan and tod evans had given me reason to believe that that was what they were advocating.

What specifically are you trying to attribute to osan and myself?

"That" is not descriptive enough for a person making accusations that could possibly hold the weight of investigation or even indictment.

 

[Christian Liberty]

When I was criticized for making a completely non controversial statement that cops killing and abusing civilians and civilians murdering cops are equally wrong,

I think those particular abusive cops are worse. Its one thing for civilians to do awful things. Its another thing for a cop to do them with all the power of the US Government behind them. So no, its not non-controversial.

it was pretty clear to me what those who replied to my comment were saying. That was confirmed the longer the thread went on. It's a little late to back away from that now.

This is correct. Its insane that tod is accusing me of slandering him when what he said is so obvious in this case. I think he may be ashamed of it and doesn't want to admit he was wrong.

 

[Christian Liberty]

What you "believe" is irrelevant, what you type isn't.

Your interpretation of what I type is just that, your interpretation....

You and I have been down this road before where you voice your interpretation and then attribute it to me as my words.

This is slander.

It's irresponsible, manipulative and childish.

tod, you really need to learn to read. All the information is quoted in post #92. Either you are a liar or you are stupid. Which is it?

 

[tod evans]

tod, you really need to learn to read. All the information is quoted in post #92. Either you are a liar or you are stupid. Which is it?

Here's quotes for you,in context, practice your own advice.

"Militarization" commonly refers to the gear used...

The attitude taught to, and the behaviors fostered by the street cops superiors are what I blame out of control kops on..

The kops are at fault, no doubt, but I do not absolve their superiors or the media......

Kops hiding........


Good!

I had to jump on this too...

Are you fucking serious? Kops are the foot soldiers in the war(s) waged on the citizenry.

Where you raised to lick the boots of your oppressor?

Shameful!

Not in my world.

"Radical" is believing that the people who have openly declared war on you are your enemy huh?

Maybe you consider yourself one of the "warriors" instead of one who has had war waged against him?

I sincerely hope, for your sake, that you're not subjected to the very ugly reality of which we speak....

Mental frailty isn't an excuse I accept from countrymen who have declared war on me and mine.

I too consider myself a Christian, one who freely outs the Judas's in our midsts, one who despises the money lenders and tries to do the right thing..

To me the right thing in the case of "Just-Us" department employees who have declared open warfare on the rest of us is to pray for their putrid souls as I fight them with every weapon I can muster.

Do not make excuses for evil.

I strongly advocate every man stand against those who declare war on us "with every weapon he can muster"....In your case that may be your mouth and intellect, in anothers case it may be with a .308, while others may choose to run the offenders out of town...

Advocating that one "shoot cops" would run afoul of the TOS here on RPF but that doesn't mean that I can't point out the obvious or even state that I understand righteous anger.

Were I asked to stand in judgement of Mr. Frein I would entertain a defense of "He needed killin' " in relation to the dead kop...

Unlike society at large I view members of the "Just-Us" department as sub-human, on par with rabid dogs and other feral creatures that have no place in polite society....

Quit embellishing!

"Using violence" and "murder" are two distinctly different things...

Here's your original sentiment in it's entirety;



I fully understand folks who would seek retribution for maimed children, hell I understand folks who seek retribution for detention and/or imprisonment for victimless crime.

But DO NOT paint me with the brush of promoting murder on the internet!

Understanding and forgiving those who opt to murder the offending "Just-Us" department employees would be an accurate portrayal...

I take umbrage at this misquotation where you claim that I advocate the indiscriminate murder of kops.

You sir are a liar and a spin artist!

Here is a relevant and accurate quotation from earlier this evening;



Stop your slander immediately!

The only comments in this thread that border on illegal are the direct and intentional mischaracterizations set forth by you and FF of very clearly articulated points.

If either of you young men are fractionally as intelligent as you claim you would reread your slanderous and misguided posts, edit them accordingly and then apologize for your temerity.

As I've stated earlier, baby maiming kops deserve retribution, as do all of their superiors who actively or tacitly encourage such behavior...

I personally understand and could readily forgive anyone who sought retribution for such behavior...

For a couple of the denser members here; The above statements are not to be construed as encouraging criminal behavior.

What you "believe" is irrelevant, what you type isn't.

Your interpretation of what I type is just that, your interpretation....

You and I have been down this road before where you voice your interpretation and then attribute it to me as my words.

This is slander.

It's irresponsible, manipulative and childish.

[edit]

I forgot one more unanswered question from earlier;

What specifically are you trying to attribute to osan and myself?

"That" is not descriptive enough for a person making accusations that could possibly hold the weight of investigation or even indictment.

 

[Christian Liberty]

You and osan have both implied that it is justified to kill any cop at any time for any reason. Both of you implied it when you both disagreed with me when I said there is some space between licking the boots of your oppressor and supporting cop-killing whenever and wherever it occurs.

tod, you're better than this. Come on. I don't care what position you take on this issue, but I do care that you are lying about that which is in plain sight for us all to see.