Official Health Care Ruling Thread (Obamacare upheld)

[undergroundrr]

I actually think we f'd up the healthcare system the minute we allowed someone else to pay for our bills...whether it's insurance or whether it's government in the form of medicare, medicaid, Obamacare or whatever. At that moment, it stopped being a market for healthcare and started being a market for insurance. Since many people have/had their employers paying for their insurance (and taxes pay for medicare) we stopped worrying about it. Until recently. And this is what we get for it.

Exactly. Never let Republicans forget that Nixon got the ball rolling with the HMO Act of 1973.

Corporations are people until the government says they're not. Our new overlords are not individual human beings.

The bailouts aren't for the bankers, they're for the banks. The Affordable Healthcare Initiative isn't for insurance CEO's, they're for the insurance companies themselves. The overlords are not people, they are corporate bodies. Obama has done more to entrench corporatism even than Bush. Hopefully this will get "pro-business" Republicans to start questioning the motives of their beloved corporations.

 

[Czolgosz]

People will settle in and accept it.

 

[torchbearer]

People will settle in and accept it.

yup, and all future debate about Obamacare will be about what sections to tweak.

 

[cajuncocoa]

I actually think we f'd up the healthcare system the minute we allowed someone else to pay for our bills...whether it's insurance or whether it's government in the form of medicare, medicaid, Obamacare or whatever. At that moment, it stopped being a market for healthcare and started being a market for insurance. Since many people have/had their employers paying for their insurance (and taxes pay for medicare) we stopped worrying about it. Until recently. And this is what we get for it.

Exactly. Never let Republicans forget that Nixon got the ball rolling with the HMO Act of 1973.
(snip)

Yes, the HMO Act made things worse, but I propose that the root of the problem started long before that. The HMO Act was a (failed) response to the rising cost of health care. I maintain that health care costs started to rise, and kept rising, due to the fact that the market for health care was rendered non-existant due to the health insurance industry that originated in 1929.


We also rendered useless the market for health insurance because most people are tied to whatever policy their employer provides for them.

 

[The Free Hornet]

Is what it is. You can't build or tear down Rome in one or two elections. I'm all about changing it but I'm also realistic about what we're up against. Isn't admiting we have a problem the first step?

Stating "we are socialists" is not the first step. I am not a socialist. You are not a socialist. If you stated "America is a socialist country and we must fix that" you have a defensible position.

Sentences are like premises. So I read "We are socialists" as a premise, not a criticism.

As a premise, "We are socialists" might imply the answer is "single payer system". We are screaming in that direction because there is little fairness in a system where you are not free to choose who provides your medical service or what those services are. Guilded (AMA) and corporate (big pharma) interests have robbed us of those choices.

As a criticism, "We are socialist" might imply the answer is "end Obamacare, the FDA, DEA, AMA (their authority to regulate medical schools and practicioners), patents, et cetera".

If Monsanto had that type of power, then growing your own food would be illegal just as growing your own medicinals is. I know it is not for lack of trying on Monsanto's part. Your own mother couldn't cook you dinner unless she was trained in a Monsanto approved school. You couldn't cook your own food either. I can cut your hair for free and NOT be prosecuted for not having a license. I cannot remove your appendix for free (yes, you would be insane to let me and I would be insane to try).

The government's stick in dealing with doctors is taking away their license. What they are really doing is taking away more of our freedom.

EDIT:

I forgot to mention a secret fear: the word socialist or communist doesn't scare people anymore - certainly not those on the internet. I don't doubt that 30% of Republicans and 60% of Democrats and 90% of Progressives are OK with being a socialist (or possibly communist). To talk about "admiting we have a problem" keep in mind that telling people "We are socialists" is likely to elicit a response like "good". I hate to say it, but too many AMERICANS are fine with being socialists. There is less and less power in using that label.

 

[cajuncocoa]