**Official** Trayvon Martin thread

[angelatc]

Since when is following considered stalking ... When you have 911 on the end of a phone and are making a report and also asking for assistance.

OOPS !!
That doesn't sit well with your stalking claim, does it ?

He was asking for assistance because he was being stalked. Works fine for me.

 

[MelissaWV]

Since when is following considered stalking ... When you have 911 on the end of a phone and are making a report and also asking for assistance.

OOPS !!
That doesn't sit well with your stalking claim, does it ?

In all fairness, if someone approaches me at night who has been following me around, I am not going to pause to try to ascertain with whom they are speaking. I am not even going to trust that they are actually on the phone. I am going to get to a safer area before calling the police myself. If the aforementioned is "asking questions" in the same sort of tone he's using on the 9-1-1 recording, you bet your butt I am not standing around in the dark to have a chitchat with them. I am getting my "suspicious" self home.

And yeah, when I told my parents what happened, the word "stalking" might come into it.

Just as people are saying Zimmerman did not know anything for certain about Martin (Martin could have had a gun in that hoodie, or he could have been a boxer, or he could have been a drug dealer or or or), Martin could not know anything about Zimmerman, who was just a weird guy following him around in his car.

 

[jmdrake]

Sorry, but Zimmerman's lawyer said that SYG does not apply. They're going with a self-defense claim, not SYG.

Thanks for the info. +rep. Link below for the Google challenged.

http://www.clintonlindsay.com/2012/...ayvon-martins-killing-says-zimmermans-lawyer/

 

[RonPaulMall]

But the guy was walking back to his car ... ??? ... on the ground on his back. So he got punched, then turned around, and then got knocked to the ground? It really doesn't make any sense.

How about he was walking back to his car and he encountered Martin, and was attacked. Or he encountered Martin, they exchanged words, he was walking back to his car, Martin started yelling at him anew, and Zimmerman turned around and was attacked. It could easily make sense. It only doesn't make sense if you construct your own scenario based on the pitiful scrapes of information being leaked and then insist things couldn't have happened any other way.

 

[angelatc]

I find it hard to believe you have ever read the Florida statute's concerning stalking. Most stalking statutes I know of require an element of an ongoing pattern of behavior or repeated activity to trigger. Following somebody for ten minutes for a specific purpose wouldn't qualify. But I'm honest enough to admit I have never read Florida's stalking statute or the case law surrounding it. If you have evidence that proves you point- provide it.

It was posted in another thread.

 

[MelissaWV]

Thanks for the info. +rep. Link below for the Google challenged.

http://www.clintonlindsay.com/2012/...ayvon-martins-killing-says-zimmermans-lawyer/

FYI... they were going with SYG up until a fairly recent (yesterday? day before?) interview.

They must have actually read the law and seen that it was a stretch.

 

[coastie]

Sorry, but Zimmerman's lawyer said that SYG does not apply. They're going with a self-defense claim, not SYG.

Yep-because they'd lose. Well, his lawyer agrees with those of us who have half a brain here.

 

[MelissaWV]

How about he was walking back to his car and he encountered Martin, and was attacked. Or he encountered Martin, they exchanged words, he was walking back to his car, Martin started yelling at him anew, and Zimmerman turned around and was attacked. It could easily make sense. It only doesn't make sense if you construct your own scenario based on the pitiful scrapes of information being leaked and then insist things couldn't have happened any other way.

Well I could do like you, and just make it up out of information... that doesn't exist at all.

 

[azxd]

Yes, and usually having a strange explanation for something results in a) a tox screening (routine, not done here), b) interviewing witnesses (not all were interviewed, and some were coached/led according to reports), c) forensics to determine what on earth happened, d) photographic documentation of injuries and hospitalizations, e) if something does not add up, an arrest, since the person admittedly shot someone else and the details do not totally add up. It's a very strange case.

Thanks to the media, though, it's not going to die after the April 10th grand jury convenes. There will also be those who have a dog in this hunt for some reason. It's depressing that, even after there IS a grand jury hearing scheduled, people are still crying for blood. They should be asking for justice, whatever that winds up being.

Agreed, but some here have already had a trial in their heads and developed a verdict.

 

[jmdrake]

Also the author of the "Stand your ground" law says it doesn't apply in this case.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/20/v-fullstory/2703579/state-senator-calls-for-hearings.html

“They got the goods on him. They need to prosecute whoever shot the kid,” said Peaden, a Crestview Republican who sponsored the deadly force law in 2005. “He has no protection under my law.”

Peaden and Baxley, R-Ocala, say their law is a self-defense act. It says law-abiding people have no duty to retreat from an attacker and can meet “force with force.” Nowhere does it say that a person has a right to confront another.

The 911 tapes strongly suggest Zimmerman overstepped his bounds, they say, when the Sanford neighborhood crime-watch captain said he was following Trayvon and appeared to ignore a police request to stay away.

“The guy lost his defense right then,” said Peaden. “When he said ‘I’m following him,’ he lost his defense.”

Peaden and Baxley said they didn’t know all the facts of the case, so their interpretations of what happened could change if new information arises during the investigation.

 

[BamaAla]

Strange how so many people want to determine guilt or innocence without all of the facts. Myself, I'll wait for the facts before I make up my mind.

Ain't it though! It's all happening in the strangest way too. You've got a former convict declaring guilt, the strongest anti-authority poster on the board advocating that Zimmerman cower in obedience when commanded by a telephone operator, and a woman a few posts above excoriating a guy for pushing a view despite not being at the scene when in fact she has been a party to the exact folly.

As the coon-ass above me said, you're best served to hold your horses. Do you not remember another high profile Florida case recently in which everyone KNEW the accused was guilty?

 

[jmdrake]

Agreed, but some here have already had a trial in their heads and developed a verdict.

Some have tried and convicted Trayvon Martin in their head and declared him a "perp". The rest of us are just asking that Zimmerman be charged and there be a trial.

 

[azxd]

That's not true. His CCW permit contains that clause. ANd last time I checked, stalking is illegal.

I find it hard to believe you have ever read the Florida statute's concerning stalking. Most stalking statutes I know of require an element of an ongoing pattern of behavior or repeated activity to trigger. Following somebody for ten minutes for a specific purpose wouldn't qualify. But I'm honest enough to admit I have never read Florida's stalking statute or the case law surrounding it. If you have evidence that proves you point- provide it.

I also await a response to this.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

Sorry, but Zimmerman's lawyer said that SYG does not apply. They're going with a self-defense claim, not SYG.

Well, someone better inform the politicians and pundits that were attacking the SYG law today...

 

[azxd]

Yeah. Sometimes a kid walks to a store to get a soda and some skittles and is killed by someone claiming to be "protecting the neighborhood". Go figure.

And sometimes people intentionally distort things in a feeble attempt to claim moral superiority.

 

[coastie]

“They got the goods on him. They need to prosecute whoever shot the kid,” said Peaden, a Crestview Republican who sponsored the deadly force law in 2005. “He has no protection under my law.”

Peaden and Baxley, R-Ocala, say their law is a self-defense act. It says law-abiding people have no duty to retreat from an attacker and can meet “force with force.” Nowhere does it say that a person has a right to confront another.

The 911 tapes strongly suggest Zimmerman overstepped his bounds, they say, when the Sanford neighborhood crime-watch captain said he was following Trayvon and appeared to ignore a police request to stay away.

“The guy lost his defense right then,” said Peaden. “When he said ‘I’m following him,’ he lost his defense.”

Peaden and Baxley said they didn’t know all the facts of the case, so their interpretations of what happened could change if new information arises during the investigation.

Kewl, even the author of the law agrees with some of us. imagine that. And with that, i will leave this thread, tired of repeating myself, being affirmed(by the author(s) of the law, no less!), and then arguing with idiots again.

 

[specsaregood]

Agreed, but some here have already had a trial in their heads and developed a verdict.

I don't think anybody here has proposed that he be sent to prison without a fair trial or that they would necessarily vote to convict with all the information comes out. The unanimous position is that it should go to trial OR at the very least be heard by a grand jury.

 

[moo]

FYI... they were going with SYG up until a fairly recent (yesterday? day before?) interview.

They must have actually read the law and seen that it was a stretch.

The new self defense claim is trayvon reached for zimmerman's gun. It doesn't matter who started the fight

 

[RonPaulMall]

How Martin felt at the time about being stalked or not is what's important here. Well-it's important if your looking at this with logic, anyway.

Logic or emotion. If "how Martin felt" is what is important, cite me the statute that says so. Cite me that statute and case law in Florida that says what Zimmerman was doing constitutes "Stalking". These are specific legal terms you are throwing around. We don't charge people with crimes because Coastie thinks what somebody did is wrong. We charge people based on statutes. If the statute does not support the charge, the arrest is unlawful.

 

[azxd]

Which definition of "stalking" do you prefer?

How about Florida Law, being as that is where this happened.