General Libertarians In Swing States: Can we risk 4 more Obama years by voting for Johnson?

angelatc said:
They're already talking about keeping parts of it, and/or replacing it.
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Oh I know. The progressives have been pushing for this for 100+ years. This is a huge victory for them, and we are one step away now from a single payer system, which has always been their goal.

This is why it is important as we move forward that we have libertarians and conservatives that have the ability to articulate the message in a way that doesn't scare the shit out of the average person. One of the problems we have is that we present this libertarian ideal which is incomprehensible to the average voter. Eliminate the IRS, shut down half the federal govt, close all bases around the world, etc. We understand that stuff, but it is a quantum leap from where we are now in the mind of the average voter, and that is why we can't win with candidates like that.

That is where the left kicks our asses all the time. If 50 years ago if they called for a government take over of the health care industry people would have freaked out, but they didn't they bode their time, slowly chipping away and taking a piece here and there where they could. And now, look what we are on the verge of having in this country - government run health care.

Personally, I think if Obama wins and the Dems hold the Senate that he is going to spin that as a mandate. I think we are going to take that next step forward towards European socialism and I don't think we are going to ever be able to turn it back. I know alot here think that the imminent crash is going to set up libertarians as the saviors of the country - I don't think that will occur. I think the left knows just as well as we do we are coming to a crash, and they are doing everything they can to push us there, because if and when we crash the people of this country will not be looking for less government they will be looking for government to be the savior. Just look who gained power in Greece after their crash - was it small government/free market people? No, it was the Nazis and the Commies. Expect the same here - if and when we crash the people offering to take care of things, to provide food, shelter and clothing will be the ones that Americans hoist onto their shoulders. They will say that capitalism has failed - and then we are completely screwed.

And to be perfectly frank, what troubles me is that we have a whole slew of well-intentioned, informed people sitting around with their heads up their asses because they are still pissed off because their guy couldn't win a primary election. From what I have observed here, people have spent more time and energy trying to get a candidate write in status then they have working on helping to elect people that actually have a chance of winning local, state and federal offices. It is very disappointing to see this. You folks have the drive and the ability to actually do something positive, but you are stuck in neutral.
 
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Christ! Romney is not going to get rid of Obamacare. He is gonna replace it. It's true. I heard him say it from his own lips.
 
CaptLouAlbano said:
Oh I know. The progressives have been pushing for this for 100+ years. This is a huge victory for them, and we are one step away now from a single payer system, which has always been their goal.

This is why it is important as we move forward that we have libertarians and conservatives that have the ability to articulate the message in a way that doesn't scare the shit out of the average person. One of the problems we have is that we present this libertarian ideal which is incomprehensible to the average voter. Eliminate the IRS, shut down half the federal govt, close all bases around the world, etc. We understand that stuff, but it is a quantum leap from where we are now in the mind of the average voter, and that is why we can't win with candidates like that.

That is where the left kicks our asses all the time. If 50 years ago if they called for a government take over of the health care industry people would have freaked out, but they didn't they bode their time, slowly chipping away and taking a piece here and there where they could. And now, look what we are on the verge of having in this country - government run health care.

Personally, I think if Obama wins and the Dems hold the Senate that he is going to spin that as a mandate. I think we are going to take that next step forward towards European socialism and I don't think we are going to ever be able to turn it back. I know alot here think that the imminent crash is going to set up libertarians as the saviors of the country - I don't think that will occur. I think the left knows just as well as we do we are coming to a crash, and they are doing everything they can to push us there, because if and when we crash the people of this country will not be looking for less government they will be looking for government to be the savior. Just look who gained power in Greece after their crash - was it small government/free market people? No, it was the Nazis and the Commies. Expect the same here - if and when we crash the people offering to take care of things, to provide food, shelter and clothing will be the ones that Americans hoist onto their shoulders. They will say that capitalism has failed - and then we are completely screwed.

And to be perfectly frank, what troubles me is that we have a whole slew of well-intentioned, informed people sitting around with their heads up their asses because they are still pissed off because their guy couldn't win a primary election. From what I have observed here, people have spent more time and energy trying to get a candidate write in status then they have working on helping to elect people that actually have a chance of winning local, state and federal offices. It is very disappointing to see this. You folks have the drive and the ability to actually do something positive, but you are stuck in neutral.
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I'm voting for the guy on my ballot that best represents what I want in government.
don't like that- fuck off.
 
CaptLouAlbano said:
And to be perfectly frank, what troubles me is that we have a whole slew of well-intentioned, informed people sitting around with their heads up their asses because they are still pissed off because their guy couldn't win a primary election. From what I have observed here, people have spent more time and energy trying to get a candidate write in status then they have working on helping to elect people that actually have a chance of winning local, state and federal offices. It is very disappointing to see this. You folks have the drive and the ability to actually do something positive, but you are stuck in neutral.
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You've already shown numerous times that you have no clue what Paul supporters are doing or not doing so your opinion means zilch.

First, insults won't help your cause around here and if you'd been around longer than the last few months you would know this. Second, I can't speak for others but I can tell you that I AM working to elect LIBERTY minded individuals to office. I notice you didn't make that distinction. I will not work to elect more-of-the-same to office, however. I would argue that if you think swapping out one statist politician with another statist politician is any form of progress then it is YOU that has his head up his ass. What exactly are you doing to improve the constant downward spiral of this country? And if you say "trying to elect Mandate Mitt" then you're only proving it. When was the last time you stood outside a polling place for 12 hours passing out literature? How many instructional manuals on winning votes have you written? How many houses have you canvassed? Phone calls? How much money have you donated? How many rallies have you taken off work to attend? Fundraisers? Dinners? Conventions? Victory parties? Im betting little to NONE. I have done all of those and will continue doing them for candidates that seek to restore LIBERTY so you can fuck off with your "sitting around with your head up your asses" comment.

Can we ban this shill now please? The insults are starting to come out as a last resort and that's against the TOS and not how RPF operates.
 
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torchbearer said:
I'm voting for the guy on my ballot that best represents what I want in government.
don't like that- fuck off.
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Well, ya know that is pretty much how Ron Paul sees it....

Paul, who held a rally over the weekend for his supporters, told Cavuto he thinks the Republican ticket is “anxious; I think they’re really anxious to have our votes.”
And although both Ryan and Romney have said recently they expect Paul supporters to come around to the Republican ticket, the Texas congressman said “they might be jumping the gun a bit.”
“I don’t own my delegates,” he said.
His supporters “are going to do what they want to do” and “when they ask me what to do, I say, ‘Do what you want to do.’”
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http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0812/80301.html#ixzz2AyzznOBd
 
Obama won't be able to spin it as a mandate. If he does, the Senate could get close to being Filibuster proof...for the Republicans. The House is safe for a decade now because of redistricting IMO.
 
I think one of the most underrated messages of the national climate is how well Republicans have been doing at the state level and below. And much of that is going to be due to our efforts. Keep working.
 
devil21 said:
What exactly are you doing to improve the constant downward spiral of this country? And if you say "trying to elect Mandate Mitt" then you're only proving it. When was the last time you stood outside a polling place for 12 hours passing out literature? How many instructional manuals on winning votes have you written? How many houses have you canvassed? Phone calls? How much money have you donated? How many rallies have you taken off work to attend? Fundraisers? Dinners? Conventions? Victory parties? Im betting little to NONE.
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Since you have asked I'll answer you.

I have been politically active since 1960. I consider myself part of the "Old Right" or a paleo-conservative. It all depends on the way you label.

In 1964 I was a volunteer and precinct coordinator for Goldwater, volunteer at the RNC. In 66 I was elected to county committee and served on the committee for 12 years. During that time I acted as a county lead for several congressional, and state campaigns. I was a delegate to the RNC in 76 and 80 both times in support of Reagan. In the 80's I was elected to township government and then later to school board. Served again on county committee in the 90's during the Buchanan era and a little afterward. I have worked the polls, canvassed, phone banked, etc nearly every year since 1960 for conservative and libertarian candidates in the GOP. Presently I serve on my community's HOA (I live in a very large 55+ community with close to 12,000 residents)

This year I walked my neighborhood for Paul passing out literature I purchased from the campaign store. About 400 homes total. I also donated a healthy sum to his campaign as well as about a dozen others. If you go back in the archives here, I have a method of budgeting for my annual donations. All totaled I gave right around 25K this year to candidates and PACS. I have also canvassed my neighborhood here again for the general election for some state candidates. On election day, my plan is to be at the polls for about 8 hours (which is our peak time)

Next year, my term on the HOA will end and I am seeking to run for county committee here in my new home state. I expect to win.
 
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supermario21 said:
Pat Buchanan is the standard bearer for paleoconservatism and I'm pretty sure he's backing Romney.
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Ron Paul is the standard bearer for paleoconservatism imho, and he isn't backing Romney. Nor are the paleoconservatives I've seen in blogs. The closest I've seen is Antle who may end up there, because he doesn't like Johnson. I suggested in his blog that he vote for Ron Paul.
 
Dr.3D said:


Edit:
Second video didn't have what I thought it had in it.
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Yes, I've seen this - but when was this?
I haven't heard Romney say things like this in the past month or two. I think he has learned (maybe since that statement) that he needs to be the "Anti Obama Care" guy to get elected. And often time a guy who gets in the white house wants to be there for 8 years - so I can't imagine he would be dumb enough to upset "the people" who got him there by messing up the specific reason many of them sent him there.

Also, Romney may push for one thing or another so it is important to elect people in Congress who follow the Constitution and support Liberty. When they take apart every piece of Obama Care and pass it across Romney's desk, he cant veto it or it would be the end of his chances at a second term.
 
supermario21 said:
Obama won't be able to spin it as a mandate. If he does, the Senate could get close to being Filibuster proof...for the Republicans. The House is safe for a decade now because of redistricting IMO.
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I don't understand this point.
Obama has no risk if he gets elected in a second term. And the Senate will only elect about 1/3 in 2014. OR are you suggesting that somehow the Senate will change in 2012 because of the fear of Obama spinning this to a mandate?!
 
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