[Milei WINS!] Javier Milei, Austrian econ. prof. & ancap, runs for president of Argentina

hey everyone, been a while!

I know he isn't a perfect candidate, but I am pretty thrilled to see Argentina getting excited about some of the very things we keep arguing for.
 
Argentina seems to have being hit with a regime change.


Argentina's pro-Israel and far-right presidential front-runner



This clown reminds me of Boris Johnson.

People forget that there was a time, Boris Johnson claimed to be libertarian leaning. How about the new fire brand new PM in Italy that talked all that nonsense about limiting migrant boats? She got into power and has done thing about it. She is too busy now opposing Russia in Ukraine.

I am not even saying someone should be pro Russia but whenever you have these neocons in power, they end up getting too preoccupied with it to do what they were elected to do
 
LMAO

You really are desperate, aren't you?

"None of that other stuff matters, because - are you sitting down for this? are you ready? - he wants to visit the United States and Israel!"

:eek:

Keep 'em coming! They're a hoot!

:tears:

Keep ignoring the red flags. Anyway, I will like to see the excuses you make when his term ends.
 
Keep ignoring the red flags. Anyway, I will like to see the excuses you make when his term ends.

That knife cuts both ways though.

Regardless, I think the folks here who are happy about his election are happy because of the things he talks about; whereas the naysayers here are already convinced that he's a plant from TPTB before he's even struck a lick.

If he does turn out to be fake, I'll have no problem calling him out.
 
Keep ignoring the red flags. Anyway, I will like to see the excuses you make when his term ends.

Nobody here will be making excuses for him if he fails to keep his promises. Nobody here owes anybody any excuses for being thrilled that an outspoken libertarian (at the very least in domestic matters) won an election. Nobody here is terribly surprised to hear him kiss the asses of people powerful enough to make the lives of Argentines difficult, and who would do just to spite him.

If you were looking to hang with people inclined to ignore red flags, there are whole forums full of Trump bots out there.
 
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That knife cuts both ways though.

Regardless, I think the folks here who are happy about his election are happy because of the things he talks about; whereas the naysayers here are already convinced that he's a plant from TPTB before he's even struck a lick.

If he does turn out to be fake, I'll have no problem calling him out.

I truly hope he's for real but after getting my hopes up with a few politicians lately, I have become too cynical that I am just going to wait and see. Because if he has a bad run as president, everybody will just use him as an example of what would happen if we elect a libertarian president. And no, people won't take the excuse that he wasn't a real libertarian or govt got in his way.
 
Waiting on firestarter to weigh in on this guy's blood-drinking Anglo-Dutch something-something connections complete with photo-shopped images exposing him.

image.png
 
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Nobody here will be making excuses for him if he fails to keep his promises. Nobody here owes anybody any excuses for being thrilled that an outspoken libertarian (at the very least in domestic matters) won an election. Nobody here is terribly surprised to hear him kiss the asses of people powerful enough to make the lives of Argentines difficult, and who would do just to spite him.

If you were looking to hang with people inclined to ignore red flags, there are whole forums full of Trump bots out there.

I am really worried about the people he trying so hard to appease. TPDB are not idiots, they know he what he is saying about the state and that if his intentions are true, then it will hurt them. These people dont give away their support for free, they usually want stuff back in return.
 
I truly hope he's for real but after getting my hopes up with a few politicians lately, I have become too cynical that I am just going to wait and see. Because if he has a bad run as president, everybody will just use him as an example of what would happen if we elect a libertarian president. And no, people won't take the excuse that he wasn't a real libertarian or govt got in his way.

That's a valid concern. It would pay us to ferret out any quiet economic sanctions against Argentines and expose them all. Let everyone see this dirty game.
 
Also, does anyone know his position on lockdowns. I know he got the vaccine but also don't know if he opposed the mandate. If he did not oppose or speak up against the lockdowns, then I don't trust him.
 
It's shocking how naive some posters can be concerning this man, his sponsorship, and how he will change the sovereignty of Argentina.

The number one rule of monetary ownership is that if you're going to have a central bank, it should not be owned, and its currency issued by,
a foreign government, let alone - a foreign group of families - who all share one specific ethnic and religious background.

Yet, that is what sells for "liberty" to the naive these days.

I might add, that as Americans, we should not applaud when another country "adopts" the dollar. The dollar is constitutionally ONLY a domestic currency. It was always meant to be a domestic currency, with its values and its measures and its issuances all fully controlled by American duly-elected representatives. Doing away with those principles is not something Dr. Paul ever approved of. Allowing foreign countries to be flooded with dollars managed by their own politicians and private bankers is operationally deleterious to the American people because it offshores and dilutes our own RIGHTS.

I hope the plot of his sponsorship group is thwarted and rejected and fought against by the Argentinian people.
Unfortunately, one may be sure, the foreign ownership and corporate predation of that country is sure to explode.
 
"We let Ben Shapiro do our thinking for us."

*yawn*

I also let Joe Biden and Bill Kristol do my thinking for me.

I don't doubt it.

Keep ignoring the red flags.

I haven't ignored anything.

Exhibit A:
Anyway, I will like to see the excuses you make when his term ends.

Don't hold your breath.

No excuses will be made by me (nor have I ever given you or anyone else any reason to think I would make them).

Unlike the "ZOMG!1!! Ben Shapiro!" and "Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon" crowds and their ilk, I am not a personality cultist.

I am and will be willing to criticize him for any interventionist or otherwise anti-libertarian policies he actually implements and enforces (regarding which, see the following quote). Otherwise, Milei's personal opinions about Israel, Ukraine, etc. are of no concern to me.

Name one interventionist policy he has said he intends to implement. [1]

Just one.

Go ahead, I'll wait ...



[1] And by "interventionist policy" I mean something specific he has said he intends to have the Argentinian government do (or threaten to do) to forcibly involve itself in the affairs of some other country or countries.
 
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It's shocking how naive some posters can be concerning this man, his sponsorship, and how he will change the sovereignty of Argentina.

The number one rule of monetary ownership is that if you're going to have a central bank...

What does this have to do with Milei? We've already established that his campaign promise was no legal tender laws. If anybody in Argentina needs to worry about whether it's moral to prop up the Fed or any other central bank, it's the people trying to decide what to use for money now that they're not forced to use the local official worthless lettuce.

They're the ones who may not find enough other substitutes besides the FRN lying around while they get to work rebuilding their economy. Right? So what does it have to do with this guy? He hasn't told them what to use for money so far.

We aren't fascists and we aren't communists. We approve of people who neither demand nor forbid a thing. No libertarian demanded Ron Paul say, competing currencies except the ones I don't approve of. Go tell the citizens of Argentina that greenback money bad. It's their decision now.
 
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It's shocking how naive some posters can be concerning this man, his sponsorship, and how he will change the sovereignty of Argentina.

The number one rule of monetary ownership is that if you're going to have a central bank...

What does this have to do with Milei? We've already established that his campaign promise was no legal tender laws. If anybody in Argentina needs to worry about whether it's moral to prop up the Fed or any other central bank, it's the people trying to decide what to use for money now that they're not forced to use the local official worthless lettuce.

They're the ones who may not find enough other substitutes besides the FRN lying around while they get to work rebuilding their economy. Right? So what does it have to do with this guy? He hasn't told them what to use for money so far.

We aren't fascists and we aren't communists. We approve of people who neither demand nor forbid a thing. No libertarian demanded Ron Paul say, competing currencies except the ones I don't approve of. Go tell the citizens of Argentina that greenback money bad. It's their decision now.
↓↓↓​

[... It] would be so much better if Argentines were forced to continue using Argentinian pesos instead ... :rolleyes:

If I had to choose between the United States dollar and the Argentina peso, it's not even a contest.
[bold + underline + size emphasis added]​
The Economist: And if you eliminate the central bank here, wouldn’t Argentina still be governed by a central bank, but just by the Fed instead?

Javier Milei: But again, it is a system of currency competition. That is to say, you can liquidate the central bank in dollars, but the currency you use can be any currency.

I mean, that’s another part of intellectual dishonesty.

The Economist: So the idea is that for a period of time there would be a system of competing currencies?

Javier Milei: There will always be that, there will always be currency competition.

The Economist: And in this context, the dollar has won

Javier Milei: Well Argentines have historically chosen the dollar, but it does not have to be the dollar. If you are an oil company, you can make your contracts in WTI, who cares? If you are in gas, in BTU. And if you are a farmer and you farm soybeans, you can choose the price of soybeans in Chicago.

The Economist: But if the government’s big goal is to eliminate the central bank and at the end of the day you will still be dependent on the US central bank [is that a contradiction]?

Javier Milei: The main objective is to exterminate inflation.

The Economist: By eliminating the central bank

Javier Milei: The central bank is a major cause of inflation. And yes it is a philosophical question because stealing is wrong.

It is up to the agents to decide whether they want to be robbed by the American state, by the European Union or by the...

The Economist: So the Fed is fine, but the central bank of Argentina is not...

Javier Milei: No, neither is the Fed.

The Economist: But it is the lesser evil.

Javier Milei: Yes, now we are getting there! That is the point. If I tell you there was a central bank that generated 100% inflation during the 21st century, what would you call it?

The Economist: You would call it a scam.

Javier Milei: Well, it is indeed a scam and well, the Federal Reserve is just that.

The Economist: A scam.

Javier Milei: All central banks are a scam. The Federal Reserve in the last... so far in the 21st century, it has generated 100% inflation.

So the US central bank, the Federal Reserve is bad. Then there are central banks that are very bad. Then there are those that are appallingly bad. And then there is the Central Bank of the Argentine Republic, which is the worst thing in the universe.

The Economist: Could crypto play a role?

Javier Milei: No, no... I don’t know, that is the decision of agents. For example, in Guatemala, companies engaged in coffee production issued their own currency.

In fact, currency is a private sector invention, not the invention of a bureaucrat.
 
What does this have to do with Milei? We've already established that his campaign promise was no legal tender laws. If anybody in Argentina needs to worry about whether it's moral to prop up the Fed or any other central bank, it's the people trying to decide what to use for money now that they're not forced to use the local official worthless lettuce.

They're the ones who may not find enough other substitutes besides the FRN lying around while they get to work rebuilding their economy. Right? So what does it have to do with this guy? He hasn't told them what to use for money so far.

We aren't fascists and we aren't communists. We approve of people who neither demand nor forbid a thing. No libertarian demanded Ron Paul say, competing currencies except the ones I don't approve of. Go tell the citizens of Argentina that greenback money bad. It's their decision now.

We'll see what he can actually do. I read that he wants to shut down the Argentine bank and ban pesos totally, switching to the Federal Reserve Note.

He's probably best off not trying to shut down the domestic currency, or its charter, a sovereign bank. If he wants to allow higher free-flow of US dollars or any other currency, that's not a problem. It's entirely different to do that, which most countries do, than to do the former.

The power of the purse and legal tender resides in the people, the citizens of any country. To say otherwise is just globalism with a libertarian veneer.
 
The Economics of Javier Milei
https://mises.org/power-market/economics-javier-milei
{David Howden | 20 November 2023}

The election of Javier Milei brings the first anarchocapitalist world leader in history. Although prolific in the Spanish-speaking world, English speakers know very little of the Argentine´s views. The fact that he heads the Libertarian Party of Argentina certainly hints at what direction his politics run.

Earlier this year, Philipp Bagus and I edited a two-volume book in honor of Jesús Huerta de Soto. Milei wrote a chapter entitled “Capitalism, Socialism, and the Neoclassical Trap.” To my knowledge, it is Milei´s only writing made directly in English for an English audience.

If anyone doubts Milei´s credentials, the chapter is a scathing critique of neoclassical growth theory. It also offers a full-blown Rothbardian alternative. Mises´s work on interventionism and Hayek´s knowledge problem form the basis of his analysis.

Speaking of neoclassical economic analysis, Milei writes:

Note that whenever situations that do not match the mathematical structure arise, they are considered “market failures”, and that is where the government appears to correct those failures. However, to successfully solve this problem, it is assumed that the government knows the utility function of all individuals (preferences) for the past, the present, the future, the time preference rate and knows the state of the current technology and all future enhancements, along with their respective amortization rates. In short, to solve the problem in question, the government should be able to master a significant amount of information that, by definition, individuals themselves ignore or are not able to handle, which exposes that the idea of the welfare state acting on the market to correct failures is a contradiction.

Furthermore, Milei concludes that:

when it is made clear that the correction of market failures by the government as proposed in the neoclassical paradigm is conceptually invalid, taking into consideration that the only ones who can internalize those effects are individuals, once the artificial separation of decision-making processes is eliminated, there will no longer be any reason for government intervention, which will not only stop the socialist advance but will also allow us to counterattack.

This is not your grandfather´s South American leader who politicizes under the influence of neoclassical "Chicago Boy" economists. Milei is a full-blown libertarian. His Libertarian Party won yesterday´s run-off election by carrying nineteen of twenty-two Argentine states and 56% of the popular vote. A plurality of Argentine voters must also be fed up after decades of socialism.
 
He's probably best off not trying to shut down the domestic currency, or its charter, a sovereign bank.

He doesn't need to "shut down" anything. Simply strip the peso of its privileges, and it will go the way of all paper currencies (which have a 100% proven historical failure-rate).

If he wants to allow higher free-flow of US dollars or any other currency, that's not a problem.

QED

Everything else in this discussion is a bunch of smoke-and-mirrors. Milei is saying that Argentines should be free to reject the peso and to use the USD without any burdens (added taxes, statutory exchange-rates, etc.) Nothing complicated or even controversial about his position on this... but it's amazing how much mega-cope is on display in this thread over it...
 
[...]

[I expect] some (many ?) of his own voters/supporters to be alienated or disenamored by any significant policy successes he manages to eke out. Quite a few of his voters did not support him because they were ideologically motivated by libertarian sentiment - they supported him because he presented a vehement defiance of and opposition to the horribly corrupt and self-serving system that has been in place in Argentina for decades.

If the disruptions and dislocations that must inevitably occur in the wake of any significant policy successes he manages to achieve result in enough people becoming disaffected with those policies (because, for example, they end up losing access to any "free shit" to which they had become accustomed), then the fickle "masses" may turn upon him, as well. (And you can be sure TPTB will do all they can to stoke such resentments.)

But perhaps I will be pleasantly surprised in that regard as well. I hope so. We shall see.

Have Argentine Voters FINALLY Chosen Liberty? Time Will Tell
https://mises.org/power-market/have-argentine-voters-finally-chosen-liberty-time-will-tell
{Octavio Bermudez | 20 November 2023}

[bold & bold+underline emphasis added - OB]

A historical event has taken place, not only for the libertarian movement but for the history of the world. The first libertarian president has been elected in none other country than Argentina.

The Argentinian people faced a dichotomy, either continue with the socialist road to serfdom embodied by the ruling Peronist regime or adopt a radical change towards liberty, the leader of said change being Javier Milei, self-proclaimed Rothbardian and anarcho-capitalist. Finally, with more than 55 percent of the votes, Argentinians elected Milei as their new president.

Argentina’s situation is critical and the people know it. 142,7 percent accumulated inflation this year, 40 percent of the population under poverty levels and at least 80 percent of public debt in terms of GDP, just to mention some of the main economic problems. Crime -which is rampant in many parts of the country- is the other main concern of the public that Milei has had to address in his campaign. He has done so mainly through his vice-president Victoria Villarruel, expert on defense and security matters.

Argentinians chose a free market path, a liberty road towards prosperity and justice.

Now, besides the celebration and enthusiasm that such an occasion merits, we libertarians (especially Argentinian libertarians) must draw upon the wisdom of the British economist Alfred Marshall who said that one must stay on our toes to keep our heart warm. Milei has introduced many libertarians’ ideas to Argentinian political discourse but not all of them have been received favorably by the general public or the media. Milei has had to engage in retreatism due to backlash regarding some free market-oriented ideas such as a voucher system for education, eliminating gun regulations, 100 percent bank reserves and privatizing both education and the health system.

Milei has offered as much liberty as the Argentinian people are willing to accept. Socialist and collectivist ideals still prevail in major parts of the population, it would be an error to affirm that even half of the electors that choose Milei are full libertarians. Milei’s upcoming administration will be a test, if it succeeds in pushing for a libertarian program, then more people will rally behind the Gadsden flag and Argentina will serve as a beacon of freedom in Latin America.

Even more important is the cultural shift that has taken place due to Milei’s political activism. Books by the Austrian School of Economics and libertarians can be found in any bookstore (before Milei, those works were harder to access, almost clandestine) and liberty friendly universities and programs are now more frequented. Being a classical liberal or a libertarian is no longer a cultural crime in Argentina.

A libertarian hardcore has been formed and continues to grow, they are the vanguard of the movement, convincing lay people to support Milei’s reforms. True enough, many times they may not convince everyone to embrace libertarianism but at least they persuade them not to oppose it. That’s how the libertarian spirit in Argentina can grow.

Milei’s plan is a moderate one if seen through ideal lenses but as I have already pointed out, it is the most libertarian program that could be advanced upon without being ostracized by the public and mainstream media. Compromises were made after the general elections. The Libertarian-Republican alliance was formed to confront the Peronist regime in the ballot boxes, Milei allied himself with his former competitor Patricia Bullrich and former president Mauricio Macri to rally the necessary votes to win in the ballotage against the leftist Peronist candidate Sergio Massa. The alliance succeeded in calling for the votes necessary to win. It was an epic campaign, thousands attended Milei’s rallies crying out “Liberty!” In many parts of the country, shouts of joy and relief were heard when the Peronist candidate recognized his defeat on live TV. I of course joined the people in the cries for victory.

Bearing in mind the compromises made in the alliance to defeat Peronism, the most crucial libertarian proposals such as slashing public spending and taxes, deregulating the economy and labor market, free trade, privatization of public companies (like the oil company “YPF” and the state airline “Aerolineas Argentinas”) and abolition of the central bank are going to be implemented, at least on paper. Milei, although an anarcho-capitalist has had to moderate in order to gain office, once taking the reins of the state we shall see how much of the freedom program he proposes is implemented.

Will it be a revolution of liberty? History will only tell.
 
I am really worried about the people he trying so hard to appease. TPDB are not idiots, they know he what he is saying about the state and that if his intentions are true, then it will hurt them. These people dont give away their support for free, they usually want stuff back in return.

No doubt. Pray for him is all I can say. Might be we see what would've happened to Ron Paul had he won. (that is, if he is legit, if he's not legit then it's no loss)
 
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