NY middle school sex ed class gone wild

[devil21]

 

[dannno]

It was assumed she had a history of being promiscuous - from the media. Her actions did appear she wanted such... what?

I was basing that off of witness testimony by her friends.

 

[Nirvikalpa]

I was basing that off of witness testimony by her friends.

Her friends sound like wonderful people...

 

[angelatc]

I mean, I think you'd disagree about 'respecting' this girl's decision to pass out drunk and have sex with multiple guys, but I mean respect as far as her peers respecting her person and not disparaging her personally.

So she passed out drunk then decided to have sex? What?

 

[PierzStyx]

That part is certainly true.

Only because parents are abrogating their position as the adult.

You are not your child's best friend.
You are not their buddy.
They are not your equal.
You are their parent.
It is to stop them from making stupid decisions like having underage, pre-marital sex.
If you are a meanie, or a "bully", or "to strict", if they "hate you", to bad. Suck it up. Do what is right. They may hate it now, but I guarantee 20 years from now they will thank you.

 

[angelatc]

Her friends sound like wonderful people...

They've been with her through this whole thing...

 

[dannno]

So she passed out drunk then decided to have sex? What?

No, but according to her friends that was her intention, she was planning on getting really drunk and then having sex with multiple guys. She just happened to fall asleep.

 

[angelatc]

No, but according to her friends that was her intention, she was planning on getting really drunk and then having sex with multiple guys. She just happened to fall asleep.

I see. So based on hearsay, those guys were totally within their rights. You're also on board with hate crime legislation, then, I presume?

 

[dannno]

I see. So based on hearsay, those guys were totally within their rights. You're also on board with hate crime legislation, then, I presume?

Actually I said they should go to jail on principle - to protect the rights of other women and not create a dangerous precedent - even if she was using the rape charge because it was the only way to get back at them for publishing all those photos of her on social networks and she didn't actually care that they had inserted a finger into her vagina.

But I don't think these guys are dangerous or likely to rape in the future, I think their biggest mistake was publishing the photos, otherwise they would probably never had charges brought up.

 

[WhistlinDave]

It was assumed she had a history of being promiscuous - from the media. Her actions did appear she wanted such... what?

Remind me to never drink at a libertarian function ever again.

---------

Grown men calling 12-16 year old girls "sluts" is never entertaining.
Grown women calling 12-16 year old girls "sluts" is never entertaining.

"Slut shaming" is wrong (for both sexes). Shaming a man and woman for wanting to remain a virgin until marriage is also wrong.

A woman dressing provocatively =/= her losing ownership of her body, and her explicitly giving you consent to hurt her/touch her/etc.
A 15 year old being curious about sex and his/her body does not make them a slut.

We're sexual beings and we are intimate with our reproductive organs starting in infancy (come on parents, you've never had your little boy play with himself? Freud's psychosexual stages have some merit...). If you ever worked in a daycare, or had your own children, you'd see just how curious kids are with their bodies...

Stifling it isn't helping either. I've seen parents treat their children like dogs. "No" isn't working. "That's disgusting!" isn't working, either.

When parents refuse to sit their children down and have the talk with them, they are opening the door for the state to do so. It's that simple. The biology of sex is amazing. What's more amazing is that in this culture where information is at your fingertips, I have been asked in person and PMd questions about sex by 19-28 year olds, and all tend to stem from a shameful standpoint - "I don't know if this is normal or not, but..." Why do adults still not understand the reproductive system and are still so ashamed of themselves?

Makes me so sad.

Most excellent post.

In my opinion, most of the sexual repression and/or shame stems from religion. And having been raised Catholic, I speak from experience. I don't want to derail the thread or anything, so I almost hesitate to post this.

Really the biggest issue is, just like all other freedoms, there are consequences to our decisions and people need to take responsibility for those decisions and realize the impact they have on others. Especially when parenting.

I fully support the right of parents to opt their kids out of sex ed if they find the curriculum unacceptable. I also support the right of parents to teach their kids they are going to burn in hell for eternity if they explore their sexuality. That is a parent's right.

But parents must realize they are not doing their kids any favor by teaching them this shameful attitude about human nature. It isn't healthy, and it isn't going to lead to your child making wise decisions if you shoot for unrealistic expectations, and fail to arm your kid with real knowledge and choices to prevent some of the negative consequences of heeding nature's call. Because most of them will heed nature's call, no matter what you try to do.

Reminds me a little of the old joke about two parents discussing their kids' exploits.

"I'm sure glad I have a boy."

"Why? You've got to worry about what he does with that dick. I'm glad I have a girl instead."

"Really? I just have to worry about one dick. You have to worry about every dick in the neighborhood."

 

[jmdrake]

Eg gads! I restarted the "drunk raped girl" wars! Everyone please stop while there's still time! My apologies!

 

[jmdrake]

Have you ever raised a teenager? NO....being a teenager does not count as raising one. They are contrarians built with an urge to do the exact opposite of what their parents request of them. It serves to help sever the ties of childhood to adulthood and foster their independence. That does not mean they inherit some god given wisdom and everything contrary to parental advice is wise or safe to do.

So you put college age mentors in their telling them about how their parents can't stop them and make all the crap they watch on tv seem acceptable when they are flooded with hormones they don't have the slightest idea how to control. It is peer pressuring and the psychologists at the school know this. So after this little teaching experiment, did they have to raise up a little junior for which they were on call for from their sexual promiscuity? Or did they get a simulated experience of having an abortion??? Watch any videos on abortions performed?

This was a poor decision on the part of management and if they thought it was such a good idea why did they not inform the parents? Two options on that one imo, they felt it was their right to do what they please as the children are under their control or that the parents would complain and it was more important that this was taught (which goes back to reason 1). Thing is that a middle schooler who takes off with this information and suffers ill consequences is the parents responsibility. Of course social services is always there to lend a hand for the unruliness inspired by these types of indoctrination exercises...

Great posts! Okay folks. Here's the scenario. Instead the "teachers" had the kiddies play terrorist / Gitmo interrogator, again without parents permission. They're supposed to simulate torture and/or killing infidels. Okay? Not okay?

 

[Nirvikalpa]

Eg gads! I restarted the "drunk raped girl" wars! Everyone please stop while there's still time! My apologies!

I think you deserve to get banned just for that

 

[WhistlinDave]

Great posts! Okay folks. Here's the scenario. Instead the "teachers" had the kiddies play terrorist / Gitmo interrogator, again without parents permission. They're supposed to simulate torture and/or killing infidels. Okay? Not okay?

Were lesbian kisses involved in this torture?

 

[jmdrake]

Were lesbian kisses involved in this torture?

You jest, but I recall the Gitmo torture involved menstruating prostitutes.

 

[jmdrake]

It was assumed she had a history of being promiscuous - from the media. Her actions did appear she wanted such... what?

Remind me to never drink at a libertarian function ever again.

---------

Grown men calling 12-16 year old girls "sluts" is never entertaining.
Grown women calling 12-16 year old girls "sluts" is never entertaining.

"Slut shaming" is wrong (for both sexes). Shaming a man and woman for wanting to remain a virgin until marriage is also wrong.

A woman dressing provocatively =/= her losing ownership of her body, and her explicitly giving you consent to hurt her/touch her/etc.
A 15 year old being curious about sex and his/her body does not make them a slut.

We're sexual beings and we are intimate with our reproductive organs starting in infancy (come on parents, you've never had your little boy play with himself? Freud's psychosexual stages have some merit...). If you ever worked in a daycare, or had your own children, you'd see just how curious kids are with their bodies...

Stifling it isn't helping either. I've seen parents treat their children like dogs. "No" isn't working. "That's disgusting!" isn't working, either.

When parents refuse to sit their children down and have the talk with them, they are opening the door for the state to do so. It's that simple. The biology of sex is amazing. What's more amazing is that in this culture where information is at your fingertips, I have been asked in person and PMd questions about sex by 19-28 year olds, and all tend to stem from a shameful standpoint - "I don't know if this is normal or not, but..." Why do adults still not understand the reproductive system and are still so ashamed of themselves?

Makes me so sad.

I want to say that I totally agree especially with that last part. I started having serious talks with my sons about a year ago. Even went out and bought a book. And I've been open to them about my own failings in this area....which makes this all....well...interesting.

 

[WhistlinDave]

You jest, but I recall the Gitmo torture involved menstruating prostitutes.

That's more than I ever wanted to know about torture... Blech!!

To your original question, I think for me it would depend on the context, just like the sex stuff. It would be OK with me if your scenario was part of an exercise in teaching kids why we should not be torturing people and why we're supposed to have due process of law for accused criminals. (And assuming there was no actual harm done, just simulated situations.)

 

[Nirvikalpa]

You jest, but I recall the Gitmo torture involved menstruating prostitutes.

*sigh* I really wish this whole stigma of a woman being "unclean" during menstruation would just... die. There's a reason women have a mensus cycle opposed to an estrous cycle like nearly all other mammals... men aren't supposed to know when we are receptive and when we're not, because we are one of the only species on the planet that can/want to engage in sexual relations at any point and time during the cycle.

I understand why they did it though (in regards to religious intimidation, probably).

/offtopic rant.

 

[amy31416]

I can't figure out anymore if being called a slut is supposed to be a good or bad thing. I thought the liberals were trying to use it as an "empowering" title for a while there...so when the phrase "slut shaming" came out--I just got more confused.

Beyond that, I can't imagine the mindset of the "teacher" who sat down and came up with this curriculum, then carried it out using middle schoolers.

 

[AFPVet]

When I was in sex education class in eighth grade, we were shown a cheap 70s porno, woman giving birth, use of contraception, and masturbation. What ever happened to the good ole days lol.