General Libertarians In Swing States: Can we risk 4 more Obama years by voting for Johnson?

[acptulsa]

No one wanted Obamacare. They wanted single payer and he beat Hillary BECAUSE he said there would be no insurance mandate. Big Pharma and insurance companies wanted Obamacare.

And it created the, to my mind, horrible situation where it actually costs you money just to live and breathe in this nation. Never mind it costs you money to work and be productive; soon it will cost you money just to live and breathe. Furthermore, there are religions which are anti-medical science, and not only are they having medical science shoved down their throats from time to time, they will be having to support it financially as well.

Romney flopped on this issue. He was not originally all states' rights about it. He flopped partly to throw us a bone, and partly because we were gaining traction on the issue. The 'level playing field for competition' part sounds real nice. But the 'craft legislation' part is vague enough to hide a lot of evil. The 55 mph speed limit was not a federal law, as a federal law like that would have been unconstitutional. But Washington withheld federal highway funds from states that didn't pass it. Highway funds that they shouldn't have been taxing us for in the first place; if it weren't for the federal fuel tax, states could charge enough tax on fuel to maintain their own roads themselves, without jumping through federal hoops in the process.

The devil is in details like that. And while Romney made it all sound good, he left himself a loophole I'd rather see closed. Remember, the mandate was part of his Massachusetts plan.

 

[LibertyPA]

This. But because Obama played for Team Blue, they sucked it up and came up with excuses, much like Republicans are doing for Romney as we speak. So to add to my previous point, did Democrats hold Obama's feet to the fire for crafting a program that benefited the same insurance corporations that they railed against in the first place?

Obama (and Dems) got their "Board" to make choices for everyone. That is a key point -- something all progressives want: Get Administrators in a position of power.

 

[LibertyPA]

And it created the, to my mind, horrible situation where it actually costs you money just to live and breathe in this nation. Never mind it costs you money to work and be productive; soon it will cost you money just to live and breathe. Furthermore, there are religions which are anti-medical science, and not only are they having medical science shoved down their throats from time to time, they will be having to support it financially as well.

If it wasnt clear -- I'm against this!!!!!

 

[LibertyPA]

Romney flopped on this issue. He was not originally all states' rights about it. He flopped partly to throw us a bone, and partly because we were gaining traction on the issue. The 'level playing field for competition' part sounds real nice. But the 'craft legislation' part is vague enough to hide a lot of evil. The 55 mph speed limit was not a federal law, as a federal law like that would have been unconstitutional. But Washington withheld federal highway funds from states that didn't pass it. Highway funds that they shouldn't have been taxing us for in the first place; if it weren't for the federal fuel tax, states could charge enough tax on fuel to maintain their own roads themselves, without jumping through federal hoops in the process.

Something similar to this happened with the States all changing drinking age to 21 -- if you could see me now, you'd see my head shaking back and forth. So upsetting!

 

[NIU Students for Liberty]

Obama (and Dems) got their "Board" to make choices for everyone. That is a key point -- something all progressives want: Get Administrators in a position of power.

True but the power was devised in a corporatist fashion, something liberals are stereotypically not to take hook, line, and sinker.

 

[LibertyPA]

True but the power was devised in a corporatist fashion, something liberals are stereotypically not to take hook, line, and sinker.

Okay, yes this it true. good point.

 

[sailingaway]

"Some" of them wanted this

Though your last point is very true -- these 2,000 pages were actually written by United Health Care. Those who work inside the company actually call this UnitedCare not ObamaCare.
And clearly you are right, this supports the insurance companies - no other reasons their stock would rise after it passed.

The POLICY types wanted the 'win' the power over us it brings. Look at Rasmussen's polls on the divide between 'Main Street' and 'the Political Class'. The political class is tiny. Unfortunately it it is all together in a bubble world with most of the power.

Note that the mandate was in the Heritage plan, a Republican plan, before Obama ever got it. The political class has their ideas which are 'bipartisan' because the political class, red or blue, largely agrees with itself.

 

[LibertyPA]

Note that the mandate was in the Heritage plan, a Republican plan, before Obama ever got it. The political class has their ideas which are 'bipartisan' because the political class, red or blue, largely agrees with itself.

Didn't know this but I will look into it, thanks for sharing!
Also, clearly they are in the bubble - they don't fall under ObamaCare laws.....they passed it before reading it and yet somehow knew they didn't want to be a part of it.

 

[devil21]

Something similar to this happened with the States all changing drinking age to 21 -- if you could see me now, you'd see my head shaking back and forth. So upsetting!

So who are you voting for on Tuesday (or already, if you're an early voter)? We've shared a lot with you so tell us if it's made any difference to you at all. You don't share anything with us about your views. What do you think the role of the US gov't should be in the middle east? Should troops stay in Afghanistan until all jihadists are dead? Let's do more than you ask empty questions and post empty compliments and understand your actual positions on issues.

So, LibertyPA, do you support taxpayer supported American weapons supplies to Syrian rebels fighting against Assad's forces?

 

[LibertyPA]

So who are you voting for on Tuesday (or already, if you're an early voter)? We've shared a lot with you so tell us if it's made any difference to you at all. You don't share anything with us about your views. What do you think the role of the US gov't should be in the middle east? Should troops stay in Afghanistan until all jihadists are dead? Let's do more than you ask empty questions and post empty compliments and understand your actual positions on issues.

So, LibertyPA, do you support taxpayer supported American weapons supplies to Syrian rebels fighting against Assad's forces?

As I said when I first posted my message, I was leaning to Romney though not fully decided. As I have had the chance to chat here with a group of great people, I am actually leaning to Gary Johnson. I have not 100% decided to make it official but I am close to doing so. And I do not early vote so I have 4 more days to make this decision.

As for issues that are important to me - I want those elected to follow the Constitution and I want the government to be small, including collecting less taxes and FAR less spending.

 

[supermario21]

I don't understand this point.
Obama has no risk if he gets elected in a second term. And the Senate will only elect about 1/3 in 2014. OR are you suggesting that somehow the Senate will change in 2012 because of the fear of Obama spinning this to a mandate?!

In 2014, the map for Republican pickups is very favorable. Remember many of these Dems were elected in 2008 when the deck was stacked against the Republicans.

Arkansas
North Carolina
West Virginia
Virginia-could get Cuccinelli in there
Colorado
Louisiana
Minnesota-Franken's seat
Montana-could try and take out Baucus
New Hampshire-try and prop up a Liberty candidate
South Dakota

Plus we could get Lindsey out of South Carolina. This will be a MONUMENTAL election for our movement. There are also virtually no seats a Republican could lose unless Collins in Maine retires.

 

[jacque]

Well, doesn't each state already have the power to craft their own health care reform plan, should they see fit? Is he thinking about forcing them to do something they would have already done if they felt it was necessary? As if that would be constitutional.

It's called NULLIFICATION. NC is working hard to bring the light to our legislature.

Ah yes. Sorry, it is now a tax and not a law....what was I thinking.

 

[WesSeid]

"

This is when it's time to all wish together for a giant bowling ball to come rolling down the street.

As I said when I first posted my message, I was leaning to Romney though not fully decided. As I have had the chance to chat here with a group of great people, I am actually leaning to Gary Johnson.

 

[LibertyPA]

Sorry, it is now a tax and not a law....what was I thinking.

dont make me gag

 

[TheOraclePaul]

Hey I'm not looking to take sides here or anything but I was in the middle of a private messaging convo with CaptLouAlbano and now that he's banned I'm not sure how to get in contact with him (it's about buying businesses). Can anyone direct me as to how I can find out his email or something?

 

[nasaal]

A vote for Romney or Obama is equally dangerous to one another. Johnson gives us at least many of the things we fight for in the liberty movement.

 

[devil21]

As I said when I first posted my message, I was leaning to Romney though not fully decided. As I have had the chance to chat here with a group of great people, I am actually leaning to Gary Johnson. I have not 100% decided to make it official but I am close to doing so. And I do not early vote so I have 4 more days to make this decision.

As for issues that are important to me - I want those elected to follow the Constitution and I want the government to be small, including collecting less taxes and FAR less spending.

So you're not going to answer my question then?

 

[parocks]

Both Romney and Obama are terrible. It is not clear at all that either of these candidates provides the better outcome.

It can be argued that Romney would get Republicans to vote for bad legislatation, and Obama couldn't get the votes he needs to pass a slightly worse version of the same legislation.

Was Bush's first term or Clinton's second term worse? Clinton didn't do much from 97-01 except get impeached. As long as Republicans continue to block Obama, everything would likely turn out ok.

It is true that Romney is 2-3% better than Obama is, but I think I'd rather spend the next 4 years successfully blocking Obama than failing to block Romney.

 

[parocks]

In 2014, the map for Republican pickups is very favorable. Remember many of these Dems were elected in 2008 when the deck was stacked against the Republicans.

Arkansas
North Carolina
West Virginia
Virginia-could get Cuccinelli in there
Colorado
Louisiana
Minnesota-Franken's seat
Montana-could try and take out Baucus
New Hampshire-try and prop up a Liberty candidate
South Dakota

Plus we could get Lindsey out of South Carolina. This will be a MONUMENTAL election for our movement. There are also virtually no seats a Republican could lose unless Collins in Maine retires.

Lindsey should get primaried out in 2014. Snowe is gone in Maine, Lindsey should be our top target.

 

[georgiaboy]

" there are also such things as big government Republicans" I must say this is a sad reality that i have learned over the past decade or so -- and something that upsets me -- I am against this!!!

and yet you struggle with whether to vote to perpetuate it, when it stares you right in the face.