Official Health Care Ruling Thread (Obamacare upheld)

Rand knows in the long run it is unsustainable. Playing the role of the white knight only lends him more mainstream credibility among the biggest voting block, namely seniors who are still mesmerized by New Deal legislation.

Most importantly Rand believes what we believe:




Yeah, it lends him credibility, while diminishing the credibility of those who say we should end it, which decreases the number of people who think it should be ended.

What if all the liberty candidates advocated 'preserving' social security? Are they going to suddenly submit bills allowing opt outs once elected? Even if they did pull that bit of deception, how would it pass with everyone believing social security needs to be 'preserved'? And then the next election becomes even harder because public opinion has drifted even farther towards the dark side. Same thing with the income tax.



We were 3,800 votes away from winning Iowa with arguably the purest liberty candidate ever. Our numbers have grown tremendously since 2007, the Internet continues to usurp the MSM stranglehold on public opinion, and now people want to reverse course and water-down the message? Seems self-defeating to me.

I would much rather see Rand take ownership of Ron's record and say "Yep, I believe what he believes." And then we go head-to-head with the establishment again in 2016, with even more advantages on our side.
 
I don't think so either, but it's apparently fashionable for certain neocons to label themselves "libertarians"...such as Glenn Beck and Neal Boortz.

Glenn Beck has never been a neocon. He hates the establishment GOP with a passion as exhibited by his rant at CPAC which exposed the two party duopoly. I'm basically of the mind not to alienate anyone who is rowing in our general direction. That includes Alex Jones, Kokesh and whomever. Every little bit helps when you see the size and scope of what we are pitted against.
 
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Isn't it cute how Erickson still can't/won't talk about RON PAUL Republicans?

I think his analysis is wrong. The awakened KNOW there is only one party and will not vote for either bad choice.
 
Glenn Beck has never been a neocon. He hates the establishment GOP with a passion as exhibited by his rant at CPAC which exposed the two party duopoly. I'm basically of the mind not to alienate anyone who is rowing in our direction. That includes Alex Jones, Kokesh and whomever. Every little bit helps.

Boy, has he got YOU fooled. The devil is in the details.
 
I think this is the end, really. We will have a different way of life from now on. A change. A new kind of society. And I don't think you will be able to eat anymore hot sauce.

We were socialists long before this. This ships been eastbound and down for quite sometime. I wouldn't let this get to you to much.
 
Is what it is. You can't build or tear down Rome in one or two elections. I'm all about changing it but I'm also realistic about what we're up against. Isn't admiting we have a problem the first step?

Speak for yourself. Your post is defeatist and counterproductive. It is also false and promotes collectivism rather than fighting it.

Perhaps you believe the logical conclusion is single-payer universal care. That is what progressives want, to be unburdened by the issue regardless of the cost to outliers whose care is too expensive and not deemed worth rationing, regardless of the cost to what freedom remains.

My care should be in my hands and not managed by corporatist or fascist or statist entities.
 
We were socialists long before this. This ships been eastbound and down for quite sometime. I wouldn't let this get to you to much.

Oh so you are okay if they placed all your children in compulsory servitude until all your healthcare bills (as a tax) are paid and they direct each one of them to study to become a compliance clerk at the local city hall. They I mean the city council, the school board, the county commissioners.
 
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The Supreme court gave the perfect answer. It sure seems like they handed a softball to both parties today. After hearing reactions from sheepbook and talk radio. Both "sides" think they won today.

It is pretty crazy. The liberals heard Obamacare was upheld! The conservatives are hearing, They repealed the mandate! They are calling it a tax!......................WTF is going on?
 
Chief Justice John Roberts: Anathema to the Constitution

Chief Justice John Roberts and the Affordable Health Care Act: Both Anathema to the Constitution

“In his White House memoir, ‘Courage and Consequence,’ Karl Rove recalls being the lone non-lawyer among the group of George W. Bush aides who initially interviewed John Roberts for the Supreme Court in 2005. Rove asked Roberts to go back in history to name the justice whom he most revered. Roberts’ answer, Robert Jackson, intrigued and reassured Rove. When appointed in 1941, Jackson was serving as Franklin Roosevelt’s attorney general and had been expected to be a pro-New Deal rubber-stamp on the court. But, as Rove put it, Jackson ‘instead demonstrated a fidelity to the Constitution that Roberts admired.’” So writes Walter Shapiro @ http://news.yahoo.com/john-roberts-saves-obamacare--how-does-george-w--bush-feel-right-now-.html

Jackson, it must be said, was mostly a rubber stamp for the New Deal. He was the author of the amazing Wickard v. Filburn, 317 U.S. 111 (1942) http://laws.findlaw.com/us/317/111html, holding that home grown wheat that is all consumed on the farm is interstate commerce because it affects interstate commerce. For more on that monstrosity, see http://douglassbartley.wordpress.com/2012/02/23/federal-commerce-power-leviathans-dragnet/

In the ObamaCare case, writing for the majority, Roberts perhaps emulating his hero, held (from the syllabus pp. 3-4):
CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS delivered the opinion of the Court with respect to Part III-C, concluding that the individual mandate may be upheld as within Congress's power under the Taxing Clause.

“It is therefore necessary to turn to the Government's alternative argument: that the mandate may be upheld as within Congress's power to ‘lay and collect Taxes.’ Art. I, §8, cl. 1 [The General Welfare Clause]. In pressing its taxing power argument, the Government asks the Court to view the mandate as imposing a tax on those who do not buy that product. Because ‘every reasonable construction must be resorted to, in order to save a statute from unconstitutionality,’ Hooper v. California, 155 U. S. 648, 657, the question is whether it is ‘fairly possible’ to interpret the mandate as imposing such a tax, Crowell v. Benson, 285 U. S. 22, 62. Pp. 31-32. 4. Pp. 33- 44 @ http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/06/29/us/29healthcare-scotus-docs.html

Despite Roberts embrace of the “general welfare’ clause as a source of unlimited taxing power, the Founders regarded the clause not as a federal power but as a restraint on federal power. As Jefferson said and Madison agreed:

“[To construe the clause as providing a] distinct and independent power to do any act [congress] might please for the good of the Union . . . would render all the preceding and subsequent enumerations of power completely useless. It would reduce the whole instrument to a single phrase, that of instituting a Congress with power to do whatever would be for the good of the United States . . . . Certainly no such universal power was intended to be given them. [The clause] was intended to lace [Congress] up strictly within the enumerated powers, and . . . without which, as means, those powers could not be carried into effect. (Emphasis added.)”

For more, please see THE GENERAL WELFARE CLAUSE: “How a Constitutional Restraint Was Transformed Into a Constitutional Power @ http://wp.me/sD41z-7.
 
actually i've turned people off of romney today because of obamacare getting back into their brains-
there is an article on bloomberg that talks about the taxes involved with obamacare. in the article romney is quoted saying something to the effect of 'i wouldn't have that particular tax code'
i point out to people that romney has no intention of repealing obamacare, he just thinks he can manage it better.

people i talked today came to the realization, probably for the first time in their life, that with obama and romney as their choices, they are already fucked.
i mean, did you hear romney coming out today saying we need to repeal obamacare? no. he wants it.

+rep

I've reminded them that this Welfare Statism could not have been possible without the monstrous Federal Reserve.
 
I've always said that one of the only things that Bush did as President was to nominate two good Supreme Court justices. Today, that went completely out the window.
 
Chief Justice John Roberts - a George Bush Appointee.

Hey, I finally found an appropriate place for this image:

george-bush-miss-me-yet.jpg


:p
 
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