it's happening!!!! 36% of Republicans willing to cross over to 3rd party for Trump

[wizardwatson]

No.

I support Trump because he represents an opportunity to keep the country from lapsing into full blown, warmongering Marxism.

I could support Rand for the same reasons, but his campaign has been a disaster and at this point, it would require the come-back of all times for him to become a viable candidate again.

It's hard for me to even believe you are sincere. At this point in 2007 Ron Paul campaign we had campaign buttons that said "Who the Hell is Ron Paul?" And yet, we aren't even at the first official debate and you are throwing in the towel?

And this is coming from someone who also has problems with Rand's campaign. But just because I'm pissed at Rand for whatever reason doesn't mean I abandon reason and go pitch my tent with the Satanists. It just means I become a loner again.

This idea that because we don't have Ron in 2016 and we have imperfecter-every-day-Rand, we should become fascists to "save the country" is ludicrous. Maybe not ludicrous to "America", but certainly ludicrous on ronpaulforums.com

 

[David Sadler]

His bread and butter issue has been calling for more government intervention in immigration.

Start an appropriately titled thread to accumulate examples of why a sovereign nation should not control its borders, and show examples (with citations and links) as to how Trump violates your idea of 'liberty' because he wishes to maintain secure national borders and regulate immigration.

Do you live in an apartment or a house? Does it have doors and windows? Do you regulate who enters your domicile? When you turn on the heat or the a/c, do you close the doors and windows, or do you leave them open in an attempt to make it more comfortable for those who do not have the privilege of living in your domicile? Are you actually a nationalist at the individual level when it comes to your own home and your own personal well-being?

 

[Todd]

Some people need to visit some of Anti Federalist's threads on teh Donald for some perspective.

When Dr. Paul says Trump is dangerous because his philosophical belief system is Authoritarian in nature, then I'm not sure how people believe this represents the course we all set out to achieve when we started supporting the Liberty movement.

 

[Smitty]

Of course the remnant was into politics. Many of them for the first time ever. The RNC in conjunction with the Romney campaign spit in their faces.

Bad deal, to be sure.

But there's no reason to think that the enthusiasm of 2007 or 2011 will materialize again any time soon.

 

[David Sadler]

So when he was turned down a request to allow Trump to speak at an koch event, he gets mad and tweets that he doesn't wanna go. He asked and was rejected.

What's the citation and link to your claim? I'll be glad to add it to the campaign financing thread.

 

[AuH20]

Some people need to visit some of Anti Federalist's threads on teh Donald for some perspective.

When Dr. Paul says Trump is dangerous because his philosophical belief system is Authoritarian in nature, then I'm not sure how people believe this represents the course we all set out to achieve when we started supporting the Liberty movement.

Those positions have already been mentioned in this thread by yours truly. This is a comprehensive discussion of Trump, weighing the good and the bad. No one here is dismissing his negative points.

 

[Smitty]

When Dr. Paul says Trump is dangerous because his philosophical belief system is Authoritarian in nature, then I'm not sure how people believe this represents the course we all set out to achieve when we started supporting the Liberty movement.

Well,...many of us didn't expect to see the *ahem* "Liberty" candidate at the Wailing Wall with a yarmulke on his head.

 

[jj-]

Start an appropriately titled thread to accumulate examples of why a sovereign nation should not control its borders, and show examples (with citations and links) as to how Trump violates your idea of 'liberty' because he wishes to maintain secure national borders and regulate immigration.

I think that someone who thinks that if you're not for open borders then you're automatically a white supremacist stormfront supporter, is not likely to be persuaded by arguments, because that point of view is just lunatic.

 

[Cleaner44]

I support Rand Paul and his efforts to destroy the Washington Machine. I think that Trump is a different (although weaker) threat to the Washington Machine and especially think he is a threat to the GOP establishment. If Rand is not the GOP nominee, I want to see Trump break as much of the establishment machine as possible. I don't have any delusions about Trump standing for liberty or not being a statist, but I still think he is healthy for the process.

Politics as usual sucks and Trump isn't politics as usual. This should be something to see.

 

[erowe1]

Do you regulate who enters your domicile?

Yes. But if you're for immigration laws, then you're against my being allowed to do that, and for the government telling me who I can and can't allow on my property.

I also notice how slyly you moved the goal post. A moment ago the question was whether or not Trump was for big government. Now, when it's obvious that he is, the question is whether or not that's a bad thing.

 

[Cleaner44]

Some people need to visit some of Anti Federalist's threads on teh Donald for some perspective.

When Dr. Paul says Trump is dangerous because his philosophical belief system is Authoritarian in nature, then I'm not sure how people believe this represents the course we all set out to achieve when we started supporting the Liberty movement.

All of the candidates other than Rand Paul are authoritarian. Trump is useful strictly for fucking with the Bush type authoritarian establishment that wants to dictate the GOP nominee.

 

[erowe1]

Well,...many of us didn't expect to see the *ahem* "Liberty" candidate at the Wailing Wall with a yarmulke on his head.

Why would anyone not expect a liberty candidate to do that?

 

[wizardwatson]

Showing some examples to justify your claims would give more legitimacy to your criticism of Trump. Otherwise, it comes off as demagoguery.

Maybe start some threads where examples posted by Trump opponents could be accumulated by subject.

Examples:
TRUMP: examples of big government tendencies
TRUMP: examples of authoritarian tendencies
TRUMP: examples of fascist tendencies

Why is it the job of RPF members to support Trump by analyzing and vetting him? Where is his credentials? This is "Ron Paul Forums". Rand Paul got a pass because Ron said him and his son were aligned on most of the major issues.

Has Ron Paul said that Donald Trump is aligned with him on the issues?

Movements, like pornography and conflicts of interest, are hard to define, but you know them when you see them.

It's difficult to see a 'liberty movement' on the political scene today. It's more like a 'liberty scramble' where everyone is either looking for a movement to attach themselves to or where a few claim to represent 'the movement' where none actually exists. The Ron Paul liberty inspired movement fractured during the last couple of months of Ron's last POTUS run.

As one example, it's doubtful that many in the Oath Keepers organization would be seen by the fundamentalist libertarians as belonging to the 'liberty movement,' but within the Oath Keepers; they see themselves as one of the vanguards for protecting liberty.

There are a select few on the RPF that claim the title and mantle of being the surviving members of the authentic 'liberty movement.' This is a sad situation, because it's divorced from reality. It's even laughable that a few people on the RPF think they are 'the liberty movement' or that they represent 'the liberty movement.'

All hands are needed on deck if our individual and collective liberty and prosperity are going to be defended and allowed to grow in the years ahead. It will take a leader of national stature and/or an event of a very serious nature to begin to rebuild the liberty movement and get everyone moving in the same direction behind one candidate. Until then, the scramble is on.

There you go again. "and prosperity" What is that about? Sounds really creepy the way you keep saying it. Very nationalistic. We aren't big on nationalism around here. And in a forum of anti-collectivists you even used the term "collective liberty". What is that about?

You keep saying that being part of the liberty movement is "sad", "laughable", "divorced from reality", "it's over go home".

"All hands are needed on deck." You are trying to discredit those who support Ron Paul and Rand Paul it seems to me and "manhandle" everyone to "get in line" with the "reality" of the situation. We're just dumb kids who will be swept away by social darwinism. So sad. The only reality is that we are outnumbered. But we were always outnumbered. The fact that these forces are now inside the gates doesn't change the fact that we aren't going to surrender and abandon principle.

If you must no, I'm officially supporting Limberbutt McCubbins in 2016. #MeowIsTheTime

You seem to forget that there are also quite a few Christians in this movement and on this board. Some of us think the world is ending anyway, would look pretty bad if for our last act on earth was siding with the fascists.

 

[David Sadler]

... why do you keep talking about "prosperity"? Liberty is far more important, hence why we pledge our "lives and sacred treasures" for it. You can't serve two masters.

Poverty is a tyrant that limits a person's liberty in a society that runs on money. Cut off all forms of income and see how liberated you feel. To get a jump on this exercise, open your power junction box and through the main switch. Turn off the water main and gas, if you have it, coming into your domicile. Stop buying food. Begin to relish your 'liberty' in a society that runs on money.

 

[wizardwatson]

Poverty is a tyrant that limits a person's liberty in a society that runs on money. Cut off all forms of income and see how liberated you feel. To get a jump on this exercise, open your power junction box and through the main switch. Turn off the water main and gas, if you have it, coming into your domicile. Stop buying food. Begin to relish your 'liberty' in a society that runs on money.

Probably more liberated. Liberty doesn't come from money and utilities Mr. David.

Liberty comes from God.

Maybe you need a Ron Paul refresher on this concept:

On May 13, 2011, 2008 Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul formally announced he is running again in 2012. A medical doctor from Texas, Paul is known for his libertarian views. Raised a Lutheran, he baptized his children in the Episcopal Church and says he now attends a Baptist church in Texas. Watch excerpts from Paul’s June 3, 2011 speech to the Faith and Freedom Coalition in Washington, where he describes his views on abortion, liberty, and limited government.

Ron Paul: Liberty Comes from the Creator
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/religionandethics/2011/06/07/ron-paul-liberty-comes-from-the-creator/8972/

Try again.

 

[ifthenwouldi]

Trump is hardly the first flash-in-the-pan demagogue this country has seen. By the time of the first caucuses/primaries, he won't even be in the conversation. Just wait him out and enjoy the damage he is doing to the Bush and Rubio camps.

Yep. Once the Trump Brand (TM) has sufficiently squeezed out the attention it desires, he'll happily retreat to the world of celebrity. He clearly has no interest in actually governing.

So being "an outsider" and being "anti establishment" is more important then being right on the issues.

Most American votes based on emotions; it just happens that Trump appeals to the emotional core of the WASP male. (Which, I might add, is a frightening indictment of the emotional backwash that resides under the surface in this country).

 

[nikcers]

Poverty is a tyrant that limits a person's liberty in a society that runs on money. Cut off all forms of income and see how liberated you feel. To get a jump on this exercise, open your power junction box and through the main switch. Turn off the water main and gas, if you have it, coming into your domicile. Stop buying food. Begin to relish your 'liberty' in a society that runs on money.

I say we all do it, we'll call it freedom club. You are quick to offer trump as a poison pill that we should take, but you haven't really shown me any policies of his, that really align with ours. You haven't really refuted the argument that he is pretty much the opposite of Ron Paul, you are quick to tell us to prove it. You are the one presenting the challenging argument that we are wrong. You are shifting the burden of proof onto us. You are the only person who is obliged to offer proof here.

 

[cat_woman]

What is wrong with some people? How does one go from supporting Rand and the Liberty movement to supporting leftist loud mouth Trump?

I find it very disturbing to find some people who supposedly supported Rand are now switching to Trump of all people. Is this based on the media's 24/7 preoccupation with Trump? Not to mention some conservative sites need to change their names to Trump news, since the other candidates (including Rand of course) are being almost entirely ignored?

Aren't liberty supporters smart enough to know we shouldn't pay any attention to most "news" sources?

I joined this forum because I support Rand and wanted to be part of an online community of like minded people. Instead I see a lot of negativity, and of some people willing to throw Rand under the bus in favor of a bombastic blow hard who would lose in a Goldwater like landslide to the eventual D nominee.

 

[cat_woman]

That will only put Hillary in office. Idiots!

Or any D, including Sanders and Biden. No one has higher negatives among swing voters than Donald does, and without swing voters it is impossible to win.

The person who polls best against Hillary head to head is Rand.

 

[nikcers]

What is wrong with some people? How does one go from supporting Rand and the Liberty movement to supporting leftist loud mouth Trump?

I find it very disturbing to find some people who supposedly supported Rand are now switching to Trump of all people. Is this based on the media's 24/7 preoccupation with Trump? Not to mention some conservative sites need to change their names to Trump news, since the other candidates (including Rand of course) are being almost entirely ignored?

Aren't liberty supporters smart enough to know we shouldn't pay any attention to most "news" sources?

I joined this forum because I support Rand and wanted to be part of an online community of like minded people. Instead I see a lot of negativity, and of some people willing to throw Rand under the bus in favor of a bombastic blow hard who would lose in a Goldwater like landslide to the eventual D nominee.

24/7 news cycle feeding an astro turf campaign, poor short term memory (trump polled #1 in 2011 for a min too), lack of forward momentum due to losing the election, and an disinformation campaign designed to entice people into the Bernie Sanders "movement" that was designed by Bill Clinton's 2016 campaign to get the white progressive vote. Bill Clinton used a billionaire 3rd party run to get elected the last time too.