Lew Rockwell calls for repudiation of student loans

[goldencane]

Those who understand the situation are calling for bankruptcy protection not a bailout. Should all others debts incurred by the population stick around with them their entire lives? Why should only student loans, loans taken out by high school students, brainwashed by public schooling (the government) and their well-meaning parents, be the only ones unable to repudiate debts that the cannot pay? These poor souls have no hope for work and once they find work the bankers will garnish their wages, tax returns, and eventually social security checks. They are an over educated (while sometimes badly educated) group looking forward to a future of permanent poverty. They are an official underclass of society that will either perish under their burden or rise up with calls for Revolution (OWS).

While bankruptcy protection might not get rid of ALL debt, as far as I understand it, it is the government stepping in and discharging a large chunk of debt. Thus I do not support bankruptcy for any debt. I do not think the government should be allowed to step in and break voluntary contracts. That being said, I think the loaners would be better off if they did not chase those in debt their whole lives. It would be a waste of time and money pursuing people who will never be able to pay it off. Education for those about to enter into these contracts is a better option than breaking their contracts if they can't follow through with them.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

Wow a lot of people here seem to be libertarians except for when it does not personally benefit them. No one is forced into student loans, they are all voluntary contracts. As bad as the banks are, that does not mean it is ok for the government to force them to get rid of all those voluntary contracts. Anyone calling for the government to get rid of all student debt needs to join Obama or Romney or the like, you guys are a disgrace to all libertarians, ancaps, constitutionalist, etc.

You missed the point entirely. The argument is that student loan debt should be treated like other debt and that lenders of student loans should be as responsible as other lenders. No one is forced to get a car or house either, but that debt goes away in bankruptcy. You're making it seem like a person who discharges their student debt gets a "free ride". Not the case. Bankruptcy fucks up your life for a pretty good while. It's something you definitely want to avoid if possible.
You think it's "libertarian" to deny bankruptcy to one group (because the loan agencies lobbied congress to get the law in their favor passed) but allow it for other groups? Yeah, that's so libertarian of you. Oh, and condoning the moral hazard created by the higher ed/student loan industry/government complex isn't exactly "libertarian" in my book. (btw, did you know that when you pay your loan bill to a place like Direct Loans, you write a check directly to the Department Of Education? Not exactly a department a libertarian would favor)

 

[heavenlyboy34]

While bankruptcy protection might not get rid of ALL debt, as far as I understand it, it is the government stepping in and discharging a large chunk of debt. Thus I do not support bankruptcy for any debt. I do not think the government should be allowed to step in and break voluntary contracts. That being said, I think the loaners would be better off if they did not chase those in debt their whole lives. It would be a waste of time and money pursuing people who will never be able to pay it off. Education for those about to enter into these contracts is a better option than breaking their contracts if they can't follow through with them.

That's reasonable too. Either everyone gets bankruptcy protection or no one does.

 

[LibertyEagle]

Is it responsible for lenders to give out bad (uncollateralized) loans to people they don't know will be able to pay back? In any other industry, this is called predatory lending. (don't forget, the loan industry lobbied for the clause in bankruptcy law that makes it impossible to discharge student debt in bankruptcy) Is it responsible for universities to accept students who clearly aren't college material just because they can get government-backed loans? I think not. Also, don't forget that government dictates on employers "discrimination" forces employers to require degrees when in a rational, unmanipulated market employers could simply administer some sort of intelligence/aptitude test.

Are you saying that college students are not responsible for their actions?

 

[LibertyEagle]

So you are against all bankruptcy laws? No debt should be able to be discharged?

I'm not real fond of them, no, but I am not against them existing. BUT, I do think there should be a major societal black mark associated with the person who does file for bankruptcy. It is not something to be proud of. That person entered into a contract of their own free will and proceeded to break the contract.

It used to be said that a man was only as good as his word. Bankruptcy is used to legally break one's word.

 

[Seraphim]

No. His argument is that it is absolutely, positively unreasonable to NOT allow student loans to be discharged through bankruptcy. That's fucking absurd.

Bankruptcy screws your life for a little while, but at least you get a chance to redeem yourself if you work hard. The current Federal Law structure says HAH GOTCHA, YOU'RE FUCKED FOR LIFE EVEN IF YOU CAN'T PAY. TO THE RAPE CAGES YOU GO IF YOU DISAGREE!!

Sorry, but to make it law that student debt can't be discharged/written down like any other debt through Chapter 7, is an abomonation within a so called free society.

Are you saying that college students are not responsible for their actions?

 

[Seraphim]

I'm not real fond of them, no, but I am not against them existing. BUT, I do think there should be a major societal black mark associated with the person who does file for bankruptcy. It is not something to be proud of. That person entered into a contract of their own free will and proceeded to break the contract.

It used to be said that a man was only as good as his word. Bankruptcy is used to legally break one's word.

No, bankruptcy is a legal means by which someone unable to pay can escape a debtors prison.

Just because you claim bankruptcy, it does not mean that all your debts all of a sudden magically go away. There is DUE PROCESS. One must forfeit unprotectable assets as immediate debt repudiation and show there are legitimate reasons as to why the rest cannot or will not be payed off.

 

[LibertyEagle]

No. His argument is that it is absolutely, positively unreasonable to NOT allow student loans to be discharged through bankruptcy. That's fucking absurd.

Bankruptcy screws your life for a little while, but at least you get a chance to redeem yourself if you work hard. The current Federal Law structure says HAH GOTCHA, YOU'RE FUCKED FOR LIFE EVEN IF YOU CAN'T PAY. TO THE RAPE CAGES YOU GO IF YOU DISAGREE!!

Sorry, but to make it law that student debt can't be discharged/written down like any other debt through Chapter 7, is an abomonation within a so called free society.

That almost sounds like you are saying that in a "free society" it is okay to break a contract that you willingly chose to enter into.

Look, I'm not against allowing people to file bankruptcy for student debt. But, it certainly should not be WAIVED and it most certainly shouldn't be considered honorable to do it.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

Are you saying that college students are not responsible for their actions?

No, I'm saying that predatory lenders are responsible for their actions. In any other industry, the way student borrowers are treated would be illegal. More than half the states have laws against the type of lending that the student loan industry engages in. If it weren't for their various government protections, the student loan racket would have collapsed long ago.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

That almost sounds like you are saying that in a "free society" it is okay to break a contract that you willingly chose to enter into.

Look, I'm not against allowing people to file bankruptcy for student debt. But, it certainly should not be WAIVED and it most certainly shouldn't be considered honorable to do it.

Why do you treat student loan debt differently than other debt? Discharging debt in bankruptcy is not the same as a waiver. I totally agree that a waiver should not be given. The whole model of student lending (and "higher education") needs to be redone so as to be fair and reasonable to all parties involved. The government should definitely be removed from the industry-I think you'd agree with that. Even worse than the predatory nature of these loans is that when you pay back a government loan, the check goes directly to the Department of Education-one of numerous agencies that needs to be scrapped.

 

[Feeding the Abscess]

1. They aren't getting repaid; if that were otherwise, there wouldn't be a trillion in unpaid loans floating around.

2. Why punish taxpayers for the misgivings of a distorted market, accelerated by an immoral government? What did the person who paid off their debts or those who didn't get any loans for school do to deserve such a burden?

3. Have we forgotten that ALL student aid is now explicitly handled by the federal government? And that it was implicitly assumed that the federal government would back it in full prior to Obamacare? I will say it again: all taxpayers are on the hook for these loans now.

4. Understanding my first three points, what other solution is there other than to shut it down, erase immorally conceived debts, and eliminate the federal government's involvement in this realm?

 

[angelatc]

They should give up their right to call themselves college graduates if they manage to lobby for their loan forgiveness.

They bitched and bitched until they managed to get politicians to federally guarantee the student loans, with the caveat that they wouldn't be able to stick it to the taxpayer after they graduated. Now the markets doing exactly what the economics majors predicted it would do, and we're supposed to feel sorry for them?

Ask the same liberal whiners if tax debt should be forgiven too, and watch them spit nails at the mere thought of letting those evil tax avoiders gets away with ripping off the taxpayer.

The older I get, the more I understand my grandfather's decision to not have the surgery he needed. The future is a fail.

 

[Seraphim]

See my post directly below the one you quoted.

That almost sounds like you are saying that in a "free society" it is okay to break a contract that you willingly chose to enter into.

Look, I'm not against allowing people to file bankruptcy for student debt. But, it certainly should not be WAIVED and it most certainly shouldn't be considered honorable to do it.

 

[Danke]

I'm not real fond of them, no, but I am not against them existing. BUT, I do think there should be a major societal black mark associated with the person who does file for bankruptcy. It is not something to be proud of. That person entered into a contract of their own free will and proceeded to break the contract.

It used to be said that a man was only as good as his word. Bankruptcy is used to legally break one's word.

And you know there is no contract to receive Social Security nor Medicare, right? The Supreme Court has said this a long time ago.

Blaming students for their ignorance?

Well, there are no laws requiring any one in the private sector to have and use a SSN.

So all money paid into such scheme is in fact voluntary. Don't bitch if it is taken away.

 

[LayZayFaire]

LOL at kids that went to college and pursued worthless degrees like political science, communications, management (You think I want some fresh out of college punk managing me? Fuck you.), public administration, philosophy, etc. and now can't find jobs. Who studies this shit?

All of you complaining didn't get conned. The trap was right in front of you and you walked right into it. I ain't paying for yall.

 

[LibertyEagle]

And you know there is no contract to receive Social Security nor Medicare, right? The Supreme Court has said this a long time ago.

Blaming students for their ignorance?

Who is blaming them? I think they, as all adults, should be held accountable for their actions.

Well, there are no laws requiring any one in the private sector to have and use a SSN.

So all money paid into such scheme is in fact voluntary. Don't bitch if it is taken away.

Straw man.

 

[LibertyEagle]

Why do you treat student loan debt differently than other debt? Discharging debt in bankruptcy is not the same as a waiver. I totally agree that a waiver should not be given. The whole model of student lending (and "higher education") needs to be redone so as to be fair and reasonable to all parties involved.

Such as? I thought we were for letting the market decide.

The government should definitely be removed from the industry-I think you'd agree with that.

Absolutely. But, that means some students will likely not be able to get student loans, you realize.

Even worse than the predatory nature of these loans is that when you pay back a government loan, the check goes directly to the Department of Education-one of numerous agencies that needs to be scrapped.

That's not an excuse, hb. If they don't pay, it is the American people who are stuck with the bill. Be honest. You know that.

 

[Danke]

Who is blaming them? I think they, as all adults, should be held accountable for their actions.


Straw man.

No, just showing your hypocrisy.

 

[MRoCkEd]

LOL at kids that went to college and pursued worthless degrees like political science, communications, management (You think I want some fresh out of college punk managing me? Fuck you.), public administration, philosophy, etc. and now can't find jobs. Who studies this shit?

All of you complaining didn't get conned. The trap was right in front of you and you walked right into it. I ain't paying for yall.

Don't need to be so harsh about it.. lol

Your point is right, though. People need to learn their job prospects are not very good if they major in something like art history or philosophy.

People with degrees in engineering, mathematics, computer science, physical science, finance, accounting, information systems aren't doing so bad though.

 

[LibertyEagle]

No, just showing your hypocrisy.

Since you seem to want to make this personal for whatever reason, no, I have never thought SS would be available by the time I retired.

I think you are being ridiculous, however, with your claim that SS is voluntary. It is taken out of your paycheck by your employer, at the government's directive. So how exactly is that voluntary?