Obama Orders Amnesty for Millions

[staerker]

Every time someone sits in a traffic jam for an hour to go 10 miles, they think "Gee, I wish there were more people here."
Every time someone applies for a job at Walmart, and there are a thousand other people begging that job too, they think "Gee, I wish there were more people here."
Every time someone waits at the DMV for an hour to get a new license, they think "Gee, I wish there were more people here."
Every time someone drives around for an hour looking for a parking place, they think "Gee, I wish there were more people here."
Every time someone puts in a bid to buy property and ten other people bid the price up out of reach, they think "Gee, I wish there were more people here."
Every time someone gets a fine for watering their lawn, they think "Gee, I wish there were more people here."
Every time someone watches prime farmland being paved over and filled with high density housing, they think "Gee, I wish there were more people here."

It's all so racist.

Every time a moderator on this forum believes their personal comfort usurps others' personal liberty, I...well I don't know what to think anymore.

 

[staerker]

I'll give you that the DMV isn't always caused by excess immigration, but anyone who has been there knows that immigration distorts the number of customers there. New arrivals need new licenses and registrations.

The rest is your opinion. I don't agree. Pricing mechanisms will not magically grow new roads when there isn't any space for them. And going vertical with housing only make most of those issues worse. And as many people on this forum will attest, they don't want to live in a hive.

Pave over all of the farmland, and food becomes an issue.

You can go ahead and live in a city like this. I don't want to.

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Have some compassion man. Has it ever occurred to you that those who immigrated here had it much worse than all the petty 1st World inconveniences you drone on about? You would rather have thousands (millions?) suffer in horrible living conditions than be 'forced' to wait three extra hours in line every five years.

And that is ignoring the obvious coercion involved in forcibly restricting a sovereign human's movement.

 

[anaconda]

that's like saying drug laws are not racist because the laws apply to white users too, except we already know that blacks commit most of the crimes, so even if they apply the same laws, we know who will end up affect it the most.

For your analogy to be applicable we would need to demonstrate that deportations were disproportionate across the various races of illegals. And then we would need to adjust for other factors, such as the cost of deportations and the applicability of constitutional protections to non-citizens. Was it racist to invade Germany in 1944 because they were mostly white people?

 

[charrob]

Have some compassion man. Has it ever occurred to you that those who immigrated here had it much worse than all the petty 1st World inconveniences you drone on about? You would rather have thousands (millions?) suffer in horrible living conditions than be 'forced' to wait three extra hours in line every five years.

And that is ignoring the obvious coercion involved in forcibly restricting a sovereign human's movement.

Every time a moderator on this forum believes their personal comfort usurps others' personal liberty, I...well I don't know what to think anymore.

So how many is too many? Is there a number you are comfortable with and, if so, what is that number? 400 million? 800 million? 1 billion? 4 billion? Or are you fine at 4 billion+ ?

Our country’s population is at 316 million. How many is too many?

Most of our population growth over the last generation has been from immigration, and most in the future is predicted to be from immigration.

Perhaps we should have a vote?

Personally I remember the country at less than 200 million…

• A big issue for me is that there were no factory farms at 200 million… animals had large grazing areas and weren’t put into cages… they had decent lives and were humanely put down. Many of us have stopped eating meat because we simply cannot stomach what is going on on factory farms. No one expects everyone to be vegan, however, I think the vast majority of Americans believe animals should have a decent life and not be in torture and put in tiny cages where they cannot move their entire lives – and that is exactly what they are in on today’s factory farms. Just imagine the size of these torture chambers if the human population in our country got to 1.4 billion like in China.
  
  
• The #1 threat to wildlife according to scientists is habitat destruction from human overpopulation. Huge numbers of species go extinct every year. There’s 400 right whales left on the entire planet – and their lives are threatened right now by seismic blasting then offshore oil drilling off the U.S. East Coast. 400 right whales left on the planet and we’re willing to sacrifice their lives so endless human growth can ride around in SUVs? 600 million birds die every year from flying into the glass windows in buildings. There’s expected to be no more fish in the ocean by 2048.

Yes, if I could vote, I’d vote on a system that completely ended all immigration (both legal and illegal) until the population in the country got back down to around 200 million. I’d like to see birth-right citizenship end, felonies to be given to any employer who gets caught employing someone illegally here – that way people would self-deport. Children here illegally should not be going to public schools.

A lot of people’s views on population probably has a lot to do with their own experiences. People who take the D.C. Metro to work every day during rush hour are basically packed like cattle into crammed subway cars (standing room only); sometimes when the doors open you don’t have to initiate walking into the car in front of you because of the large mob of people behind you pushing you into the car. No one talks to each other; most people are either wearing ear buds listening to the radio or reading magazines or books. Very few people even give eye contact to one another. Why?

And that is the big question: why? I personally believe human beings need space. I know I do. And when you’re surrounded by hordes of people all the time, people are cold to each other. Why? Because it’s too many people. Compare that to walking down the street of a small town. When you come across another human, you’re friendly. It’s natural.

I don’t live in northern Virginia but have been there enough to hate it. It’s cold. It’s sterile. There’s highways everywhere. Stacked apartments where people live along highways. There’s places where there’s 5 and 6 highways built on top of each other. Everything is concrete. Paved. Not natural.

I need nature to survive. I need wide open fields to see sunsets on horizons. All that is quickly disappearing. Some people might be fine with 3 billion people in this country and a concrete jungle. I’m happiest at 200 million.

So how about we vote as a country, or each state vote individually, how large we want our population to be? And make it law.

Allowing spillover immigration from countries that are overpopulated into this country not only harms our own country but neglects the hard work that overpopulated country will eventually need to do in controlling their population numbers. You may hate me for saying this: but imho the Chinese government had no choice but to implement their one child policy: they've got 1.4 billion people and because of the overpopulation their country is a cesspool. Hopefully we will be smart enough to control our numbers by managing the one thing that increases our numbers (immigration) instead of waiting until we're at a point like China was.

 

[PRB]

Yes he overreached his power. But also yes I support such an overreach. If Rand Paul as president doesn't act the same way in the 4-8 years in his presidential term, he's useless and will accomplish next to nothing.

I get the part about Obama overreaching. Was there amnesty or not? Did Rand Paul say Obama was giving amnesty or not? Good to know somebody's admitting he'll support using force and breaking laws as long as it's for a good cause.

 

[PRB]

For your analogy to be applicable we would need to demonstrate that deportations were disproportionate across the various races of illegals.

That would be by default true as long as illegals are not proportionate across all races, which is the case.

And then we would need to adjust for other factors, such as the cost of deportations and the applicability of constitutional protections to non-citizens. Was it racist to invade Germany in 1944 because they were mostly white people?

All wars are by definition nationalist and mostly racist. If you believe all humans are equal and no human is better than another, then any crime against humanity is racist.

 

[anaconda]

That would be by default true as long as illegals are not proportionate across all races, which is the case.

Whether deportation policy is applied proportionately by race among the population of illegals in the U.S. is unrelated to the racial proportions existing in the world at large, since deportations to not apply to latter. Deportation might be construed as racist if a particular racial group within the population of illegals was more frequently deported than another.

 

[anaconda]

If you believe all humans are equal and no human is better than another, then any crime against humanity is racist.

Your statement is patently false. Crimes against humanity can be committed between persons of the same race. And wars can occur between nation states with similar racial populations.

 

[staerker]

So how many is too many? Is there a number you are comfortable with and, if so, what is that number? 400 million? 800 million? 1 billion? 4 billion? Or are you fine at 4 billion+ ?

Our country’s population is at 316 million. How many is too many?

Most of our population growth over the last generation has been from immigration, and most in the future is predicted to be from immigration.

Perhaps we should have a vote?

Personally I remember the country at less than 200 million…

[...]

A lot of people’s views on population probably has a lot to do with their own experiences. People who take the D.C. Metro to work every day during rush hour are basically packed like cattle into crammed subway cars (standing room only); sometimes when the doors open you don’t have to initiate walking into the car in front of you because of the large mob of people behind you pushing you into the car. No one talks to each other; most people are either wearing ear buds listening to the radio or reading magazines or books. Very few people even give eye contact to one another. Why?

And that is the big question: why? I personally believe human beings need space. I know I do. And when you’re surrounded by hordes of people all the time, people are cold to each other. Why? Because it’s too many people. Compare that to walking down the street of a small town. When you come across another human, you’re friendly. It’s natural.

I don’t live in northern Virginia but have been there enough to hate it. It’s cold. It’s sterile. There’s highways everywhere. Stacked apartments where people live along highways. There’s places where there’s 5 and 6 highways built on top of each other. Everything is concrete. Paved. Not natural.

I need nature to survive. I need wide open fields to see sunsets on horizons. All that is quickly disappearing. Some people might be fine with 3 billion people in this country and a concrete jungle. I’m happiest at 200 million.

And I have lived that life before. Still live in NOVA, just don't ride the metro much anymore.

I have honestly not put much thought into an ideal 'number' of humans. It sounds silly to me. I have no right to dictate who can live, or die. I also have no right to dictate who can travel. If I do not own that land, I cannot impede movement over that land.

I will tell you one thing. Those making arguments about overpopulation, and unsustainable resources, will feel really silly once we tap into the resources out in space. Which is beginning to happen already.

 

[PRB]

Your statement is patently false. Crimes against humanity can be committed between persons of the same race. And wars can occur between nation states with similar racial populations.

Ok, so you pointed out exceptions, does that mean short of exceptions my point still holds true?

 

[PRB]

Whether deportation policy is applied proportionately by race among the population of illegals in the U.S. is unrelated to the racial proportions existing in the world at large, since deportations to not apply to latter. Deportation might be construed as racist if a particular racial group within the population of illegals was more frequently deported than another.

I agree, it's unrelated to proportions of the world, and all related to proportions of actual immigrants here. And yes, it can be construed as racist, so you agree with me.

 

[HOLLYWOOD]

ALL ABOARD!

 

[PRB]

ALL ABOARD!

what's wrong with that unless you're racist or nationalist?

you can't have it both ways, either you want there to be less government and illegals are going to flood this country, or you want this country to be free from aliens and you'll have fascism with people checked everywhere for their papers. pick one.

this is no different than a picture showing drunk drivers, that's the price of liberty. if you don't want police stopping people every night everywhere asking for license and asking if the person has had any alcohol to drink, you have to allow drunk people to drive and innocent people have to be killed as a result. you can't have it both ways.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

They would also risk losing the jobs that they currently have. Going "legal" means employers would have to start following all of the labor and taxation laws, with all of the paperwork that entails. It would also identify the business as previously employing illegal labor.

Next up, Obama is going to give you amnesty to own guns. All you have to do is register them with the Federal government...

Are you saying because of minimum wage?

Yep. Minimum wage and a variety of additional costs and hassles.

 

[PRB]

Yep. Minimum wage and a variety of additional costs and hassles.

If I like my wages, I can keep them, right? Or will I be forced to pay affordable wages?

 

[moostraks]

what's wrong with that unless you're racist or nationalist?

you can't have it both ways, either you want there to be less government and illegals are going to flood this country, or you want this country to be free from aliens and you'll have fascism with people checked everywhere for their papers. pick one.

this is no different than a picture showing drunk drivers, that's the price of liberty. if you don't want police stopping people every night everywhere asking for license and asking if the person has had any alcohol to drink, you have to allow drunk people to drive and innocent people have to be killed as a result. you can't have it both ways.

Instead of supporting behavior that is harmful, one could advocate for personal responsibility without being a racist or a nationalist. You present a narrowminded set of options for the situation.

 

[PRB]

Instead of supporting behavior that is harmful, one could advocate for personal responsibility without being a racist or a nationalist. You present a narrowminded set of options for the situation.

Enlighten me.

How exactly is it personal responsibility to not welcome aliens to this country? oh yes, tell me all about this "harmful behavior"

 

[Brian4Liberty]

Every time a moderator on this forum believes their personal comfort usurps others' personal liberty, I...well I don't know what to think anymore.

No need to worry. My opinions are mine and mine alone. I don't speak for anyone else. There is no requirement for everyone to agree 100% on every issue. What ever happened to ending the welfare state as a prerequisite to more immigration? Not everyone agrees to that.

Have some compassion man. Has it ever occurred to you that those who immigrated here had it much worse than all the petty 1st World inconveniences you drone on about? You would rather have thousands (millions?) suffer in horrible living conditions than be 'forced' to wait three extra hours in line every five years.

And that is ignoring the obvious coercion involved in forcibly restricting a sovereign human's movement.

Compassion? Hmm. Never been much for bleeding heart liberalism. I suppose that reducing or ending welfare would not be compassionate either. On the other hand, my "compassion" does extent to people who have been here a long time. I've never been on the side calling for mass deportation. Slowing the inflow is a more realistic and "compassionate" position.

 

[Zippyjuan]

Inflows have slowed in recent years. (This covers both legal and illegal immigration):

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2014/01/23/fewer-immigrants-came-to-u-s-last-year/

And most have been here a long time. Most illegal immigrants have already been here for more than ten years.

https://espnfivethirtyeight.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/ph-2014-09-03-immigration-03.png?w=610

Asians have actually become the biggest immigrant group (both legal and illegal immigrants) entering the US as net immigration from Mexico hit zero a few years ago. Maybe we need to increase security along our border with Asia.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/19/us/asians-surpass-hispanics-as-biggest-immigrant-wave.html?_r=0

In a Shift, Biggest Wave of Migrants Is Now Asian

Asians have surpassed Hispanics as the largest wave of new immigrants to the United States, pushing the population of Asian descent to a record 18.2 million and helping to make Asians the fastest-growing racial group in the country, according to a study released Tuesday by the Pew Research Center.

While Asian immigration has increased slightly in recent years, the shift in ranking is largely attributable to the sharp decline in Hispanic immigration, the study said.

About 430,000 Asians — or 36 percent of all new immigrants, legal and illegal — moved to the United States in 2010, compared with 370,000 Hispanics, or 31 percent of all new arrivals, the study said. Just three years earlier, the ratio was reversed: about 390,000 Asians immigrated in 2007, compared with 540,000 Hispanics.

“Asians have become the largest stream of new immigrants to the U.S. — and, thus, the latest leading actors in this great American drama” of immigration, Paul Taylor, executive vice president of the Pew Research Center, wrote in the report.

Under this pressure, Hispanic immigration dropped 31 percent from 2007 to 2010, while Asian immigration increased about 10 percent.

More at link.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...xplain-the-undocumented-immigrant-population/

Jobs or welfare?

Most have jobs, but many are poor

Since most people who come to the U.S. illegally do so to work, it isn’t surprising that most have jobs. About 65 percent of unauthorized immigrants over age 15 are employed, according to the Migration Policy Institute, a higher share than for the U.S. population as a whole. A large percentage work in construction, hospitality, food service and other sectors often associated with immigrant labor. But unauthorized immigrants can be found in virtually every industry.

A majority of unauthorized immigrants are struggling financially. Nearly a third live in poverty, and nearly two-thirds earn less than twice the federal poverty line. Two-thirds lack health insurance, and less than a third own their own homes.

 

[Lucille]

ROTFLMAO And how does that fucking work?! If you read the tweets below it, there are people who actually believe that "fact."

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-11-22/proof-golf-and-economics-dont-mix