Kansas Caucuses Thread

[Feeding the Abscess]

Well in the real world there is government and it must be funded.

The whole "percentage of income" is a Marxist argument, and if there is to be taxation it should be equal. Having the read the FairTax book it makes a lot more sense than the current system, and it allows more choice as it is dependent on the purchase of a product, rather than your money being taken before you see it.

http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer?pagename=about_fairtax_four#regressive

btw, I think Rand was talking about a flat tax. In the real world we do not just go from A to Z, there has to be transition. Rand understands this and it is why he is being successful.

In the real world, you don't get to a 0% tax rate by forcing everyone to pay a federal income tax (when half of Americans currently don't pay it) and then raising rates on the majority of people. Not only is that not an incremental step in the right direction, it's a massive step in the wrong direction.

 

[alucard13mmfmj]

I can understand people voting for Romney... but I just can't understand people voting for Santorum. Why is social conservatism more important than the economy/war/jobs????????????

I dont think independents and democrats would vote for a guy who might force them to believe in "christian" values. GOP is DOOOOOMED. DOOOOOOOMED.

 

[MozoVote]

One cool thing about 2012 over 2008 - more people have handheld devices, iPads, etc. In 2008 there would be something of a "blackout" as conventions unfolded and people were away from their computers.

I feel quite "old school" to be reading about everything from my desktop computer...

Or maybe that should be "old shcool" haha

 

[GeorgiaAvenger]

In the real world, you don't get to a 0% tax rate by forcing everyone to pay a federal income tax (when half of Americans currently don't pay it) and then raising rates on the majority of people. Not only is that not an incremental step in the right direction, it's a massive step in the wrong direction.

My goal is not to get to a 0% tax rate. I want to lower them as low as possible.

I believe that the tax burden should be shared by everybody otherwise we have one half paying for themselves and the other half.

 

[Feeding the Abscess]

My goal is not to get to a 0% tax rate. I want to lower them as low as possible.

I believe that the tax burden should be shared by everybody otherwise we have one half paying for themselves and the other half.

Your philosophy is pragmatism, and you're going to accuse someone else of supporting Marxian theory? You're a piece of work.

The government has no right to the fruits of your labor. My position on taxation follows from that stance; my goal is 0% taxation, and any changes in the tax code should be made in that direction. Rand Paul's tax plan moves in the opposite direction, and promotes a system in which 100% of people with a job will have their income stolen from them at a 17% rate. That is anti-liberty at its core.

 

[tbone717]

I understand 100% of what Paul says, I wonder what people have trouble understanding ?

If someone doesn't follow politics and/or current events to any great deal a lot of the references Paul makes do not resound with those people. And, those people make up the overwhelming majority of voters. While it would be ideal that people paid more attention to the issues of the day, it just isn't reality and honestly it has never been that way in our modern era.

 

[parocks]

173 votes in douglas. the country is doomed.

100 votes in Riley County, home of Kansas State.

 

[GeorgiaAvenger]

Your philosophy is pragmatism, and you're going to accuse someone else of supporting Marxian theory? You're a piece of work.

Pragmatic in the sense of living in reality, but my philosophy is the smaller government the better.

If you care about equality in government, in our representative republic, you cannot advocate some pay taxes while others do not. The bottom line is that it is not fair for us that pay. It is not our choice to pay, we have to or else there are penalties.

 

[Brett85]

I and many others wouldn't have voted for him, he would have needed to win over the neocon vote, which he may have been able to do. Rand has no problems with corporatism or sanctions; that is toxic to some people in the liberty movement.

Rand isn't opposed to corporations, no doubt. Many people here sound like left wing Marxists when talking about corporations. I'm glad Rand isn't one of those people.

 

[sailingaway]

Rand isn't opposed to corporations, no doubt. Many people here sound like left wing Marxists when talking about corporations. I'm glad Rand isn't one of those people.

CorporatISM is different, and I don't believe Rand is a corporatist. I do believe he is trying to drive hard bargains, but bargains he can tie down, which does put you on the slippery slope of compromise. I think Rand is the best we have after Ron, but it is yet to be seen where he draws his lines.

 

[socal]

Well I just got home. Disappointed by the news, but happy I got to cast my vote for Ron Paul today.

The Caucus was open from 10am to 1pm. We stayed the entire time. There was a good crowd of Paul supporters at the beginning, but throughout the whole process, a line of people (a lot of older folks of course) just kept coming in the door, going straight to the ballot box, dropping their vote, and leaving. This line didn't stop until 1pm.

Because of that neverending line... I'd say 40% Santy 30% Romney 15% Paul 5 % Gingrich.

So many evil looks!

I was the only one to boo. I booed this fire-breathing pastor that spoke for Santorum.

They wanted to take the Ballot boxes to a central location (7 precincts in Johnson County). We requested it be counted right there, but were denied. So the guy watching the ballots rode in the car with the people driving the box, and I followed to bring him back to the caucus site. We did this twice for 2 boxes. Kinda weird, but we made sure they arrived without any tampering. What happened from there? I can only hope for the best. We had one guy in there (all they would allow), but there was way too much counting for him to see it all.

Not too far from the total Johnson county results:

S - 47.1
R - 30.1
G - 11.2
P - 11.1

 

[Brett85]

He's advocating a 17% flat tax. On everybody. That is not in the interest of many people I know, and is statist to the core. Taxation is theft, and Rand Paul wants to steal more money from lower income folk than freaking Obama.

A 17% flat tax is better than what we have now. Rand Paul is an incrementalist, and while he realizes that we can't abolish the IRS over night, he still wants to eventually. But, you can't get rid of the IRS until you end the welfare state and the warfare state. That isn't going to happen anytime soon. People have to be realistic about what we can actually accomplish in the short term.

 

[tbone717]

A 17% flat tax is better than what we have now. Rand Paul is an incrementalist, and while he realizes that we can't abolish the IRS over night, he still wants to eventually. But, you can't get rid of the IRS until you end the welfare state and the warfare state. That isn't going to happen anytime soon. People have to be realistic about what we can actually accomplish in the short term.

People being unrealistic and not understanding the need for an incremental approach is why the Libertarian Party is an abysmal failure. Ideological purity sometimes clouds people's perception of reality.

 

[parocks]

Lol pretty much. Seems people enjoy being suckers for punishment all too often. Santorum is going to dominate virtually all of the central states in the country. These KS results shouldn't be a shock to anyone.

And as usual, the 'dependable kids' wind up turning out to be the opposite. I don't expect every single one of them at rallies to turn up voting, but christ, 173? That is just flat out embarrassing.

Why are you putting quotes around "dependable kids". No one ever said that.

Something is wrong with your brain. And others share that same illness.

You have to understand that WORK has to be done to GET OUT THE VOTE.

The kids like us. We don't have to spend any money to get them to like us. We do have to spend money because the kids are not reliable voters.

But we don't. So the kids don't show up. They like us. They are NOT DEPENDABLE.

But the Grandmas don't like us. And it's easier to spend the money, and do the work to get the kids to the polls than it is to persuade people who don't like you to vote for you.

 

[Brett85]

Well in the real world there is government and it must be funded.

The whole "percentage of income" is a Marxist argument, and if there is to be taxation it should be equal. Having the read the FairTax book it makes a lot more sense than the current system, and it allows more choice as it is dependent on the purchase of a product, rather than your money being taken before you see it.

http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer?pagename=about_fairtax_four#regressive

btw, I think Rand was talking about a flat tax. In the real world we do not just go from A to Z, there has to be transition. Rand understands this and it is why he is being successful.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to GeorgiaAvenger again.

 

[Feeding the Abscess]

Pragmatic in the sense of living in reality, but my philosophy is the smaller government the better.

If you care about equality in government, in our representative republic, you cannot advocate some pay taxes while others do not. The bottom line is that it is not fair for us that pay.

I don't care about equality in government. If only half of the people are stolen from, I don't advocate that everyone be stolen from in the name of "fairness" or "equality" (speaking of Marxism...) - I advocate that nobody be stolen from.

It is not our choice to pay, we have to or else there are penalties.

And I advocate ending that.

Rand isn't opposed to corporations, no doubt. Many people here sound like left wing Marxists when talking about corporations. I'm glad Rand isn't one of those people.

To be straight, corporations are a state-created concoction that eliminate personal responsibility. It's socialist - they profit from gains, and we cover losses or damages. Of the two, Ron holds the free market position.

People being unrealistic and not understanding the need for an incremental approach is why the Libertarian Party is an abysmal failure. Ideological purity sometimes clouds people's perception of reality.

To get to the goal of zero people paying taxes, we need to make everybody pay taxes.

Please tell me how that makes any sense, either from a pragmatist or principle-based stance.

 

[Keith and stuff]

Wonder how many of them voted? I'll guess less than 1/4. Looks like we're gonna get about 2,500 votes statewide.

1600+ YFP at KU? Paul received 173 votes in Douglas County. My guess is most of those voters don't attend KU.

 

[Brett85]

A corporation is simply a group of people who enter into a contract together. I don't see any problem with corporations. I would say that a "corporatist" is someone who supports subsidies and bailouts for corporations. Rand Paul certainly doesn't support that.

 

[tbone717]

I don't care about equality in government. If only half of the people are stolen from, I don't advocate that everyone be stolen from in the name of "fairness" or "equality" (speaking of Marxism...) - I advocate that nobody be stolen from...And I advocate ending that.

Advocating ending it, and having a realistic way to obtain that goal are two different things. Like it or not, no one is going to be able to end the IRS and income tax overnight. Those who think they can are living in the fantasy world of Libertarian blogs and forums.

 

[Benjam]

I'm very disappointed in my state. Vermont, Maine, NH, ND, Iowa, VA, and Washington have shown great things. We will continue to be shunned, but we continue to push forward. If Paul doesn't win in Tampa he will once again be the love-child of all economic talk like he was between '08 and '12 and the country will regret its decisions once again. However, a second ballot at the convention is a must. I wouldn't mind going to jail for casting my vote for a different candidate first ballot if it made a President Paul.