Middle-class fleeing California invasion.

[Dieseler]

i stated in an earlier post there are two real reasons to oppose mexicans coming here and they are the welfare state and/or xenophobia.
if you state something like "mexicans are driving up food prices because they eat food" and this is your argument against mexicans being here then you might be a closet xenophone.

There you go again.
I have used the term Illegal Immigrants as I have no idea where these people are coming from.
What the fuck is a xenophone?
Did someone hi jack your RPF handle?
Please stay on topic or I'll have to consider you to be trolling.

Brent, do you remember the nice conversation you and I had over a thread I made about this time last year?
I think the thread was titled something like, "There is no racism in the NFL" or something another.
If you remember that thread please reiterate what you went on to say about the Arizona Cardinals owner after I waxed on so fondly about how team mates in the NFL show such bond with one another despite race or any other dividing factor. Even opposing teams exude this amazing camaraderie after a hard fought game.
I think you will remember if you really are Brent.

 

[bobbyw24]

There you go again.
I have used the term Illegal Immigrants as I have no idea where these people are coming from.
What the fuck is a xenophone?
Did someone hi jack your RPF handle?

"Illegal Alien" comes from the Federal law found at: 8 USC 1325

§ 1325. Improper entry by alien
How Current is This?
(a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection; misrepresentation and concealment of facts
Any alien who
(1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or
(2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or
(3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.
(b) Improper time or place; civil penalties
Any alien who is apprehended while entering (or attempting to enter) the United States at a time or place other than as designated by immigration officers shall be subject to a civil penalty of—
(1) at least $50 and not more than $250 for each such entry (or attempted entry); or
(2) twice the amount specified in paragraph (1) in the case of an alien who has been previously subject to a civil penalty under this subsection.
Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not in lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be imposed

 

[torchbearer]

Supply and demand applies when purchasing labor. The more unemployed, desperate workers, the less they will have to be paid. The skill and training required is a factor, in that it directly limits the number of workers able to do the job. It's supply and demand again. Dramatically increase the number of available workers without an increase in the number of jobs, and wages will decrease.

The value of the product is also a factor, but less so than the supply and demand of labor. The price of an ear of corn could go to $10 per ear and the crop pickers wouldn't see an additional dime. (Goldman Sachs would probably get the windfall somehow!). It would result in a lot more corn being planted the next season, but it would probably be at the loss of some other crop. The number of farm workers required could stay exactly the same.

My parents and their parents ran farms. i know how to price an ear of corn. I can't sell it for less than it took to produce it. It doesn't get any simpler than that.
If you increase my cost to produce it by giving me GM Union workers to harvest them- the price of your corn is going to be such that no one would buy it. farms go bust and next year- there is no corn.

 

[torchbearer]

There you go again.
I have used the term Illegal Immigrants as I have no idea where these people are coming from.
What the fuck is a xenophone?
Did someone hi jack your RPF handle?
Please stay on topic or I'll have to consider you to be trolling.

Brent, do you remember the nice conversation you and I had over a thread I made about this time last year?
I think the thread was titled something like, "There is no racism in the NFL" or something another.

Oh- you are taking this personal. i meant it as a matter of fact. i think my sociological perspective comes off wrong.
for example- i tell people most conversations between people are acts of manipulation. people get a negative view of what i said because the word manipulation is seen as evil, when in fact not evil.

i thought i explained this to bobby in the first few post of this thread when he took it personal and i'll explain why it was not personal at all.

 

[Dieseler]

Oh- you are taking this personal. i meant it as a matter of fact. i think my sociological perspective comes off wrong.
for example- i tell people most conversations between people are acts of manipulation. people get a negative view of what i said because the word manipulation is seen as evil, when in fact not evil.

i thought i explained this to bobby in the first few post of this thread when he took it personal and i'll explain why it was not personal at all.

If you do not wish for people to take things you say personally, then stick to the topic in heated discussions.
Ad Homs and personal remarks questioning ones character will be taken personally by anyone.
Talk to me like you would if you were right next to my face.
I'll do the same for you.
Sociologist do speak to people in person at times don't they?

 

[Brian4Liberty]

California needs to split into two separate states, preferrablly three, north, central, and southern.

This way the other state(s) could simply eliminate programs.

Yeah, California is way too big to be one State. Could probably be more than 3. We just need new state names. SoCal becomes "Aztlan". Greater San Francisco area becomes "New Asia". Central Valley becomes "Cropland". Northern Cal becomes "Homegrownland"...

 

[torchbearer]

If you do not wish for people to take things you say personally, then stick to the topic in heated discussions.
Ad Homs and personal remarks questioning ones character will be taken personally by anyone.
Talk to me like you would if you were right next to my face.
I'll do the same for you.

i didn't question anyone's character. that is what i'm trying to explain to you. i just stated the fact that xenophobes oppose illegal immigration. they share the position with people who know that immigration can't happen with a welfare state.

 

[Dieseler]

i didn't question anyone's character. that is what i'm trying to explain to you. i just stated the fact that xenophobes oppose illegal immigration. they share the position with people who know that immigration can't happen with a welfare state.

Well I don't consider myself a xenophone.. err, xenophobe but I do oppose illegal immigration for all of the reasons that I have stated previously.
Do you care to refute any of the points I made or counterpoints I made to your posts? Or are you just going to continue to practice Sociology in your own mind?

 

[torchbearer]

Well I don't consider myself a xenophone.. err, xenophobe but I do oppose illegal immigration for all of the reasons that I have stated previously.
Do you care to refute any of the points I made or counterpoints I made to your posts?

would i need to care about your positions if we each respected each other's right to hire whoever we want with our money and property?

 

[Brian4Liberty]

My parents and their parents ran farms. i know how to price an ear of corn. I can't sell it for less than it took to produce it. It doesn't get any simpler than that.
If you increase my cost to produce it by giving me GM Union workers to harvest them- the price of your corn is going to be such that no one would buy it. farms go bust and next year- there is no corn.

Absolutely. There is a minimum product price based on total production and business costs. You can't sell for less than that. Out here in California they overproduced grapes this year. Many vineyards left up to half their crops on the vines to reduce production. They couldn't sell them. Not sure if they can use those as raisins. Probably the wrong type of grape. Just letting the fruit rot on the vine.

 

[Dieseler]

would i need to care about your positions if we each respected each other's right to hire whoever we want with our money and property?

Absolutely you would, because your position affects my bottom line if I practice my business legally and you do not.

 

[torchbearer]

Absolutely you would, because your position affects my bottom line if I practice my business legally and you do not.

what right am I denying you? none. the government is denying you your right.
fight them like a man to have the right to hire who you want.

 

[Dieseler]

what right am I denying you? none. the government is denying you your right.
fight them like a man to have the right to hire who you want.

It would be far easier to fight you and you are the one breaking the law.
Why would I fight your battle?

 

[torchbearer]

It would be far easier to fight you and you are the one breaking the law.
Why would I fight your battle?

you don't have the right to tell me who i can hire with my money nor how much i can pay them. that isn't your affair. if you don't see that- then you deserve every bit of the government we have today.

 

[Dieseler]

you don't have the right to tell me who i can hire with my money nor how much i can pay them. that isn't your affair. if you don't see that- then you deserve every bit of the government we have today.

Actually I do have some rights in that regard and it is my affair if it affects my bottom line due to your taking an unfair business advantage over me due to using illegal labor. You might want to check into that. You do realize it is illegal to hire illegal immigrants?
Don't you?
Oh, I'm not speaking about Fantasy Island either. I'm speaking real world, United States, just so you know.
"It's the plane Boss, It's the plane."

 

[torchbearer]

Actually I do have some rights in that regard and it is my affair if it affects my bottom line due to your taking an unfair business advantage over me due to using illegal labor. You might want to check into that.

once you believe you have rights over other people, you placed yourself above them as a tyrant.
how can you give the government a right that you- yourself, do not have?
YOu don't have any right over me- over my body- over the fruits of my labor. You and the other fucking obama bots can take your "for the good of the community" crap and shove it up your asses. and you can take this post as personal.
don't tread on me.

 

[Dieseler]

once you believe you have rights over other people, you placed yourself above them as a tyrant.
how can you give the government a right that you- yourself, do not have?
YOu don't have any right over me- over my body- over the fruits of my labor. You and the other fucking obama bots can take your "for the good of the community" crap and shove it up your asses. and you can take this post as personal.
don't tread on me.

Hey, I hate to bust your bubble but this is not a new law we're talking about here that's just been shoved down your throat and it's not unconstitutional.
It's been that way for awhile.
Shocking!

 

[torchbearer]

Hey, I hate to bust your bubble but this is not a new law we're talking about here that's just been shoved down your throat and it's not unconstitutional.
It's been that way for awhile.
Shocking!

it is unconstitutional. congress doesn't have the power to regulate immigration. it can only determine how they are naturalized.
this was already discussed in this thread.
You have no rights over me. I have no king above me. period. don't even think about lording over me. we have a problem at that point.

 

[Dieseler]

Another thing.
I'm not anti government or an anarchist just so you know.
I firmly believe in Constitutional Government and I am all for upholding the law.
Any side tracking of the discussion or attempt to sidetrack the topic of this discussion will not work on me.

 

[torchbearer]

Another thing.
I'm not anti government or an anarchist just so you know.
I firmly believe in Constitutional Government and I am all for upholding the law.
Any side tracking of the discussion or attempt to sidetrack the topic of this discussion will not work on me.

so if the laws states niggers ride in the back of the bus- then you follow it because all laws must be just in a constitutional republic.