Just got off the phone with HQ

[kodoandkang]

why are people concerned about "blowback"? you are concerned that people will think ron paul is a fringe candidate and has loonies for followers? guess what, that ship sailed a long time ago. no one has given ron paul anything. everything ron paul and his followers have achieved so far they have gotten by fighting tooth and nail, inch by damn inch. the whole point of this campaign is to tell the truth anywhere and everywhere, "blowback" be damned.

it is a very slippery slope when you start doing things based on how you will be perceived. the next step maybe we can tone down all that polarizing talk about ending the fed. then maybe we should keep the troops in iraq a little longer and then..well you get the point. you start compromising and it's over. a diluted ron paul is not ron paul.

the beauty of paul's message though is there is no need to compromise. he has gained a huge following precisely because he tells the truth in the starkest of terms. just because he is in the national limelight these days there is no need to pretend he is a "proper" candidate.

 

[wis4rp]

Let Ron Paul and Team manage this. They're not stupid, geez, he's been in Congress for eons, he knows how these games are played. So, I trust him and his experience. When the time comes and Dr. Paul needs to unleash the hounds, he will, THEN get fired up and don't back down!

Right now, chill out, stay informed, and inform others!

 

[spudea]

I love almost all of Ron Paul's stated positions, but I've always had the feeling that he doesn't really want to be president and he'd be just fine with losing.

I don't think that is true at all. Ron Paul has been busting his ass for over 30 years preaching these same ideals. Until now he has lacked enough people around him to get these ideals into the mob mentality of the general public. Ron Paul is a true fighter. He will fight for freedom till the day he dies. If he loses the presidency it will be our fault for not recognizing this american hero sooner. Everything he has fought for in his life has been leading up to this moment. If he didn't want to be president and lead this country in a new direction, he could have quit long ago. He definetly wants to be president. But really that is insignificant if we can't get THE AMERICAN PEOPLE to want him as president!!


Now as far as our performance in Iowa and NH, you have to realize that our amazing fundrasing CAME TOO LATE to have any marginal effect on these early primaries. And when they finally did recieve our millions of donations, they realized this was gonna be a LONG FOUGHT campaign. HQ is definetly getting ready to dump a lot of money in all the Feb 5th states.

 

[morerocklesstalk]

I think energy is better used to focus on getting people aware of RP's stances on this issues.

People have been posting about Howard Stern's recent approval of Dr. Paul. He said he had no clue what his positions were but once he heard it he really agreed with him.

There are tons of people like Howard out there.

 

[libertygrl]

i don't know whether a recount would substantially change Dr Paul's numbers or his standing. but there is substantial circumstantial evidence that things went wrong.

PARTICULARLY on the Dem side! getting 38.8 to 34.7 in hand-counted ballots and 35.8 to 40.1 in machine-counted ballots is a serious statistical problem. and it would have a VERY LARGE IMPACT on the race. add into the mix the polls going into NH and everyone scratching their heads today about what in world caused Clinton to pull such a big upset.....

i think we should be contacting the Obama campaign and ask them to join with the Paul campaign to ask, if not for a full recount, at least a random audit of 5-10% of the precincts. from what i've read, only official candidates can challenge results and/or request recounts (could be wrong, but i read that somewhere).

Obama's campaign HQ: (866) 675-2008


i called. i asked if they were considering asking for a recount. he said no, it didn't seem like a big deal and they didn't want to seem like sore losers. i started talking about the discrepancies and he said, "you mean the difference between the exit polls and the actual tallies?" i said, "no, i mean the difference between the hand-counted votes and the machine-counted votes. the hand-counted votes put obama clearly in the lead." he said, "really??! this is the first i've heard of this." i told him i was a paul supporter and that i thought it might be good if the two campaigns teamed up to do something and he got real enthusiastic and said he would pass the info on. i also gave him the url: http://ronrox.com/paulstats.php

honestly... i would rather hillary get the nom, because she would be way easier to take down in the general, but right is right and wrong is wrong.

I may sound like a snob for saying this but I think Obama supporters are not as "enlighted" as some of the Paul supporters are. If they were aware of CFR, NWO, etc., they would be supporting Ron Paul instead! They're just as blind as the rest of the sheep and couldn't even imagine the possibilty of election fraud. That's why we need to educate them that this has happened in the past.

Personally my view all along is to team up with the Obama supporters. A 2 pronged attack against voter fraud shows that we are united as Americans, not advesaries and that the most important factor here is fair elections - whomever the candidate is. But maybe this should come from both grassroots groups - not the official campaigns.

 

[spudea]

"blowback" be damned.

In this case I agree, however there is a way to minimize blowback and that is to put responsibilities on individuals. Individual responsibility is the basis for Ron's entire campaign. Instead of calling for big government (RP2008) to initiate the recount, we need to find witnesses, get them representation, and bring this in front of NH courts.

RP2008 calling for a recount will destroy his campaign almost immediately. It is extremely important for votes to be accurate. But plastering this all over the news saying Ron Paul got cheated, they do a recount, and it doesn't change anything, we don't gain a single delegate, is insane.

 

[Bradley in DC]

Funny you should say that because there were some in this forum ordering us over and over and over and fucking over again to stop talking about the threat of voter fraud and how we desperately need poll watchers from the grassroots BECAUSE THE OFFICIAL CAMPAIGN IS ALREADY TAKING CARE OF IT.

Knew it was bullshit then and it's obvous now.

I've repeatedly made posts urging us to make sure all of our people are poll workers and to find out the vote counting processes in all of the states. Obviously, do NOT trust the competency of the official campaign staff.

For example on Feb 9th there will be a public testing of vote counting systems in DC. Someone needs to find out the processes in each of the states. Jan 29th is the last day to petition for poll watcher credentials in DC.

 

[Libertarian Ideals]

Have we forgotten what this movement is all about?

I would rather risk our "credibility*" than to live in deceit and fear.


*Another way to say fear of the majority's judgment.

But look what we have done by risking our credibility? We have made Fox News lose some credibility as well.

If 'they' are already rigging elections this early in the elections, they must be pretty desperate. The media doesn't have such a strong strangehold on the American mind as hoped.

More conclusive evidence the NH primaries may have been rigged.
http://www.seacoastonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080108/NEWS/801080404/-1/rss02

"There is absolutely no reason to consider any of the results to be credible. "
- Blackboxvoting.org


Just my 2 cents...

 

[Bradley in DC]

Some of you people also seem to forget this simple fact. The campaign has to answer to You and ME. We are their base, we are their boss.

+1

 

[Pharoah]

Does anyone know if the paper ballots were destroyed immediately after the vote?

 

[Birdlady]

This is MORE than just getting Ron Paul elected. We are at a crossroads of either showing the American people that our entire election system is fraudulent or just going back to what we have been doing for years (ignore it).

I cannot morally ignore the evidence that has been presented to us. If Ron Paul's campaign wants to ignore this, then I have to question their love for this country. It is not just about getting him elected. It is about keeping the integrity of our election system. For the love of God, understand that if they can steal a HAND COUNT, they will no doubt steal votes on the voting machines.

SUTTON WAS A HAND COUNT--IT WASN'T JUST THE VOTING MACHINES!

The town where they "mistakenly" transcribed the numbers WAS A HAND COUNT! Do you understand that. IT WAS A HAND COUNT. It was not the machine's fault. Someone purposely changed the number on the summary sheet which was given to the media.

I hate saying this stuff, but I will pull my Ron Paul sign out of my yard if they do not stand up the integrity of our election system. Who cares about the so called "blowback". IT"S OUR ELECTION SYSTEM. It doesn't matter what the blowback is, this is what our country is based upon!

 

[JayDee]

Yeah, they all think we are crazy anyhow.. screw them, lets prove the Republicans fixed their vote.

 

[american.swan]

I think dumping NewsCorp Stock would be more effective.

 

[JayDee]

I think dumping NewsCorp Stock would be more effective.

Ha, I can't think anyone here would still be holding it after the 6th.

 

[hopeful]

You have to realize that they might be right. If the vote was close then I could see it. But asking for a recount when you are in 5th place is going to make you a laughing stock. That's just the way it is.

I think the best thing we can do is publicize the voting inconsistencies ourselves to make people aware of it.

Zibblu....I agree 100%.........since 10:00 this morning people have been wasting their time. I ran a post the morning saying what you said, all I got was "ya, but it's the principle of it"

 

[defcreative]

This is MORE than just getting Ron Paul elected. We are at a crossroads of either showing the American people that our entire election system is fraudulent or just going back to what we have been doing for years (ignore it).

I cannot morally ignore the evidence that has been presented to us. If Ron Paul's campaign wants to ignore this, then I have to question their love for this country. It is not just about getting him elected. It is about keeping the integrity of our election system. For the love of God, understand that if they can steal a HAND COUNT, they will no doubt steal votes on the voting machines.

SUTTON WAS A HAND COUNT--IT WASN'T JUST THE VOTING MACHINES!

The town where they "mistakenly" transcribed the numbers WAS A HAND COUNT! Do you understand that. IT WAS A HAND COUNT. It was not the machine's fault. Someone purposely changed the number on the summary sheet which was given to the media.

I hate saying this stuff, but I will pull my Ron Paul sign out of my yard if they do not stand up the integrity of our election system. Who cares about the so called "blowback". IT"S OUR ELECTION SYSTEM. It doesn't matter what the blowback is, this is what our country is based upon!

You are absolutely right, this shit needs to stop now.

 

[angelatc]

I think dumping NewsCorp Stock would be more effective.

Not unless you're an institutional investor. The individual investors have no real impact on the market.

As for a recount, unless there is a way to audit the counties where the electronic machines were used, all the recounting of the manual ballots would be moot.

 

[Birdlady]

Zibblu....I agree 100%.........since 10:00 this morning people have been wasting their time. I ran a post the morning saying what you said, all I got was "ya, but it's the principle of it"

You are wrong. He could have been 2nd or 3rd place because of the sneaky business with the "Other" category.

Romney got inflated by about 14,000 votes! Obama got robbed of a WIN in NH. Regardless of whether or not you like him, it's our election system people. We are not picking Miss America!!

 

[Catatonic]

This is MORE than just getting Ron Paul elected. We are at a crossroads of either showing the American people that our entire election system is fraudulent or just going back to what we have been doing for years (ignore it).

I cannot morally ignore the evidence that has been presented to us. If Ron Paul's campaign wants to ignore this, then I have to question their love for this country. It is not just about getting him elected. It is about keeping the integrity of our election system. For the love of God, understand that if they can steal a HAND COUNT, they will no doubt steal votes on the voting machines.

SUTTON WAS A HAND COUNT--IT WASN'T JUST THE VOTING MACHINES!

The town where they "mistakenly" transcribed the numbers WAS A HAND COUNT! Do you understand that. IT WAS A HAND COUNT. It was not the machine's fault. Someone purposely changed the number on the summary sheet which was given to the media.

I hate saying this stuff, but I will pull my Ron Paul sign out of my yard if they do not stand up the integrity of our election system. Who cares about the so called "blowback". IT"S OUR ELECTION SYSTEM. It doesn't matter what the blowback is, this is what our country is based upon!

Well, its obvious we got much higher in the hand count areas than electronic voting. Among hand counted districts we got 15%, but overall 7.5-8%?

Just saying, there's fraud in hand counting too but the fraud is much bigger from voting machines. We can only speculate what percentage of voters actually voted for ron paul. Maybe 20-25%? I don't think second place would be out of the question.

 

[defcreative]

Zibblu....I agree 100%.........since 10:00 this morning people have been wasting their time. I ran a post the morning saying what you said, all I got was "ya, but it's the principle of it"

Its not about winning NH, its about the fact that there was CLEAR FRAUD. If there is clear fraud in this primary, its likely there will be fraud everywhere. How do we expect to have a chance of winning at all if we keep having fraud STEAL OUR VOTES, next time it may be THOUSANDS OF VOTES and we would never even know.

We need to send out a message to any criminals messing with the votes that they will end up investigated and put in prison if they try to undermine our democracy.