General Libertarians In Swing States: Can we risk 4 more Obama years by voting for Johnson?

[WesSeid]

Was Bush's first term or Clinton's second term worse? Clinton didn't do much from 97-01 except get impeached. As long as Republicans continue to block Obama, everything would likely turn out ok.

Clinton signed the repeal of Glass-Steagall and cut capital gains taxes by about a third. I enjoy reminding Democrats about both of those things. Most of them probably don't even know what Glass-Steagall is, but they all know what capital gains tax cuts are... and usually they are against them. Except apparently when Clinton did it....

Clinton cut capital gains a higher percentage than Bush did.

 

[Ronulus]

Remember the way Romney treated us and the things he had put in place to stop us in the future. I hope he gets crushed.

 

[parocks]

Clinton signed the repeal of Glass-Steagall and cut capital gains taxes by about a third. I enjoy reminding Democrats about both of those things. Most of them probably don't even know what Glass-Steagall is, but they all know what capital gains tax cuts are... and usually they are against them. Except apparently when Clinton did it....

Clinton cut capital gains a higher percentage than Bush did.

Those things you mentioned aren't the kind of things that Republicans get mad about. Those are things that Republicans generally like.

 

[WesSeid]

Those things you mentioned aren't the kind of things that Republicans get mad about. Those are things that Republicans generally like.

You said Clinton didn't do much those years besides get impeached. I think the two things I mentioned he did are kind of a big deal.

If nothing else, just goes to show maybe Republicans should like Clinton more, and Democrats should hate Clinton more.

crazy liberal: "Oh no, Bush cut capital gains tax and so will Romney! Bring back the Clinton tax rates!"
sane person: "Clinton cut capital gains more than Bush did."
crazy liberal: "You're a racist!"

 

[tod evans]

524 posts discussing whether mustard or mayo makes the shit sandwich taste better.

 

[parocks]

You said Clinton didn't do much those years besides get impeached. I think the two things I mentioned he did are kind of a big deal.

If nothing else, just goes to show maybe Republicans should like Clinton more, and Democrats should hate Clinton more.

crazy liberal: "Oh no, Bush cut capital gains tax and so will Romney! Bring back the Clinton tax rates!"
sane person: "Clinton cut capital gains more than Bush did."
crazy liberal: "You're a racist!"

Alright. My point is that using Clinton as an example, Democrats tend to run out of crazy liberal ideas that they can implement in the 2nd term.

People are pushing the idea that a 2nd term of Obama is likely to be terrible. The first 2 years of the Obama term were bad. But we can hold him in check now.

I think we're mostly in agreement here.

 

[pahs1994]

LibertyPA, I am in PA too. I voted for Barr/Root in 2008 and after Ron lost the GOP primary this year, i was considering holding my nose and voting for Romney just to get Obama out this time around. I have not read through this whole thread so i am not sure how familiar you are with what Romney and the GOP did to Ron Paul delegates during the primary, so i will just give my entire backstory for how i feel about this issue as the last GOP Primary has awakened me to how corrupt the so called "two party" system is.

Now, despite these dirty tricks that were well documented throughout the Primary, I tuned into the Republican National Convention to see our 300+ (maybe more?) delegates make a real difference by voting on party issues that will help for grassroots candidates in 2016. What we got instead was this:


The part around 3:35 is what sent me over the edge.

That is how i feel. Sad to say it, but even with all that happened at state level, I actually saw myself just voting for Romney in November because Obama is so bad for this country, but then the RNC happened.... It looked like a nazi take over. They simply just ignore dissenting voices while they vote? the teleprompter has the "yea's have it" already set in stone? can't even say Rons name when tallying the votes (that were rigged by throwing out Maine)? I can't do it anymore. All Romney had to do was let us lose fairly and let Ron get his 15 minutes. Now my state GOP has taken the LP and CP off of the ballot. this is just so disgusting. So what is there left to do? I AM VOTING IN NOVEMBER. But i cannot vote CP or LP and i REFUSE to vote for ROMNEY and the filthy establishment that put him there after what happened at the convention. Write ins are not counted in PA. I guess that just leaves… OBAMA
Fuck you GOP. you had my vote (even when you didn’t really deserve it) and lost it.

If they understood blowback, they would have seen this coming

/rant

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?388684-Attention-GOP&p=4626915&viewfull=1#post4626915

Above was my initial reaction to the whole thing in September, as the GOP in Pennsylvania set out to take the CP and LP off the ballot, in what i perceive to be even more voter suppression coming from the party that i have been registered to since 2007. Since then GJ has been put back on the ballot... But since many people spent time and their own money to elect these delegates in a fair election, I will never forget what they have done to us, and Refuse to vote for an "Establishment picked" GOP candidate ever in my life. I have been successful in getting would be Romney votes from Lifelong Democrats in PA to switch to Gary Johnson to aid me in my quest to make the GOP feel some repercussion for what they have done. And as much as i hate Obama, I pray that our Gary Johnson votes are the difference in this election, because i know these stuck up Establishment GOP types feel that they are entitled to the libertarian vote.
But one must understand, that all GJ votes are not stealing votes from Romney and giving them to Obama, these votes do not belong to either major party. Because If i only had two choices in this election, I would ether stay home or cast an anti-Romney vote.

 

[parocks]

524 posts discussing whether mustard or mayo makes the shit sandwich taste better.

Right. They both suck, and there's no way to determine which shitty choice will give the best outcome.

 

[devil21]

Hmm I missed this originally. What are the odds?

First, please let me introduce myself, I am Lou from PA and I own a small business. Married with a wife and young child.

Who was recently banned in this thread? hmm

 

[LibertyPA]

Hmm I missed this originally. What are the odds?



Who was recently banned in this thread? hmm

I don't understand....do you have a problem with the name Lou? maybe you need to have a debate with my parents about it.

 

[devil21]

I don't understand....do you have a problem with the name Lou? maybe you need to have a debate with my parents about it.

Obviously you do understand.

I don't believe in coincidence theories. Did anyone happen to catch where CaptLou is from?

 

[acptulsa]

http://i.imgur.com/rD1N3.png?1

..

 

[George Dance]

I'm not in a swing state, but ...

First, please let me introduce myself, I am Lou from PA and I own a small business. Married with a wife and young child.

I live in Pennsylvania and while I am not officially part of the Libertarian Party, I do agree with Libertarians on more issues than any other party. PA isn't quite a swing state, but some reports say it may be closer than Obama may like to see. While being on this forum I have read posts from people in non-swing states (such as New York or Texas) talk about voting for Gary Johnson. And some some people listed reasons such as, increasing the popular vote for G.J. and yet not swinging any Elect. College votes for the D or R.

My question is specific to people in states that are swing states. This is partly because I am not fully decided, though in the past couple weeks I am leaning for Romney. The reason for my vote is because I think Obama is as far from a Libertarian as one could possibly elect. Romney is a bad choice, a very bad choice, and yet he still wants to offer some freedoms, he does believe in a free market for our economey, or at least more of a free market than Obama. I have my doubts about Romney overturning Obama care, but there is at least a chance that Romney would do such things - and there is Zero chance Obama would change his own goverment mandate on health care. When I view Obama, I see a person who doesn't know or doesn't care about the words in the Constitution. I see Romney as a person similar in many ways, but I see a difference and would fear 4 more years of Obama. I also think about Romney needing to be careful on what he does or doesn't do because he hopes to get reelected in 2016. Obama, will have 4 more years without worry of reelection and if he was this reckless in 4 "checked" years, I don't want to be a part of 4 more "unchecked" years.

I hope to hear from the Libertarians on this forum who live in those handful of Swing States. Have you made up your choice or are you on the fence - and if so which way are you leaning? I hope in this next week, we can all chat more under this new thread and talk about what is happening in our states and why we are going one way or the other. So I ask: Why vote for Johnson in a swing state when you know that makes it almost a "lock" for Obama to get 4 more years? or I will ask: Why vote for Romney when he may not be for as big of government as Obama but still supports many big government ideas?

I'd like to pass on an idea called 'vote swapping' that I got from Chuck Muth, a conservative activist who calls himself a "Gary Johnson kinda guy" but who lives in the swing state of Nevada:

"Find a Romney supporter in another state, like California, that Obama has sown up [or, I'd add, a state like Georgia that Romney has sewn up].. And informally “swap” votes. Ask them to vote for Johnson in their home state while you vote for Romney here in our swing state. That’s the only way to have your cake and eat it, too."

The downside is that it's not enforceable; there's no way to know if the Romney supporter kept his end of the bargain or not.

The upside is that you can make this deal with 10 or 20 Romney supporters, if you wanted. <jk>

 

[LibertyPA]

Obviously you do understand.

I don't believe in coincidence theories. Did anyone happen to catch where CaptLou is from?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!
oh please tell me you are only joking, because if so this is funny, if not its just sad!!!

If you are serious about this, I would enjoy hearing your top 5 list of other Conspiracy Theories that you subscribe to. It would give me something else to laugh about on this cloudy Monday.

 

[LibertyPA]

I'd like to pass on an idea called 'vote swapping' that I got from Chuck Muth, a conservative activist who calls himself a "Gary Johnson kinda guy" but who lives in the swing state of Nevada:

"Find a Romney supporter in another state, like California, that Obama has sown up [or, I'd add, a state like Georgia that Romney has sewn up].. And informally “swap” votes. Ask them to vote for Johnson in their home state while you vote for Romney here in our swing state. That’s the only way to have your cake and eat it, too."

The downside is that it's not enforceable; there's no way to know if the Romney supporter kept his end of the bargain or not.

The upside is that you can make this deal with 10 or 20 Romney supporters, if you wanted. <jk>

No need to swap, I was just asking what people were going to do in swing states, because in a non swing state i would have voted Gary Johnson. And actually, even in PA, after talking with a few great people on here (and putting up with a handful of rude people), I am moving my vote to Gary Johnson....yes that is what i said, I am voting for Gary Johnson in PA! I likely would have made this choice earlier if it wasn't for all the people on here trying to force me out of here. I do hope this movement is more accepting of outside people on the fence than the small sample size i met here. I will be working hard over the next 36 hours to get more votes for Gary Johnson in my state, wish me luck! And again, thank you those select few (I hope you know who you are), who have been so helpful over this past week by talking with me and sharing opinions and facts!

 

[LibertyPA]

..

Lets hope Gary Johsnon gets his 5% .... that would be a win!!

 

[CaptUSA]

No need to swap, I was just asking what people were going to do in swing states, because in a non swing state i would have voted Gary Johnson. And actually, even in PA, after talking with a few great people on here (and putting up with a handful of rude people), I am moving my vote to Gary Johnson....yes that is what i said, I am voting for Gary Johnson in PA! I likely would have made this choice earlier if it wasn't for all the people on here trying to force me out of here. I do hope this movement is more accepting of outside people on the fence than the small sample size i met here. I will be working hard over the next 36 hours to get more votes for Gary Johnson in my state, wish me luck! And again, thank you those select few (I hope you know who you are), who have been so helpful over this past week by talking with me and sharing opinions and facts!

Nice. I haven't looked at this thread in a couple of days, but I'm glad to see you stuck around with an open mind. It's hard to see the error of one's ways, but you did it my friend! Kudos and + rep.

I'm still writing in Ron Paul, but I'd like to welcome you to the movement! It's all about educating people about what liberty means. You have made leaps in that direction in the past few days.

 

[LibertyPA]

Nice. I haven't looked at this thread in a couple of days, but I'm glad to see you stuck around with an open mind. It's hard to see the error of one's ways, but you did it my friend! Kudos and + rep.

I'm still writing in Ron Paul, but I'd like to welcome you to the movement! It's all about educating people about what liberty means. You have made leaps in that direction in the past few days.

You were surely one of those people i was talking about -- so i want to specifically thank YOU! for all your help and education!!!

Now, we have a new topic though my friend, haha. Why not vote Gary Johnson to get that 5%? if he reaches that 5% mark and then in 2016 R.Paul runs as the Libertarian, it would give him a great chance to get his message out to everyone in the country with the added money for one and also the pressure to get him onto the national debates.
Of course I do agree with Paul more than Johnson on a number of issues, the 5% has become a personal goal and in fact since my last message, I have already set up a lunch with two close friends to talk with them about the election - so i will do my best to get people to those polls!

 

[LibertyPA]

+ rep.

I'm very thankful for this as well, thanks!!

 

[Original_Intent]

I love how folks are joining the forum a week before the election to shill/beg for the Ron Paul supporters votes.