General Libertarians In Swing States: Can we risk 4 more Obama years by voting for Johnson?

[LibertyPA]

But but but doesnt he have the power to repeal it? This is what I keep hearing!

You can't have it both ways.

He has the power to "Not" veto the repeal --- a repeal made by congress.

Even if the Dem's lose control in the Senate - they cant repeal ObamaCare because Obama will veto it.

 

[NIU Students for Liberty]

Yes, I've seen this - but when was this?
I haven't heard Romney say things like this in the past month or two. I think he has learned (maybe since that statement) that he needs to be the "Anti Obama Care" guy to get elected. And often time a guy who gets in the white house wants to be there for 8 years - so I can't imagine he would be dumb enough to upset "the people" who got him there by messing up the specific reason many of them sent him there.

Also, Romney may push for one thing or another so it is important to elect people in Congress who follow the Constitution and support Liberty. When they take apart every piece of Obama Care and pass it across Romney's desk, he cant veto it or it would be the end of his chances at a second term.

Um, it's called politics. Did Bush 2 keep his promise regarding "no nation-building" after taking office in 2001? And the fact that Romney would have had to have said he's in favor of repealing Obamacare only a short time before the election after already flip-flopping on the subject countless times in order to pander for your vote speaks volumes.

 

[Dr.3D]

did i miss something?

Yeah, the Cap'n got banned.

 

[LibertyPA]

Yeah, the Cap'n got banned.

LOL - good!
he was honestly being a problem here. I am trying to ask questions and am learning from a handful of the quality posters here .... he was messing that up!

 

[LibertyPA]

Um, it's called politics. Did Bush 2 keep his promise regarding "no nation-building" after taking office in 2001? And the fact that Romney would have had to have said he's in favor of repealing Obamacare only a short time before the election after already flip-flopping on the subject countless times in order to pander for your vote speaks volumes.

two points:
1) this is the job of Congress....Romney cannot repeal and replace
2) it will cost him a chance at re-election if he supports this and though he may not have known this months or years ago, people around him know that if he wins and the senate power shifts, it is clearly for the goal of removing ObamaCare ... its a job that he will have to handle early or there will be all sorts of problems for him -- I just dont think his ego of having his name on a health care bill will get in the way of his brain and ego of a desired second term. IMHO

 

[sailingaway]

two points:
1) this is the job of Congress....Romney cannot repeal and replace
2) it will cost him a chance at re-election if he supports this and though he may not have known this months or years ago, people around him know that if he wins and the senate power shifts, it is clearly for the goal of removing ObamaCare ... its a job that he will have to handle early or there will be all sorts of problems for him -- I just dont think his ego of having his name on a health care bill will get in the way of his brain and ego of a desired second term. IMHO

He can say he will only not veto if it contains xyz replacement. He can propose a bill, and likely will, or at least let it be known what he wants.

 

[Dr.3D]

two points:
1) this is the job of Congress....Romney cannot repeal and replace
2) it will cost him a chance at re-election if he supports this and though he may not have known this months or years ago, people around him know that if he wins and the senate power shifts, it is clearly for the goal of removing ObamaCare ... its a job that he will have to handle early or there will be all sorts of problems for him -- I just dont think his ego of having his name on a health care bill will get in the way of his brain and ego of a desired second term. IMHO

Now he has changed his tune again. He says.... he will "issue an executive order that paves the way for the federal government to issue Obamacare waivers to all fifty states."
http://www.mittromney.com/issues/health-care

 

[LibertyPA]

He can say he will only not veto if it contains xyz replacement. He can propose a bill, and likely will, or at least let it be known what he wants.

See Point #2 ... dealing with re-election

 

[NIU Students for Liberty]

two points:
1) this is the job of Congress....Romney cannot repeal and replace
2) it will cost him a chance at re-election if he supports this and though he may not have known this months or years ago, people around him know that if he wins and the senate power shifts, it is clearly for the goal of removing ObamaCare ... its a job that he will have to handle early or there will be all sorts of problems for him -- I just dont think his ego of having his name on a health care bill will get in the way of his brain and ego of a desired second term. IMHO

And if he doesn't repeal it, do you honestly think a majority of Republicans are going to balk? Did Democrats hold Obama's feet to the fire for not keeping his "promises" regarding foreign policy and civil liberties? Did Republicans lash out at Nixon for not carrying out his "secret" plan to end the Vietnam War (a increasingly unpopular war among voters by the time of the Tet Offensive)?

 

[acptulsa]

He has the power to "Not" veto the repeal --- a repeal made by congress.

Even if the Dem's lose control in the Senate - they cant repeal ObamaCare because Obama will veto it.

Very good! So nice to talk to someone who has read the Constitution! +rep.

Now, what happens if we get enough Republicans into Congress to override that veto? Unfortunately, there are also such things as big government Republicans. Romney is one, and this fact makes me very skeptical that he would pass an ObamaCare repeal himself. He did, after all, invent the stuff. But who knows? I think our best chance is to concentrate on getting as many disciples of libertarian thought as possible into Congress; then the puppet in the White House won't matter.

 

[LibertyPA]

Now he has changed his tune again. He says.... he will "issue an executive order that paves the way for the federal government to issue Obamacare waivers to all fifty states."
http://www.mittromney.com/issues/health-care

This was very upsetting to see, but then i clicked the link and all he is doing (though i dont like the use of his executive order that paves the way for a power the states already had!)....he is doing this to make sure from day 1 that Obama Care is gone. And this way he doesnt have to wait for the senate because he is putting this into the state's hands (as it should be).

"On his first day in office, Mitt Romney will issue an executive order that paves the way for the federal government to issue Obamacare waivers to all fifty states. He will then work with Congress to repeal the full legislation as quickly as possible.
In place of Obamacare, Mitt will pursue policies that give each state the power to craft a health care reform plan that is best for its own citizens. The federal government’s role will be to help markets work by creating a level playing field for competition."

Not a fan that he thinks each state NEEDS to give health care and goverment must be involved in one form or another in the decisions of how people care for their own body's....but at least he is correct in knowing this is a choice of the states!

 

[LibertyPA]

And if he doesn't repeal it, do you honestly think a majority of Republicans are going to balk? Did Democrats hold Obama's feet to the fire for not keeping his "promises" regarding foreign policy and civil liberties? Did Republicans lash out at Nixon for not carrying out his "secret" plan to end the Vietnam War (a increasingly unpopular war among voters by the time of the Tet Offensive)?

He gave them Obama Care --- they have been wanting that for such a long time, that was the biggest win they could have asked for -- that's all he needed to do and the rest wasn't as big of a deal to most Dems.

 

[sailingaway]

Now he has changed his tune again. He says.... he will "issue an executive order that paves the way for the federal government to issue Obamacare waivers to all fifty states."
http://www.mittromney.com/issues/health-care

more tyranny by dictatorial fiat.

 

[sailingaway]

He gave them Obama Care --- they have been wanting that for such a long time, that was the biggest win they could have asked for -- that's all he needed to do and the rest wasn't as big of a deal to most Dems.

No one wanted Obamacare. They wanted single payer and he beat Hillary BECAUSE he said there would be no insurance mandate. Big Pharma and insurance companies wanted Obamacare.

 

[LibertyPA]

Very good! So nice to talk to someone who has read the Constitution! +rep.

Now, what happens if we get enough Republicans into Congress to override that veto? Unfortunately, there are also such things as big government Republicans. Romney is one, and this fact makes me very skeptical that he would pass an ObamaCare repeal himself. He did, after all, invent the stuff. But who knows? I think our best chance is to concentrate on getting as many disciples of libertarian thought as possible into Congress; then the puppet in the White House won't matter.

Nice of you to offer the +rep
and as for the other part when you wrote: " there are also such things as big government Republicans" I must say this is a sad reality that i have learned over the past decade or so -- and something that upsets me -- I am against this!!!

 

[LibertyPA]

I think our best chance is to concentrate on getting as many disciples of libertarian thought as possible into Congress; then the puppet in the White House won't matter.

Is there a link somewhere on here with a group of these people? I would enjoy following along and cheering along for them on Tuesday

 

[Dr.3D]

This was very upsetting to see, but then i clicked the link and all he is doing (though i dont like the use of his executive order that paves the way for a power the states already had!)....he is doing this to make sure from day 1 that Obama Care is gone. And this way he doesnt have to wait for the senate because he is putting this into the state's hands (as it should be).

"On his first day in office, Mitt Romney will issue an executive order that paves the way for the federal government to issue Obamacare waivers to all fifty states. He will then work with Congress to repeal the full legislation as quickly as possible.
In place of Obamacare, Mitt will pursue policies that give each state the power to craft a health care reform plan that is best for its own citizens. The federal government’s role will be to help markets work by creating a level playing field for competition."

Not a fan that he thinks each state NEEDS to give health care and goverment must be involved in one form or another in the decisions of how people care for their own body's....but at least he is correct in knowing this is a choice of the states!

Well, doesn't each state already have the power to craft their own health care reform plan, should they see fit? Is he thinking about forcing them to do something they would have already done if they felt it was necessary? As if that would be constitutional.

 

[NIU Students for Liberty]

No one wanted Obamacare. They wanted single payer and he beat Hillary BECAUSE he said there would be no insurance mandate. Big Pharma and insurance companies wanted Obamacare.

This. But because Obama played for Team Blue, they sucked it up and came up with excuses, much like Republicans are doing for Romney as we speak. So to add to my previous point, did Democrats hold Obama's feet to the fire for crafting a program that benefited the same insurance corporations that they railed against in the first place?

 

[LibertyPA]

No one wanted Obamacare. They wanted single payer and he beat Hillary BECAUSE he said there would be no insurance mandate. Big Pharma and insurance companies wanted Obamacare.

"Some" of them wanted this

Though your last point is very true -- these 2,000 pages were actually written by United Health Care. Those who work inside the company actually call this UnitedCare not ObamaCare.
And clearly you are right, this supports the insurance companies - no other reasons their stock would rise after it passed.

 

[LibertyPA]

Well, doesn't each state already have the power to craft their own health care reform plan, should they see fit? Is he thinking about forcing them to do something they would have already done if they felt it was necessary? As if that would be constitutional.

Yes, i did say its a power the states already had....maybe someone should tell Romney about this (oh and The Sup. Ct.)
as to your other point....an interesting take - forcing them to do something in their states...such as saying, you dont need Obama Care and you dont need what I tell you, but you need SOMETHING, and then make them decide on what "something" is....but not giving the option for nothing. that would piss me off, so I hope you arent correct if that's what you meant.