Judge Rules Trump Committed Fraud, Stripping Control of Key Properties

[Occam's Banana]

Ok, the orange one can do no wrong and runs big beautiful perfect businesses, you all win. I explained, you all don't accept the reality of the situation, I'm done.

No one said any such thing. You are projecting your own absurd binary onto others.

So all of you defending Trump already made your donations right?

You really aren't capable of understanding anything except in terms of it being "for" or "against" Trump, are you?

​

"Defending Trump" (on one hand) and opposing the state for engaging in blatantly - and in this case, even explicitly - politically-motivated litigation in which no victims can be identified and no damages can be specified (on the other hand) are entirely different things.

No, they were out to get Trump. This is a selective prosecution, many others do the same and got away with it. That doesn't mean Trump isn't guilty of it.

Those "many others [who] do the same and got away with it" did not do anything wrong, either. Neither Trump nor they should be considered to be "guilty" of anything (and not just because the legal concept of "guilt" does not apply in civil cases).

And you can just stow your hand-waving shuck-and-jive bullshit about hypothetical wannabe borrowers who supposedly didn't get loans "because Trump". For one thing, would-be borrowers are not entitled to loans just because they want them. For another thing, one could just as easily argue that more borrowers, not fewer, ended up getting loans "because Trump", since Trump paid back the loans in full and with interest (thereby supplying the bank with more loanable assets). It's all just a flimsy excuse for pretending that Trump is somehoe "guilty" of something in this case.

 

[Matt4Liberty]

I should have continued my thought.
I'm going by, the "premium loan value" is as a residence which as far as the lenders ability to recover money in case of a default is what matters. Lender forecloses, it sells Mara Lago as a private residence. The taxed value doesn't matter. Not that you are saying one way or the other.

For sure. My only point is that just about everyone has a different assessed value for tax and loan purposes. It might not be this extreme, but it's usually a big difference.

The conservation easement Trump put on the property limited its use to that of a social club. See post # 26 in this thread.

That easement can be easily terminated. The property value would then be quickly reassessed closer to it's true value. The conservation easement is a deal that was made. While Trump pays significantly less tax, having one of the most (if not the most) prestigious social clubs on their barrier island tremendously increases the value of the surrounding properties. The county gets their value back from everyone else's taxes. At this point, that likely wouldn't change if it was sold, and the county would likely be happy to get the increase in taxes.

 

[unknown]

At least she's being honest about the targeted persecution.


https://thehill.com/homenews/state-...r-about-trump-verdict-nothing-to-worry-about/

 

[GlennwaldSnowdenAssanged]

So basically the Government steals his property and extorts a half billion dollars from them.
This is a better gig than trying to stop travelers to seize cash.
If you are being framed by a rival you would hope you could plead your case to the court.
When the court is framing you, you are screwed.
Truly any person alive is only afforded limited security status at the Governments discretion.
You are a criminal and you don't even know it. What you thought was yours is really the Governments..

 

[Sonny Tufts]

That easement can be easily terminated.

Hardly. Under Florida law the easement is perpetual. Florida Statutes 704.06:

(2) Conservation easements are perpetual, undivided interests in property and may be created or stated in the form of a restriction, easement, covenant, or condition in any deed, will, or other instrument executed by or on behalf of the owner of the property, or in any order of taking.

(12) An owner of property encumbered by a conservation easement must abide by the requirements of chapter 712 or any other similar law or rule to preserve the conservation easement in perpetuity.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes...ing=&URL=0700-0799/0704/Sections/0704.06.html

Incidentally, the easement was granted to the National Trust for Historic Preservation, not the local government.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

Here’s how Trump could dump his NY empire to pay his $355M civil fraud ruling — with the ex-prez’s iconic NYC tower even being on the chopping block

Luxe Manhattan skyscrapers, championship-caliber golf courses, and a 200-acre Westchester estate could all be up for grabs as Donald Trump strains to pay the $355 million civil fraud ruling that a New York judge slapped him with this week.

A host of Trump properties in Manhattan, Westchester, and the Hudson Valley — even his iconic $348 million Trump Tower — could end up on the chopping block, sources told The Post, as a 30-day deadline to pay the fine imposed by Manhattan Supreme Court Justice Arthur Engoron looms.
...
“The glaring disconnect between $355 million in fines and $0 in actual damages raises obvious concerns over grossly excessive awards,” Turley said. “In extreme cases, it can be a violation of due process under the federal constitution.”

But before any other court can review Engoron’s decision, Trump will have to pay hundreds of millions out of a portfolio based mainly on residential properties, commercial buildings, and resort holdings in New York City and around the world.

That could put any of Trump’s New York properties — including two of his 18 golf resorts, his $248 million tower at 40 Wall Street, a $283 million commercial building at 6 East 57th Street, the $30 million Seven Springs estate in Westchester County, and Trump’s longtime penthouse home in Fifth Avenue’s Trump Tower — under threat.
...
“The amount he will have to put up will be in excess of $450 million, just to appeal,” a person familiar with the case told The Post.

In civil matters, it’s customary for judges to require up to 120% of a fine to be held in escrow while the case wends its way through the court system.
...
Engoron’s ruling slapped a 9% interest charge on top of Trump’s fine, which will accrue daily until it’s paid.

And Trump will have to collect the money fast: he has just 30 days to come up with the cash, or to find a surety company to guarantee it for him – using some of his properties as collateral.

No bank that does business in New York is permitted to lend to the former president, under the terms of Engoron’s ruling.

“By imposing an astronomical award, Engoron made it difficult to even appeal his decision,” Turley said, calling it “one of the most insidious aspects of the ruling.”
...
https://nypost.com/2024/02/17/us-ne...ny-empire-to-pay-his-355m-civil-fraud-ruling/

 

[Anti Federalist]

https://twitter.com/EndWokeness/status/1759271497678700556

 

[unknown]

Holy fuck, you have to pay before you can appeal...

Justice system seems... unjust (tyrannical).

 

[Sonny Tufts]

Holy fuck, you have to pay before you can appeal...

Justice system seems... unjust (tyrannical).

You might not feel that way if you were a plaintiff who recovered a monetary judgment against someone. The purpose of an appeal bond is to insure that there's money to pay you if the appeal is unsuccessful (which might take years). It also protects you against the defendant's going bankrupt during the appeal process. In addition, it deters frivolous appeals.

 

[Anti Federalist]

You might not feel that way if you were a plaintiff who recovered a monetary judgment against someone. The purpose of an appeal bond is to insure that there's money to pay you if the appeal is unsuccessful (which might take years). It also protects you against the defendant's going bankrupt during the appeal process. In addition, it deters frivolous appeals.

In this case, what plaintiff?

There is no damaged party to be "made whole" again.

So who gets this money?

And if there really was a injured party here, how is taking away the ability to make money helping pay this "restitution"?

He could rent out Trump Tower and some other properties to house invaders and get that judgement paid off in no time.

https://twitter.com/The_Nomad_News/status/1759478399033016628

 

[WarriorLiberty]

Seems to me that the so called Court Cases agaisnt Trump and his "Business" isn't much about businesses but the Properties..

A bit of ironic considering NYC wants to host migrants.

 

[69360]

Hardly. Under Florida law the easement is perpetual. Florida Statutes 704.06:



http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes...ing=&URL=0700-0799/0704/Sections/0704.06.html

Incidentally, the easement was granted to the National Trust for Historic Preservation, not the local government.

Living in Florida now, I can tell you that nothing is perpetual. If you have the right connections, easments can go away just like that.

It's also interesting to note that, as a social club, Trump is not even supposed to be living in Mar a Lago, but he does.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Living in Florida now, I can tell you that nothing is perpetual. If you have the right connections, easments can go away just like that.

It's also interesting to note that, as a social club, Trump is not even supposed to be living in Mar a Lago, but he does.

Why not?

 

[69360]

Why not?

When Trump changed it to a social club and got the easment for the tax break, the stipulation was that it could not be used as a residence. Trump basically ignored that.

 

[Anti Federalist]

When Trump changed it to a social club and got the easment for the tax break, the stipulation was that it could not be used as a residence. Trump basically ignored that.

Ah, OK.

 

[unknown]

What about Alex Jones, he has to pay $1 Billion before he can appeal?

 

[dannno]

When Trump changed it to a social club and got the easment for the tax break, the stipulation was that it could not be used as a residence. Trump basically ignored that.

Ah, OK.

It's a hotel social club. People stay there. He's staying at a room in his own hotel..

 

[dannno]

At least she's being honest about the targeted persecution.


https://thehill.com/homenews/state-...r-about-trump-verdict-nothing-to-worry-about/

https://twitter.com/Providential/status/1759064588530634869

“Briefly stated, the Gell-Mann Amnesia effect is as follows. You open the newspaper to an article on some subject you know well. In Murray's case, physics. In mine, show business. You read the article and see the journalist has absolutely no understanding of either the facts or the issues. Often, the article is so wrong it actually presents the story backward—reversing cause and effect. I call these the "wet streets cause rain" stories. Paper's full of them.In any case, you read with exasperation or amusement the multiple errors in a story, and then turn the page to national or international affairs, and read as if the rest of the newspaper was somehow more accurate about Palestine than the baloney you just read. You turn the page, and forget what you know.”


― Michael Crichton

[MENTION=32418]69360[/MENTION]

 

[unknown]

As it is, when going after the citizen, the State has nearly unlimited tax payer funds and resources.

Without the financial means to pay for a competent defense, the citizen will most likely be found guilty, whether he is or not.

Sounds like the State can also easily prevent the appeal of an unlawful, unjust, immoral, biased judgment, simply by imposing an arbitrarily high penalty...

 

[69360]

https://twitter.com/Providential/status/1759064588530634869




[MENTION=32418]69360[/MENTION]

I'm well aware others do what Trump did, that doesn't make it legal.

I'm also well aware that they targeted Trump for something others got away with.

I never once said it wasn't a selective prosectution for political reasons.

I just said that Trump did what they claimed he did.