**Official** Trayvon Martin thread

[angelatc]

Bias - Check

So I am right, but it doesn't count because the definition supports my position, or something?

 

[angelatc]

Is this based on a reporters speculation, or Zimmerman's lawyer ?

Citation please.

Good lord = have you read nothing on the case other than what's been posted in the thread? The only reason we know there is a Stand Your Ground law in Florida is because the authorities cited it incessantly.

 

[moo]

I was referencing those who claim Zimmerman murdered Martin ... Who are you speaking for ?

2 million people....and counting.

 

[UtahApocalypse]

Here is how I look at this.... Even if Trayvon was a drug dealing, gang banging, burglar who was casing a neighborhood Zimmerman lost Stand Your Ground, or ANY other Self Defense claim when he went after him. If Trayvon felt threatened by some big guy coming after him he would have the right to defend HIMSELF. Nobody saw the initial 'blows' get thrown. We will never know if Zimmerman grabbed Trayvon and Trayvon responded by kicking his ass until he was killed. We don't know if Trayvon got scared went after the guy kicking his ass and then being shot and killed.

What do we know? We know that Trayvon told his girlfriend on the phone that he was being followed and he was going to walk faster. We know sometime AFTER that a witness saw Trayvon on Zimmerman. We know at some point after that Trayvon was shot.

All of the actions that we do know would never have happened if Zimmerman did not follow him after being told not too.

I think that I am quite sure I know another thing..... If Zimmerman is not charged, convicted, and killed by death penalty we will see a east coast Florida "Rodney King" riot.

 

[angelatc]

Drug dealers and gangsters never call the police.

That's not true either.

 

[azxd]

Well, someone better inform the politicians and pundits that were attacking the SYG law today...

Gun grabbers use any opportunity being presented, and they twist situations to their advantage if possible.

They attempted the same when Congresswoman Giffords was shot, and they even tried to associate the shooting with the TEA Party, but you probably already know this.

 

[angelatc]

Good lord. Are honestly citing a freaking politician? You realize that it is almost unheard of for a politician to actually write a law? Other people draft them for them.

Prove that somebody else wrote the law.

 

[azxd]

I don't think anybody here has proposed that he be sent to prison without a fair trial or that they would necessarily vote to convict with all the information comes out. The unanimous position is that it should go to trial OR at the very least be heard by a grand jury.

This is true, but it's also obvious that bias exists with some, and they are formulating their conviction ... It started back on page one of this, or perhaps one of the other threads about this case when they (names not specified) made claim to the words murder, wanna be cop (cope hater bias) etcetera.

 

[angelatc]

Gun grabbers use any opportunity being presented, and they twist situations to their advantage if possible.

They attempted the same when Congresswoman Giffords was shot, and they even tried to associate the shooting with the TEA Party, but you probably already know this.

The problem here is that while you're right - the gun grabbers use every available opportunity given to them - that having a CCW doesn't automatically exonerate you in shootings. There's less respect for gun rights on the NRA forums than there is on these forums.

 

[RonPaulMall]

Well his lawyer who has a law degree and experience representing defendants in Florida says it doesn't apply.

I have a law degree. I've drafted statutes that made their way in to Code of Virginia. If that statement you made is actually from Zimmerman's lawyer, than Zimmerman needs new representation. The lawyer you quoted says that the stand your ground clause is mostly about being attacked in your home. That is so wrong it defies imagination that it could come from a criminal defense attorney's mouth. Being attacked in your home is covered by an entirely different clause, 776.013 (1). The Stand Your Ground 776.013 (3) was an amendment to the code passed in 2006 that goes beyond just a dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle. It applies whenever somebody is attacked "in any other place where he or she has a right to be".

 

[angelatc]

This is true, but it's also obvious that bias exists with some, and they are formulating their conviction ... It started back on page one of this, or perhaps one of the other threads about this case when they (names not specified) made claim to the words murder, wanna be cop (cope hater bias) etcetera.

Of course it started on page 1 - look at the title of the thread!

 

[angelatc]

I have a law degree. I've drafted statutes that made their way in to Code of Virginia. If that statement you made is actually from Zimmerman's lawyer, than Zimmerman needs new representation. The lawyer you quoted says that the stand your ground clause is mostly about being attacked in your home. That is so wrong it defies imagination that it could come from a criminal defense attorney's mouth. Being attacked in your home is covered by an entirely different clause, 776.013 (1). The Stand Your Ground 776.013 (3) was an amendment to the code passed in 2006 that goes beyond just a dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle. It applies whenever somebody is attacked "in any other place where he or she has a right to be".

But the intention of the stand your ground law was to strengthen self defense laws. Previously, a person could be charged with choosing to defend oneself when there was an option to flee. This ceased to be about that when Zimmerman got out of the car.

 

[jmdrake]

And sometimes people intentionally distort things in a feeble attempt to claim moral superiority.

Yeah. You have had a tendency to do that in this thread. Again:

Yeah. Sometimes a kid walks to a store to get a soda and some skittles and is killed by someone claiming to be "protecting the neighborhood". Go figure

Where is the distortion? Everyone agrees the kid went to the store to get soda and skittles. Everyone agrees he was killed by someone claiming to be "protecting the neighborhood". Those are the facts that cannot be gotten around just by your snarkiness. Oh yeah, and the kid was unarmed. That's a fact I left out. Sorry. Now who touched who first or who said what our who was walking where? That's all speculation. That's why we need trials or at the very least preliminary hearings. A kid is dead for no good reason. It can't be brushed aside just on a whim.

 

[azxd]

You denying that young black men have a resistance to calling the police? Or that 17 year olds aren't always the best judges of what to do?

Color of skin has nothing to do with this, unless you think it is imporant.

And 17,
Again,
If Martin was 100 yards from home, why didn't he go home ?

He might be alive if he had went home.
He might be alive if he hadn't took off running.

Many theories can be developed about life and death, but they're all just theories.

 

[azxd]

SYG is not an affirmative defense. It is an immunity from prosecution under Florida's justifiable use of force Chapter. SYG is the reason Zimmerman wouldn't be arrested in the first place, not something he'd raise as an affirmative defense at trial.

Well his lawyer who has a law degree and experience representing defendants in Florida says it doesn't apply.

I guess you both agree, huh !!

 

[RonPaulMall]

Prove that somebody else wrote the law.

Why? I'm telling you, as somebody who has worked in the profession, that politicians rarely write their own bills. This is fact. Bills are usually drafted by either outside interest groups and then maybe they are either amended by Legislative Assistants (or Legislative Aides as they are called in some states) or they are drafted by the Legislative Assistants and then amended after being scrutinized by outside interests. The only part of the process the politician himself is sure of participating in is the submitting of the finished bill. If you are lucky, they'll read it first. If you are really lucky, they'll fully understand it. But most times they just rely on what their LA tells them it means or what the lawyers working for the National Manufacturers Association or whatever group it may be assures them it means.

 

[jmdrake]

I was referencing those who claim Zimmerman murdered Martin ... Who are you speaking for ?

He should certainly be charged with murder. 2nd or 3rd degree murder perhaps, but it's still murder. I'm curious. Have you ever actually read a criminal indictment? It doesn't waffle about the claim being made by the state.

 

[MelissaWV]

Is this based on a reporters speculation, or Zimmerman's lawyer ?

Citation please.

Zimmerman's lawyer and his "best friend" have been unavoidably all over the news, and when asked if SYG would be part of the defense strategy, the lawyer said yes.

Today it is no longer part of the strategy.

If it applied, why would you not use it? Well, more accurately, if it applied and you could easily present that it applies, why wouldn't you use it?

George Zimmerman, the neighborhood watch crime captain who shot dead 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, originally told police in a written statement that Martin knocked him down with a punch to the nose, repeatedly slammed his head on the ground and tried to take his gun, a police source told ABC News.

Zimmerman had claimed he had called police about Martin, whom he found suspicious, then went back to his car when Martin attacked him, punching him.

I guess it was a rush from in front. Thank you, article, for answering what people here could only answer with "stuff happens." How Martin somehow got behind Zimmerman's car we'll never know.

Martin's girlfriend had said in a recording obtained exclusively by ABC News that she heard Martin ask Zimmerman "why are your following me, and then the man asked, what are you doing around here." She then heard a scuffle break out and the line went dead.

There doesn't seem to be a problem there. Martin asked a simple question, which Zimmerman is free not to answer, or to answer as he did. The "scuffle" doesn't point to either one, because it's being witnessed via a phonecall.

That suspension was for...

ABC News has also learned that Martin was staying in Sanford at the time because he'd been suspended from Krop High School in Miami after school officials found him with a baggy that they suspected contained marijuana. He was staying at his father's fiance's house in Sanford.

Family spokesperson Ryan Julison confirmed to ABC News that Martin was suspended for an "empty baggy that had contained pot."

SYG used up until recently:

Zimmerman claimed self defense and this weekend the lawyer counseling him, Craig Sonner, told ABC News that he was likely to invoke Florida's controversial stand-your-ground law in his defense.

"He said this man was watching him, so he put his hoodie on. He said he lost the man," Martin's friend said. "I asked Trayvon to run, and he said he was going to walk fast. I told him to run, but he said he was not going to run."

Eventually, he would run, said the girl, thinking that he'd managed to escape. But suddenly the strange man was back, cornering Martin.

"Trayvon said, 'What are you following me for,' and the man said, 'What are you doing here.' Next thing I hear is somebody pushing, and somebody pushed Trayvon because the head set just fell. I called him again, and he didn't answer the phone."

The Martin-got-pushed part is speculation, obviously, since it can "just fall" if you push someone very hard as well.

violated major parts of the Neighborhood Watch Manual, which states "It should be emphasized to members that they do not possess police powers. And they shall not carry weapons or pursue vehicles."

I'm sure that, while I've been doing this, those of you that know one way or another what happened have still been going at this.

 

[azxd]

I have actually been in this situation. I did not go home because I did not want the guy following me to know where I lived.

Noted

 

[angelatc]

Color of skin has nothing to do with this, unless you think it is imporant.

Ron Paul says that the judicial system is racially biased. The black community says the judicidal system is racially biased. You say it isn't important? Or that the kid wasn't brought up hearing messages about the prejudices in the judicial system?

And 17,
Again,
If Martin was 100 yards from home, why didn't he go home ?

He might be alive if he had went home.
He might be alive if he hadn't took off running.

Many theories can be developed about life and death, but they're all just theories.

I already told you that. I have been in that situation. Therefore a theory that I find incredibly likely is that he did not go home because he did not want the aggressor to know where he lived, which could likely expose his family to danger, either immediate or in the future.