Non-US citizens CAN NOT donate to US Ron Paul ChipIns! -Admin: Accuracy is questioned

[Bakkhus]

Torchbearer is correct

b) Contributions and donations by foreign nationals in connection
with elections. A foreign national shall not, directly or indirectly,
make a contribution or a donation of money or other thing of value, or
expressly or impliedly promise to make a contribution or a donation, in
connection with any Federal, State, or local election.
(c) Contributions and donations by foreign nationals to political
committees and organizations of political parties. A foreign national
shall not, directly or indirectly, make a contribution or donation to:
(1) A political committee of a political party, including a national
party committee, a national congressional campaign committee, or a
State, district, or local party committee, including a non-Federal
account of a State, district, or local party committee, or
(2) An organization of a political party whether or not the
organization is a political committee under 11 CFR 100.5.

From what has been posted here, Torchbearer and his lawyer are absolutely correct. There is no grey area here with regard to what "indirectly" means. These rules clearly govern official campaigns and associated party activities, not grassroot independent projects.

 

[Mark]

Im a foreigner and since I cant donate, is there anyother way of supporting Ron Paul?

.

.
My Church, for the first time since it's Incorporation 9 years ago,
is seeking contributions of support for it's Missions.

We have decided to take this step because, as a Church,
we feel that these are critical times for not only our nation,
but also for the world as a whole.

We feel that the time of opportunity to take on this mission of change is now,
and may prove to be brief, unless we indeed take action now.

Our Church has already contributed hundreds of hours of time,
and hundreds of our scarce dollars, in our endeavors to ensure that
voters in the upcoming 2008 Presidential Election are well informed.

And we want to do so much more, and we have many ideas to explore and implement,
yet, we have emptied our treasury, and no longer have the funds necessary
to take on further projects.

So now, our Church has a choice. We can continue as we have, having a small impact,
or, for the first time in our history, ask others to help us in our service to God,
and make a large difference that is only limited by our resources.

So, we ask. Not for us as a Church alone, but for all of us, as a world.

If you are able to help us in our Missions, we pledge to utilize any assistance
donated towards our efforts, in the most efficient and beneficial manner possible.

If anyone has any questions at all, please feel free to ask,
and I'll be adding more information as it becomes available.


.
You can find information on the Incorporation of our Organization,
at the web site of The North Carolina Department of State,
in the 'Corporations' section here:

http://www.secretary.state.nc.us/corporations/Corp.aspx?PitemId=4785114


Or By Search;

By Registered Agent: Cahall

http://www.secretary.state.nc.us/corporations/searchresultsagt.aspx?searchstr=Cahall&Words=STARTING


By Corporation Name: The Order Of Melchizedek

http://www.secretary.state.nc.us/co...ords=EXACT&searchstr=The Order Of Melchizedek


For now, we've started a donation account at the ChipIn site.

http://toomchurch.chipin.com/please-help-our-church


If you feel so lead, please help us help the world, while we can.


Thank you,
Rev Mark Cahall
Head Priest of The Order Of Melchizedek
Raleigh, NC, USA

.

 

[ashevillejerry]

Please cite your authority

These rules clearly govern official campaigns and associated party activities, not grassroot independent projects.

I see nothing in the statute prohibiting foreign nationals from spending money to influence U.S. elections, 2 U.S.C. § 441e that limits its scope as you state. Please cite your authorities for your conclusion.

Perhaps you are being misled by the title, which only referrs to contributions and donations. However, statutes are not limited by their titles. § 441e (a) (1) (C) also prohibits independent expenditures by foreign nationals.

You are correct that there is nothing gray about the word "indirectly." This word means pretty much the same in law as it does in conversation.

 

[mkpdavies]

How come Bill Clinton was allowed to go and get funds in Ireland for this wife then?


http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/breaking/2007/1118/breaking17.htm

Former US President Bill Clinton met with Taoiseach Bertie Ahern last night before a private fundraising event in Dublin to support his wife's bid for presidency.

 

[Bakkhus]

????

How come Bill Clinton was allowed to go and get funds in Ireland for this wife then?


http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/breaking/2007/1118/breaking17.htm

Jerry, we are waiting for your answer to this?

 

[mkpdavies]

I should have read it better.

Only US citizens and Green Card holders are allowed to contribute to the Hillary Clinton presidential campaign fund, which has been organised by the Irish-Americans for Hillary group.

So that's fair enough for direct campaign fund raising.


I still don't understand how you can stop foreign friends giving their American friends money. Then the American friends deciding to give a similar amount to Ron Paul.

 

[MDrollette]

The best way to avoid these issues is to have all non-American supporters donate to the Ron Paul Blimp Project. This avoids all of the legal issues with international contributions and it has the greatest impact on the campaign. http://ronpaulblimp.com

 

[Mark]

The best way to avoid these issues is to have all non-American supporters donate to the Ron Paul Blimp Project. This avoids all of the legal issues with international contributions and it has the greatest impact on the campaign. http://ronpaulblimp.com

I believe the blimp organizers have said that they CAN NOT accept ad buys from Foreign Nationals.

FNs CAN also donate to my Church, which can have an even greater impact than the blimp.

My Church Organization is seeking donations for our Electoral Educational Project.

We are not a Federally Registered 501(c)3 Organization,
so our outreach is not limited in terms promoting specific individual candidates.

We follow the example set by Presidential Candidate Rep Dr Ron Paul
in terms of honor, integrity, and fiscal responsibility ,
so you can be assured your contribution will be handled accordingly.

If you do care to support us in our project,
please follow the link at the bottom of my signature,

"Please Help Our Church".

Thank you.

 

[Joe3113]

You have criminals actually running the government in the US who clearly break the law and don't get in trouble. It's hard to have a revolution when you are bound by the laws that the government itself puts in place or does not respect. What revolution in history followed the law?

And what the hell can they do to Ron if I give money to some guy in the US making Ron Paul signs? Ron didn't know. I reckon internationals should donate to the chip-ins but only the ones that have absolutely no cash flow to the official campaign. I don't see how they can punish the official campaign for this...

And another thing....if Ron got elected pres, there would be a riot if the FEC tried to do anything to him.

Let this thread die now

 

[Mark]

You have criminals actually running the government in the US who clearly break the law and don't get in trouble. It's hard to have a revolution when you are bound by the laws that the government itself puts in place or does not respect. What revolution in history followed the law?

And what the hell can they do to Ron if I give money to some guy in the US making Ron Paul signs? Ron didn't know. I reckon internationals should donate to the chip-ins but only the ones that have absolutely no cash flow to the official campaign. I don't see how they can punish the official campaign for this...

And another thing....if Ron got elected pres, there would be a riot if the FEC tried to do anything to him.

Let this thread die now

Well, they could go after the person accepting the money in the US from a Foreign National.

Not saying they would, but they could.

Now we're "under the radar".

When this explodes,
they'll be looking and things will have to "quiet down".

I'm offering a completely legal method for Foreign Nationals to contribute to informing American voters of their choices.

The blimp is definitely illegal to contribute to for FNs.

And it's VERY "high profile".

If it takes off and gets all that attention,
they might have to return the money and/or even be charged with a crime
for accepting the money from a FN because FNs CAN NOT donate specifically to influence US voters for a specific candidate.

That's what the blimp is. A direct advertisement for a specific candidate.

I believe they've already stated that they can't accept ad buys from FNs.

My Church on the other hand, is free to accept any amount of money for our project from FNs
because the contribution is NOT for a specific candidate, it's for "educational purposes".

The blimp project and my Church's project are completely different animals.

 

[Peterjar]

I haven't had single donation to my chipin since this thread started. This thread hurts the campaign. It creates fear where none in needed. LET THIS THREAD DIE! Nothing is going to happen to foreigners or US citizens who give or take a little money here and there, moreover, it is not clear if it is really illegal. So chipin away!

 

[Mark]

I haven't had single donation to my chipin since this thread started. This thread hurts the campaign. It creates fear where none in needed. LET THIS THREAD DIE! Nothing is going to happen to foreigners or US citizens who give or take a little money here and there, moreover, it is not clear if it is really illegal. So chipin away!

One quick one while on top.

It is clear that The Federal Election Campaign Act (FECA)
prohibits any foreign national from contributing, donating or spending funds
in connection with any federal, state, or local election in the United States,
either directly or indirectly.

http://www.fec.gov/pages/brochures/foreign.shtml

My Church however, is only accepting donations

Foreign Nationals CAN contribute any amount to our Church.

Now, I'm not saying that it would be a big deal to contribute to your chipin,
but, maybe why you haven't gotten any chipins, is because no one can find it.

Where's the link? What chipin is it?

 

[greves]

Admin: PLEASE delete this thread. It's BS.

 

[Mark]

Admin: PLEASE delete this thread. It's BS.

Yeah, deleting this would be great! Only a word to the wise.

My Church can't even solicit Foreign Nationals
for "Electoral Education Projects."

We're just asking Foreign Nationals for regular donations.

Not for the "Electoral Education Project".

 

[Mark]

Admin: PLEASE delete this thread. It's BS.

BTW.. this is not BS, it's CYA.

http://www.fec.gov/pages/brochures/foreign.shtml

The Prohibition

The Federal Election Campaign Act (FECA) prohibits any foreign national from
contributing, donating or spending funds in connection with any
federal, state, or local election in the United States, either directly or indirectly.

It is also unlawful to help foreign nationals violate that ban or to solicit,
receive or accept contributions or donations from them.

Persons who knowingly and willfully engage in these activities may be subject to fines and/or imprisonment.
.

 

[Mark]

The more I read, the more I get confused.

http://www.fec.gov/law/feca/feca.shtml

Statutes

Federal Campaign Finance Laws [PDF]
A compilation of the laws governing the financing of federal elections, including provisions administered by other government agencies. Those provisions include:

• Sections of the tax code administered by the Internal Revenue Service that govern tax-exempt 501(c) groups and so-called 527 organizations (additional provisions of 26 U.S.C. also apply);
• Laws administered by the Federal Communications Commission that govern broadcast communications; and
• Criminal provisions administered by the Department of Justice that relate to elections and political activity.

Please contact the agencies listed above for additional information on the laws they administer.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

Maybe it just applies to 501(c)3's.

The State can't tell a non 501(c)3 what to do,
separation of Church and State.

It seems the prohibitions are for Federally Recognized Orgs
that get tax exemptions.

There's a number to call for questions. I think I will next biz day.

This thread is WAY too confusing by now.

Delete and start anew? Everyone's "on their own"?

Whatever. It's everyones own A in the CYA. You know how that goes.

 

[qh4dotcom]

Here's the loophole if you're a foreigner that wants to donate...go to Ebay search for "Ron Paul" and there should be some sellers there selling Ron Paul stuff who claim that they will donate all proceeds to Ron Paul campaign...not only do you get to donate to the campaign but you get some cool merchandise in your mailbox like I have.

There are also plenty of Ron Paul websites out there selling Ron Paul stuff, not just Ebay.

 

[ashevillejerry]

It's Still Illegal

Here's the loophole if you're a foreigner that wants to donate...go to Ebay search for "Ron Paul" and there should be some sellers there selling Ron Paul stuff who claim that they will donate all proceeds to Ron Paul campaign...not only do you get to donate to the campaign but you get some cool merchandise in your mailbox like I have.

Calling this a loophole is like calling a ski mask is a loophole to bank robbing laws. Even though you are just less likely to get caught, it's still illegal.

Foreign nationals are prohibited from contributing in any way and nationals are prohibited from acting as conduits. Here's a good link for the regs: http://www.campaignfinanceguide.org/f-forgnnatl.html.

If foreign nationals want so support a cause of freedom, check out the Republic of Lakotah.

 

[qh4dotcom]

Calling this a loophole is like calling a ski mask is a loophole to bank robbing laws. Even though you are just less likely to get caught, it's still illegal.

Foreign nationals are prohibited from contributing in any way and nationals are prohibited from acting as conduits. Here's a good link for the regs: http://www.campaignfinanceguide.org/f-forgnnatl.html.

If foreign nationals want so support a cause of freedom, check out the Republic of Lakotah.

Why is buying someone's Ron Paul stuff on Ebay illegal? Is a foreigner supposed to question a US Ebay seller every time the foreigner buys something on Ebay if the money being given to the seller will be donated to Hillary, McCain, etc.? And does that mean that these Ebay Ron Paul sellers should refuse to sell to foreigners and refund their money if by any chance a foreigner buys from them?

 

[Mark]

Why is buying someone's Ron Paul stuff on Ebay illegal? Is a foreigner supposed to question a US Ebay seller every time the foreigner buys something on Ebay if the money being given to the seller will be donated to Hillary, McCain, etc.? And does that mean that these Ebay Ron Paul sellers should refuse to sell to foreigners and refund their money if by any chance a foreigner buys from them?

It's not the buying of RP things, it's the part where the seller explicitly states that the money will be going to the Campaign.

It would be different if the seller said, I donated my rent money to RP, and now I need to sell this item for rent money.