Judge Rules Trump Committed Fraud, Stripping Control of Key Properties

[Anti Federalist]

It's a hotel social club. People stay there. He's staying at a room in his own hotel..

Well, that was what I figured, or he stays in the "owner's suite" or something like that.

 

[Occam's Banana]

In this case, what plaintiff?

There is no damaged party to be "made whole" again.

So who gets this money?

In this case, the "plaintiff" is the one who employs the Attorney General "plaintiff's" attorney - and the judge, too.

IOW: The State.

IOOW: Justice "Just Us" (but not you and me)

 

[Anti Federalist]

In this case, the "plaintiff" is the one who employs the Attorney General "plaintiff's" attorney - and the judge, too.

IOW: The State.

IOOW: Justice "Just Us" (but not you and me)

Anarcho-Tyranny

 

[dannno]

I'm well aware others do what Trump did, that doesn't make it legal.

I'm also well aware that they targeted Trump for something others got away with.

I never once said it wasn't a selective prosectution for political reasons.

I just said that Trump did what they claimed he did.

That's not what he said. Listen. That is literally their job. That is all they do, all day, every day. It's 100% legal. You don't know anything about economic finance or valuations, obviously. All valuations are subjective. You are allowed to lie on a job application or a resume, it's the employer's responsibility to verify. You are allowed to lie on a loan application, it's up to the bank to verify with an appraisal. If you lie egregiously, you might not get the loan, because banks tend to do their due diligence and will find out. They may not want to deal with you. If you lie on a job application, the employer may find out and not hire you. But it's not against the law. It also can be a common mistake, rather than a lie, there is no way to prove it was a lie.

 

[A Son of Liberty]

I'm well aware others do what Trump did, that doesn't make it legal.

I'm also well aware that they targeted Trump for something others got away with.

I never once said it wasn't a selective prosectution for political reasons.

I just said that Trump did what they claimed he did.

Did you not listen to what the man said? This is how real estate development actually works. As a loan applicant, you state your collateral value at X. The lender states the value at X/x. And at the end of the day, it is up to the lender to agree or disagree with whatever valuation they deem to be fair, and to lend based on that criteria. There is nothing criminal about that. That's called a "negotiation", and in the end, once the lender determines the value of the collateral and makes the loan, the borrower is either obliged to agree to those terms, or seek financing elsewhere.

I'm seriously not sure why this is even a question. This is such a clear-cut case of lawfare that it lowers the American judicial system to Soviet-style levels of corruption.

Full disclosure - while I'm not a Trump supporter, I will 100% support him over the clearly corrupt and creepingly revolutionary democrats every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

 

[nobody's_hero]

I guess next time anyone takes out a loan, they need to call this judge and ask what he thinks their assets are worth.

I took out a loan for my current home in 2015. It was listed for $129k, I offered $4,000 over that. Even offered to pay all the closing costs and fees. (I really wanted the house.) The bank approved the loan for $133k.

Did I defraud the bank? I mean, I know it's a little bit different situation, and I'm not running for president against the left's favorite dementia patient. But still, I guess I'd better stay out of New York (which will be easy.)

 

[69360]

It's a hotel social club. People stay there. He's staying at a room in his own hotel..

He is registered to vote with his address as Mar a Lago.

 

[69360]

That's not what he said. Listen. That is literally their job. That is all they do, all day, every day. It's 100% legal. You don't know anything about economic finance or valuations, obviously. All valuations are subjective. You are allowed to lie on a job application or a resume, it's the employer's responsibility to verify. You are allowed to lie on a loan application, it's up to the bank to verify with an appraisal. If you lie egregiously, you might not get the loan, because banks tend to do their due diligence and will find out. They may not want to deal with you. If you lie on a job application, the employer may find out and not hire you. But it's not against the law. It also can be a common mistake, rather than a lie, there is no way to prove it was a lie.

You are the one not listening. The shark tank guy is saying that everyone lies about their net worth and the value of their properties. I didn't dispute that. Trump got caught doing it. They didn't just make up shit, he did this. It's not legal, it's fraud.

 

[acptulsa]

It's not legal, it's fraud.

If it's illegal, why no proper prosecution and beyond a reasonable doubt criminal trial?

 

[A Son of Liberty]

You are the one not listening. The shark tank guy is saying that everyone lies about their net worth and the value of their properties. I didn't dispute that. Trump got caught doing it. They didn't just make up $#@!, he did this. It's not legal, it's fraud.

lol

The value of a piece of property is 100% subjective. I bought a piece of property just recently for 15K more than asking, because I had a certain subjective value ascribed to it. My offer was accepted. From my perspective, the sellers undervalued their property. I offered more than the asking price because I wanted to be sure I got the property.

There's no "lying" about the subjective value of a piece of property. It's just a matter of negotiation, and how much the lender is willing to lend.

I remain perplexed about what is so difficult about this.

 

[69360]

If it's illegal, why no proper prosecution and beyond a reasonable doubt criminal trial?

Because they got him on civil fraud. NY law allows this. Somebody cited the statute in an earlier post.

 

[69360]

lol

The value of a piece of property is 100% subjective. I bought a piece of property just recently for 15K more than asking, because I had a certain subjective value ascribed to it. My offer was accepted. From my perspective, the sellers undervalued their property. I offered more than the asking price because I wanted to be sure I got the property.

There's no "lying" about the subjective value of a piece of property. It's just a matter of negotiation, and how much the lender is willing to lend.

I remain perplexed about what is so difficult about this.

This was already explained in previous posts, you didn't read or don't care to

 

[acptulsa]

Because they got him on civil fraud. NY law allows this.

Does the Constitution?

Do you really have no problem whatsoever with a government having used a civil court to prosecute this to an unconstitutional standard, or are you just happy they "got" this guy and principle and precedent both be damned?

This was already explained in previous posts, you didn't read or don't care to

Do you care to address that point?

 

[dannno]

You are the one not listening. The shark tank guy is saying that everyone lies about their net worth and the value of their properties. I didn't dispute that. Trump got caught doing it. They didn't just make up shit, he did this. It's not legal, it's fraud.

No, he didn't. Please post the quote where he said that. He did not. He said they shine the brightest and most optimistic light on it, because value is subjective. You can't "lie" in a legal sense about something that is subjective. It's like saying, "hey man, promote this artist's new album, it's the best album ever!". Is that a lie? Can you really objectively say that the album was NOT the best album ever? No, you can't, because music is subjective. So are valuations. If A Son of Liberty hadn't come along, it is likely nobody would have bought that property for that amount. It was pure happenstance he happened to find it, place that value on it, and buy it. Value is NOT FUCKING OBJECTIVE. There is no "objective" value, markets and buyers are constantly in flux. He could have just as easily found another property a month earlier that he liked and bought that, and not been in the market at the time. There are also several methods to valuing assets, some of them rely on forecasting future sales quantities and the value of those sales. That is not fucking objective.

I said you can lie, because you can.. just not in a legal sense. You can't prove that somebody's opinion on a value is a lie, rather than just being really optimistic. He did not say that, but it's true.

You are literally regarded.... as someone who doesn't know much about this stuff..

 

[acptulsa]

You are literally regarded.

You don't seem to...

 

[69360]

Does the Constitution?

Do you really have no problem whatsoever with a government having used a civil court to prosecute this to an unconstitutional standard, or are you just happy they "got" this guy and principle and precedent both be damned?



Do you care to address that point?

When you do things like overstate your net worth or overvalue your property, you take the chance that it will come back to bite you in the ass especially if you are a public figure. It did for Trump. That's all I have to say.

 

[Anti Federalist]

When you do things like overstate your net worth or overvalue your property, you take the chance that it will come back to bite you in the ass especially if you are a public figure. It did for Trump. That's all I have to say.

Three felonies a day.

Trump is guilty.

So are you.

So am I.

 

[dannno]

When you do things like overstate your net worth or overvalue your property, you take the chance that it will come back to bite you in the ass especially if you are a public figure. It did for Trump. That's all I have to say.

Except literally everybody does that, because value is subjective, and it is completely 100% legal.

 

[acptulsa]

.... as someone who doesn't know much about this stuff..

LOL

Cute edit.

He knows as much as you do. He just has different blinders on than yours.

 

[CaptUSA]

Three felonies a day.

Trump is guilty.

So are you.

So am I.

Right.