McCain eligible to be President or not?

[adam1mc]

This morning on the way to work I heard a brief snippit on the radio about John McCain and him possibly not being eligible for President of the United States. From my understanding, a person being born in a U.S. territory does not make a person eligible for the Presidency as they are not considered "Natural Born Citizen". If a person is born in Guam or Porta Rico, even though they are considered a citizen, they are not eligible. Correct?

McCain was born in the Canal zone on a Military base. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I fail to see how John McCain is a "Natural Born" citizen. If he isn't a Natural Born citizen then he isn't eligible to be President and I feel as though we should do something. If we could get McCain kicked out and the race were only down to Paul and Huckleberry then I would see that as really good news.

Can someone enlighten me about McCain's eligibility and what we should do about it if he is indeed not eligible?

 

[robert4rp08]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/28/u...userland&emc=rss&pagewanted=print&oref=slogin

 

[slamhead]

I think the general rule of law or interpretation of the natural-born clause is that if you are born to parents of which at least one is a citizen, it does not matter where you are born, you are a natural born citizen.

I think if this ever went to court McCain would be prevail. Reading from another post it was later clarified and what people argue is that this clarification was not worded properly. The spirit of the clarification was to give citizenship to anyone born of a US citizen.

As we know, it was never the intention of the framers that anyone born in the US is automatically a citizen but only people born to parents who are under the jurisdiction of the federal government which should not include people here illegally.

 

[adam1mc]

So it sounds like we need to find an attorney, setup a chip-in, and file suit on McCain for not being eligible for President of the United States. We'd need to have a court decide and give a definitive ruling.

 

[hillertexas]

I think the general rule of law or interpretation of the natural-born clause is that if you are born to parents of which at least one is a citizen, it does not matter where you are born, you are a natural born citizen.

I think you are right

 

[itshappening]

I think the general rule of law or interpretation of the natural-born clause is that if you are born to parents of which at least one is a citizen, it does not matter where you are born, you are a natural born citizen.

I think if this ever went to court McCain would be prevail. Reading from another post it was later clarified and what people argue is that this clarification was not worded properly. The spirit of the clarification was to give citizenship to anyone born of a US citizen.

As we know, it was never the intention of the framers that anyone born in the US is automatically a citizen but only people born to parents who are under the jurisdiction of the federal government which should not include people here illegally.

if you're born to US parents outside the US you can be a "naturalized" citizen, this is different to being a natural born citizen, it is a different citizen class, there is no difference though and all citizens are treated equally.... except those who want to be President

 

[homah]

Are we constitutionalists or not? I think it's pretty obvious that the founders when talking about "natural-born citizens" did not intend to exclude someone simply for having been born abroad due to his father being in the military.

 

[mczerone]

US Military Base.

Regardless of the horrible atrocities McCain would be capable of, I'm not going to argue that the son of a man who was serving the country isn't eligible for the POTUS because of a technicality.

I think you'd have more success looking into Obama's residency status.

 

[hillertexas]

http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/thepresidentandcabinet/a/presrequire.htm

Only native-born U.S. citizens (or those born abroad, but only to parents who were both citizens of the U.S.) may be president of the United States

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-are-the-requirements-to-run-for-president-in-the-united-states.htm

Under the terms of the United States Constitution, someone who wants to become the President must be a United States citizen who is at least 35 years old.

The terms of citizenship are interpreted very strictly. A President must be a natural born citizen, meaning that immigrants are not eligible to run for President, no matter how long they have lived in the United States. If a child of American citizens is born abroad, he or she is technically considered a natural born citizen, and can therefore hold Presidential office. In addition, a Presidential candidate must have actually lived in the United States for at least 14 years, presumably so that he or she is aware of general issues which impact the American populace.

 

[abe447]

This is stupid and stop bringing it up. He's eligible. Do you honestly believe that nobody brought this to attention in 2000 when he ran? Do you really believe that McCain would put himself through a whole year of campaigning if he wasn't even eligible to be President? He was born in a U.S. Territory to U.S. citizens and is eligible to be President so stop it!

 

[utrunner07]

So it sounds like we need to find an attorney, setup a chip-in, and file suit on McCain for not being eligible for President of the United States. We'd need to have a court decide and give a definitive ruling.

No, just sounds like you need to get real. I dislike McCain as much as the next guy but this is just not going to happen...you think a kid born on a military base in a foreign country to a farther in the US military (high ranking nonetheless in McCain's case) and a US citizen mother won't be eligible to be president...really are you that dumb or that desperate? Pick one, but those are the ONLY two explanations to your post.

 

[1000-points-of-fright]

if you're born to US parents outside the US you can be a "naturalized" citizen, this is different to being a natural born citizen, it is a different citizen class, there is no difference though and all citizens are treated equally.... except those who want to be President

Wrong. "Naturalized" is when a citizen of another nation becomes a US citizen through some immigration process... standard application, adoption, etc.

"Natural Born" is when you are born a US citizen either by being born on US territory or having one birth parent who is a US citizen regardless of the location. It's called "Natural Born" because you were "born" a US citizen "naturally".

If I have to hear this stupid argument against McCain again I'm gonna go natural born killer on someone's ass. Or would that be naturalized killer?

 

[slamhead]

if you're born to US parents outside the US you can be a "naturalized" citizen, this is different to being a natural born citizen, it is a different citizen class, there is no difference though and all citizens are treated equally.... except those who want to be President

The law specifies that a "naturalized" citizen is one who is born to an alien of another nation and has fulfilled all obligations to become a citizen.

The argument is that people born of US citizens abroad are "citizens by law". The gray area is whether citizen by law = Natural Born as it was never specifically stated when they tried to clarify it in 1798 IIRC.

But it is definitely something the Supreme Court would probably be interested in taking on. Why they are at it I wish they would clarify this from the 14th amendment..."and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" and stop birthright citizenship for children of illegal immigrants.

 

[mmink15]

Not the way to attack McCain. His voting record gives us all the ammo we need. Leave this story to others, it will only make the accusers look bad. Stick to the issues and voting records when "waking people up".

 

[rockandrollsouls]

The New York Times blows. Shame on them for writing an article like that...I thought their contributors there were supposed to be relatively intelligent.

 

[ButchHowdy]

Found this . . . is it true?


" . . . Franklin D. Roosevelt placed the Navy Hospital under the civil jurisdiction of the Canal Zone Government in conformity with the provisions of the Canal Zone Code as amended with Executive Order 8981 - NAVY HOSPITAL AREA, COCO SOLO, CANAL ZONE
December 17th, 1941. This happened years after McCains birth. McCain was not born in the Canal Zone, nor on a U.S. Navy base, but in the Republic of Panama. This is true for all children born in the hospital at Coco Solo prior to the Executive order which became effective December 17, 1941. The hospital was not on the Navy Base but was located between the Navy base and a town called Margarita . . ."

 

[patriotcalendar]

I think there are a few people here on the forums drinking NYT Koolaid.

I think the general rule of law or interpretation of the natural-born clause is that if you are born to parents of which at least one is a citizen, it does not matter where you are born, you are a natural born citizen.

I have to disagree.

First, if it is a law that determines your naturalization status (i.e. laws about birthright), then you are naturalized by law as opposed to natural-born (more about "natural-born" is below).

Second, the definition of natural-born can definitely be seen as open to challenge. In 2004, Don Nickles sponsored the Natural Born Citizen Act, which never made it out of committee. I don't have it in front of me, but I read an article written at the time in which Nickles was quoted as saying something like (paraphrased) "We need to address this definition before a challenge comes up in a presidential election."

Are we constitutionalists or not? I think it's pretty obvious that the founders when talking about "natural-born citizens" did not intend to exclude someone simply for having been born abroad due to his father being in the military.

Likewise, it cannot be argued that they intended to include them. There were no overseas military bases at the time the framers defined natural-born citizen.

In fact, the framers' original definition in the Naturalization Act of 1790 encompassed those born abroad; however, the framers deliberately repealed and replaced this definition in their Naturalization Act of 1795.

While a challenge to McCain's eligibility may be based on a technicality, it is a technicality inherently created within our Constitution. If we are the constitutionalists we say we are, then we will not reject the definition of "natural born citizen" as presently spelled out in the Constitution.

I'm not saying I agree that the definition should exclude persons born to military service members abroad, but after fairly extensive research on this, I personally interpret the definition as excluding them.. and..

If we object to the definition, then we should go about changing the definition itself in a constitutionally-prescribed manner (e.g. Nickles' Act in 2004).

But until such time as the definition is legally changed, I don't see what's wrong with taking action to ensure that McCain plays by the rules. (Which is why I posted this resolution in case anyone wants to use it in upcoming precinct conventions.)

Goodness knows, Dr. Paul has had to play by an ever-changing set of rules!

[Edited to include this quote from another thread... because I like it!]

I find this cause to further the ideals of Ron Paul. This is something we should band together on as this is yet another reason why our Military should not be spread all over the world. To what end do we allow the constitution to be bent and twisted when it suits our agenda?

John McCain is a naturalized citizen, he should not be eligible to be president without an amendment to the constitution. The founders would never approve of his presidency as they would have never approved of our military and their pregnant wives being in a foreign land.

We must stand together on this issue as it is not about John McCain, it is an aversion to the original intent of the constitution.

Notes: While the Fourteenth Amendment addresses citizenship (and naturalization), it does not define "natural born". Further, as I mentioned near the top of this post, a person defined by law as a citizen is naturalized by law -- which is not the same as natural born.

Additionally, the State Department has it's own clause which it claims overrides the 14th in some cases:

"7 FAM 1116.1-4 Not Included in the Meaning of "In the United
States"
(TL:CON-64; 11-30-95)

...c. Despite widespread popular belief, U.S. military installations abroad and U.S. diplomatic or consular facilities are not part of the United States within the meaning of the 14th Amendment. A child born on the premises of such a facility is not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States and does not acquire U.S. citizenship."

 

[robskicks]

It's funny how all the people with 100 posts are the ones saying how this should never be brought up again.

 

[acptulsa]

This is stupid and stop bringing it up. He's eligible. Do you honestly believe that nobody brought this to attention in 2000 when he ran? Do you really believe that McCain would put himself through a whole year of campaigning if he wasn't even eligible to be President? He was born in a U.S. Territory to U.S. citizens and is eligible to be President so stop it!

Didn't put much stock in it until the trolls started barking. Handy not to ban them so that we can tell when we've encountered a real vulnerability. Is it true that he was naturalized when he was 16? If he was naturalized, he's ineligible--period.

 

[mczerone]

It's funny how all the people with 100 posts are the ones saying how this should never be brought up again.

It's funny that you have 133 yourself, I have more, and I don't think this should be our fight.

McCain may be ineligible, but I don't think he should be (he was born on a US base into the family of an active service member), and there are bigger McCain fish to fry.