NASA’s Hansen Exploits Hot Summers to Push Carbon Fascism

Rivers, lakes, and oceans would be most of the water on the planet. And as you point out, there would be a very high burden of proof required by an individual against a bigger and wealthier company to prove first that you were harmed and secondly that this particular company was the source of the pollution which harmed you. If many companies are dumping waste into water or air, how do you decide which is to blame for what problem? The chances of an individual prevailing would be difficult at best.

The other problem with "ownership" of water or air is that it cannot be contained- it moves around. I can build a fence around my land to keep people from either coming onto it or if they cause damages it is easy to determine if it occured on my land but the same cannot be said of air or water. I can't control or even define or protect what is "my" water or air- it is a shared resource. Things mix and mingle. You cannot contain polluted air on your own property but you can attempt to stop creating the pollution in the first place- and in a free market, that adds costs your competitors don't have to face if they don't want to so your being "clean" could price you out against your competitors. Thus you have no economic incentive to stop polluting. The market is saying you should continue to dump waste into air and water.


2 criticisms:

1. You are assuming that the mickey mouse justice system we have, which is over bloated and priced out of the common man's ability to withstand a multi-billion dollar corporation, is still in place to decide these matters. Monopoly justice provision needs to be addressed before you can repair, restore and build up proper property rights.

1b. If I own a river that is being illegally dumped in I have the incentive to stop the destruction of my property value. Currently the government is asleep at the wheel with collective ownership of public lands and waterways. Soviet Russia was famous under socialism for its levels of environmental destruction.

2.Water co-ops and free associations of large bodies of water would be formed as joint guardianship...You might never be able to stop trespassing and dumping but you have a much better chance of policing it if the resource is owned. Otherwise, you have the government pretending they have eyes on every square inch of public lands and water - which is an absurd and impossible notion.

2b Private water means private water products and services...Drinking water would be the concern of entrepreneurs, Swimming recreation, aquaculture...etc. Pollution would not be in the owners best interest.

Define polluted air? Science can forensically detect it..environmental forensics would flourish under a free market justice system.
 
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Only to people who recognize them?



And what if I don't accept that 3rd party's justice? And what if he wants to use his own?



Wait, that's after we agree, what if we don't agree?



And what if they too never agreed to a justice system?



You seem to assume that there's at least one justice system everybody will happily accept. What if 99% of the people accepted system A, and 1% denies whatever the 99% wants? What do you do to the 1%? Are you going to force them to accept your system or let them violate you and get away with it?

If you thought that this system more unjust than the current system, you could not participate and a decision would be rendered without you...the collections man would serve justice if needed.

I do not assume 1 justice system...Many insurance justice providers would see to it that higher level conversions between different laws systems take place...There would be many insurances companies offering different recognizable law sytems; different law systems would begin to harmonize over time. You could pick which law system you wished to be insured under (variety).

The insurance companies would recognize each others laws systems and conversions and build on them as conflict is wasted profits...and troublemakers like yourself would be paying high premiums or not covered at all.
 
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If you thought that this system more unjust than the current system, you could not participate and a decision would be rendered without you...the collections man would serve justice if needed.

Basically you'd force your justice on me.

I do not assume 1 justice system...Many insurance justice providers would see to it that higher level conversions between different laws systems take place...There would be many insurances companies offering different recognizable law sytems; different law systems would begin to harmonize over time. You could pick which law system you wished to be insured under (variety).

And if I choose none, i'm free from justice enforecement, right?

The insurance companies would recognize each others laws systems and conversions and build on them as conflict is wasted profits...and troublemakers like yourself would be paying high premiums or not covered at all.

what forces insurance companies to recognize each other's systems? why do you assume being uncovered is necessarily bad? it is no different than a person fleeing justice and evading taxes today, sure he might not have the protection citizens enjoy, but he might be happy to be free from 'justice'.
 
Basically you'd force your justice on me.



And if I choose none, i'm free from justice enforecement, right?



what forces insurance companies to recognize each other's systems? why do you assume being uncovered is necessarily bad? it is no different than a person fleeing justice and evading taxes today, sure he might not have the protection citizens enjoy, but he might be happy to be free from 'justice'.

Justice is forced on you now...where is your bravado about this ?

Conflict between two insurance companies result in lost profits and higher premiums and lost customers to the non fighting insurance companies who are enjoying the new found profits. As for you and your great 'look at me I'm Jesse James' act, ever watch Dog the Bounty Hunter? Collections and restitution under a libertarian society means 2 eyes for an eye.

You assume that you could just run away...well It would be as hard as it is now, if not harder under a for profit justice system...You would have a dollar sign hovering over your head for any one who could get you - citizens arrest would take on a whole new aspect. .
 
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Conflict between to insurance companies result in lost profits and higher premiums and lost customers to the non fighting insurance companies who are enjoying the new found profits. As for you and your great 'look at me I'm Jesse James' act, ever watch Dog the Bounty Hunter? Collections and restitution under a libertarian society means 2 eyes for an eye.

As long as you admit you're using force against a person against his will, that's all I needed to know.

You assume that you could just run away...well It would be as hard as it is now, if not harder under a for profit justice system...You would have a dollar sign hovering over your head for any one who could get you - citizens arrest would take on a whole new aspect. .

what's to stop rich people from putting fake bounties on their competitors or killing poor people for fun? You admitted the system allows people to use force against another's will, now you add in the profit motive. So isn't it basically whoever has most money, perpetuates his system and exploits it?
 
As long as you admit you're using force against a person against his will, that's all I needed to know.



what's to stop rich people from putting fake bounties on their competitors or killing poor people for fun? You admitted the system allows people to use force against another's will, now you add in the profit motive. So isn't it basically whoever has most money, perpetuates his system and exploits it?

If you have not harmed my person or property in any way then I can't force my justice on you...

So thieves and murders can claim that violence and coercion not be used against them? They could claim the non aggression axiom? They forfeited this in their actions.. Either you haven't the slightest concept of justice, or you are just reaching for responses. Personally, I think you lost the debate a few posts back....but this is flimsy.

Putting fake bounties on people is an act of aggression and would be prosecuted accordingly.
 
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If you have not harmed my person or property in any way then I can't force my justice on you...

What's stopping you? Just because you're nice? Or is there somebody else forcing you? Whoever is forcing you to abide by non-aggression, what's stopping them from abusing their power?

So thieves and murders can claim that violence and coercion not be used against them?

That is correct, never heard of people who don't play fair?

They could claim the non aggression axiom?

No, they don't. But people who claim it probably want to keep their promises.

They forfeited this in their actions.. Either you haven't the slightest concept of justice, or you are just reaching for responses. Personally, I think you lost the debate a few posts back....but this is flimsy.

They forfeited just because they didn't play by your rules? Says who?

Putting fake bounties on people is an act of aggression and would be prosecuted accordingly.

And who would prosecute them? People with more money and better insurance companies?
 
It truly is. And the global alarmists deny that the Sun has any bearing on Climate Change. It is really silly.


Scientists Trace Heat Wave To Massive Star At Center Of Solar System


According to scientists, the large star could be described as a tremendous ball of energy.

PASADENA, CA—Groundbreaking new findings announced Monday suggest the record-setting heat wave plaguing much of the United States may be due to radiation emitted from an enormous star located in the center of the solar system.

Scientists believe the star, which they have named G2V65, may in fact be the same bright yellow orb seen arcing over the sky day after day, and given its extreme heat and proximity to Earth, it is likely not only to have caused the heat wave, but to be responsible for every warm day in human history.

"Our measurements indicate the massive amount of energy this thing gives off is able to travel 93 million miles and reach our planet is as little as eight and a half minutes," said Professor Mitch Kivens, an astronomer at the California Institute of Technology. "While we can't see them, we're fairly certain these infrared rays strike Earth's surface, become trapped by the atmosphere, and just heat everything up like a great big oven."

"We

originally thought that if this star was producing temperatures of 100-plus in the South and Midwest, it must be at least 100 degrees itself," Kivens added. "But it turns out it's far, far hotter than that, with a surface temperature of nearly 10,900 degrees Fahrenheit."

Kivens and his CalTech colleagues said this intense radiation, which results from constant nuclear reactions converting hydrogen to helium in the star's core, could also account for why the orb in the sky is extremely bright and difficult to stare at directly.

While scientists initially assumed the heat and luminescence of the star must make it the largest in the universe—a theory lent credence by the star appearing much bigger than other objects in the sky—they said the data actually appear to refute such a notion.

"Apparently it's gigantic simply because it's closer to us than any other star," Kivens said. "Which would also account for why we feel this particular star's heat during the day but are not warmed by the tiny blinking stars we see at night."

"It's interesting stuff," he added.

According to Kivens, the discovery has prompted researchers to explore the possibility that a variety of phenomena accompanying the heat wave could also be linked to the star, including taller grass, hot car seats, red skin burns, and sweating "even when one has just been standing there and hasn't been running around or anything."

An additional study is reportedly being conducted to determine if the unexplained shrinking of puddles until they disappear may be caused by star-hotness soaking up all the loose water. Moreover, scientists reportedly believe the heat emitted from the glowing orb could potentially be the reason why it is uncomfortable to walk on asphalt barefoot.

When asked if anything could be done to prevent or counteract the star's heat production, Kivens expressed skepticism.

"No, for the foreseeable future, I think we're locked into orbit with this thing," he said. "Although the star seems to disappear every night, 24-hour reports from around the world seem to indicate the star never leaves Earth entirely."

Residents of heat- and drought-stricken regions welcomed the findings, thankful to finally have an explanation for the high temperatures, if no relief from them.

"That makes sense, because it's usually hotter when that [star] is up in the air," said Stillwater, OK resident Asher Arps, 31, speaking to reporters as temperature rose to 110 degrees over the weekend. "I knew it lit things up, of course, but I didn't realize it could make things hot."

"The big star heats the earth, and the moon cools it—I get it," he added.

As to potential applications of the new discovery, experts acknowledge the possibilities could be limitless.

"This is a watershed moment," renewable energy specialist Dr. Martin Flint said. "Who knows where this could lead? Perhaps we could develop a method of harnessing these big star rays and transforming them into some sort of ecologically friendly power source."

"Wait, what am I saying?" he said, laughing. "I'm getting ahead of myself. We still don't understand how it's possible for that thing to be up in the sky in January when it's freezing outside."

http://www.theonion.com/articles/scientists-trace-heat-wave-to-massive-star-at-cent,21088/
 
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This is a heck of a good site. For each 173 arguments, there is a "basic", "intermediate" and "advanced" level explanation:

For example, for the question: "is the sun causing global warming?"

They have a Twitter answer: "In the last 35 years of global warming, sun and climate have been going in opposite directions" for those that need a quick retort.

Then they have three level of answers:
http://www.skepticalscience.com/solar-activity-sunspots-global-warming-basic.htm
http://www.skepticalscience.com/solar-activity-sunspots-global-warming-intermediate.htm
http://www.skepticalscience.com/solar-activity-sunspots-global-warming-advanced.htm

You won't see this kind of detailed, fact based explanations form the other side. It's good work.
 
Who actually believes #2? ... That the science says that the Sun is not the cause of climate change?

You're they type of guy that needs the Twitter response: "In the last 35 years of global warming, sun and climate have been going in opposite directions"
 
This is a heck of a good site. For each 173 arguments, there is a "basic", "intermediate" and "advanced" level explanation:

For example, for the question: "is the sun causing global warming?"

They have a Twitter answer: "In the last 35 years of global warming, sun and climate have been going in opposite directions" for those that need a quick retort.

Then they have three level of answers:
http://www.skepticalscience.com/solar-activity-sunspots-global-warming-basic.htm
http://www.skepticalscience.com/solar-activity-sunspots-global-warming-intermediate.htm
http://www.skepticalscience.com/solar-activity-sunspots-global-warming-advanced.htm

You won't see this kind of detailed, fact based explanations form the other side. It's good work.

LOL. It is BS, but you get to believe whatever you want to believe and they will tax you for it.
 
LOL. It is BS, but you get to believe whatever you want to believe and they will tax you for it.

I also don't believe the state is the solution. If we paid the correct price for energy, there would be a lot less human made global warming.

The above site and the 173 answers have nothing to do with the state and taxation. It simply makes the case as to whether or not the planet is warming up. It's clear that it is, and I believe that in part humans are the cause.

Now about what needs to be done? Oil subsidies for one need to go. The middle east wars need to stop. We need to open up trading with arab countries and make friends with them.

The price of non-renewable energy will go up, naturally. Renewable energy will go down in price, naturally, and we will reduce CO2 production.
 
I do not buy the argument that CO2 causes climate change. CO2 levels rise and fall due to warming and cooling of the Earth caused by solar activity. When the Earth warms up, CO2 levels rise. When the Earth cools, CO2 levels fall. That's what the real science says.
 
I do not buy the argument that CO2 causes climate change. CO2 levels rise and fall due to warming and cooling of the Earth caused by solar activity. When the Earth warms up, CO2 levels rise. When the Earth cools, CO2 levels fall. That's what the real science says.
I believe the amount of CO2 dissolved in the oceans is greater when they are cooler as cool water will hold more CO2. This means, when the oceans warm, they release some of their dissolved CO2 and thus the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere increases. Not to worry though, as the carbon cycle then goes into overdrive and the CO2 dissolved in the rainwater, dissolves the lime stone, making calcium carbonate. This calcium carbonate then runs into the oceans sequestering that very same carbon dioxide that was released. Of course this all takes time and thus there is a slight imbalance at times. This of course in time, all balances out.
 
I believe the amount of CO2 dissolved in the oceans is greater when they are cooler as cool water will hold more CO2. This means, when the oceans warm, they release some of their dissolved CO2 and thus the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere increases. Not to worry though, as the carbon cycle then goes into overdrive and the CO2 dissolved in the rainwater, dissolves the lime stone, making calcium carbonate. This calcium carbonate then runs into the oceans sequestering that very same carbon dioxide that was released. Of course this all takes time and thus there is a slight imbalance at times. This of course in time, all balances out.

I could not say it that eloquently, but exactly that ^.
 
You're they type of guy that needs the Twitter response: "In the last 35 years of global warming, sun and climate have been going in opposite directions"

Oh. I thought you were being satirical.


Scientists Trace Heat Wave To Massive Star At Center Of Solar System


According to scientists, the large star could be described as a tremendous ball of energy.

PASADENA, CA—Groundbreaking new findings announced Monday suggest the record-setting heat wave plaguing much of the United States may be due to radiation emitted from an enormous star located in the center of the solar system.

Scientists believe the star, which they have named G2V65, may in fact be the same bright yellow orb seen arcing over the sky day after day, and given its extreme heat and proximity to Earth, it is likely not only to have caused the heat wave, but to be responsible for every warm day in human history.

"Our measurements indicate the massive amount of energy this thing gives off is able to travel 93 million miles and reach our planet is as little as eight and a half minutes," said Professor Mitch Kivens, an astronomer at the California Institute of Technology. "While we can't see them, we're fairly certain these infrared rays strike Earth's surface, become trapped by the atmosphere, and just heat everything up like a great big oven."

"We

originally thought that if this star was producing temperatures of 100-plus in the South and Midwest, it must be at least 100 degrees itself," Kivens added. "But it turns out it's far, far hotter than that, with a surface temperature of nearly 10,900 degrees Fahrenheit."

Kivens and his CalTech colleagues said this intense radiation, which results from constant nuclear reactions converting hydrogen to helium in the star's core, could also account for why the orb in the sky is extremely bright and difficult to stare at directly.

While scientists initially assumed the heat and luminescence of the star must make it the largest in the universe—a theory lent credence by the star appearing much bigger than other objects in the sky—they said the data actually appear to refute such a notion.

"Apparently it's gigantic simply because it's closer to us than any other star," Kivens said. "Which would also account for why we feel this particular star's heat during the day but are not warmed by the tiny blinking stars we see at night."

"It's interesting stuff," he added.

According to Kivens, the discovery has prompted researchers to explore the possibility that a variety of phenomena accompanying the heat wave could also be linked to the star, including taller grass, hot car seats, red skin burns, and sweating "even when one has just been standing there and hasn't been running around or anything."

An additional study is reportedly being conducted to determine if the unexplained shrinking of puddles until they disappear may be caused by star-hotness soaking up all the loose water. Moreover, scientists reportedly believe the heat emitted from the glowing orb could potentially be the reason why it is uncomfortable to walk on asphalt barefoot.

When asked if anything could be done to prevent or counteract the star's heat production, Kivens expressed skepticism.

"No, for the foreseeable future, I think we're locked into orbit with this thing," he said. "Although the star seems to disappear every night, 24-hour reports from around the world seem to indicate the star never leaves Earth entirely."

Residents of heat- and drought-stricken regions welcomed the findings, thankful to finally have an explanation for the high temperatures, if no relief from them.

"That makes sense, because it's usually hotter when that [star] is up in the air," said Stillwater, OK resident Asher Arps, 31, speaking to reporters as temperature rose to 110 degrees over the weekend. "I knew it lit things up, of course, but I didn't realize it could make things hot."

"The big star heats the earth, and the moon cools it—I get it," he added.

As to potential applications of the new discovery, experts acknowledge the possibilities could be limitless.

"This is a watershed moment," renewable energy specialist Dr. Martin Flint said. "Who knows where this could lead? Perhaps we could develop a method of harnessing these big star rays and transforming them into some sort of ecologically friendly power source."

"Wait, what am I saying?" he said, laughing. "I'm getting ahead of myself. We still don't understand how it's possible for that thing to be up in the sky in January when it's freezing outside."

http://www.theonion.com/articles/scientists-trace-heat-wave-to-massive-star-at-cent,21088/
 
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