it's happening!!!! 36% of Republicans willing to cross over to 3rd party for Trump

[Sola_Fide]

Sure, but people who claim to be within the liberty movement shouldn't think the same way that most Americans do. A candidate's stance on the issues should be more important to us than whether or not they're anti establishment.

Trump is more establishment than almost all of the other Republicans.

 

[thoughtomator]

Trump is hardly the first flash-in-the-pan demagogue this country has seen. By the time of the first caucuses/primaries, he won't even be in the conversation. Just wait him out and enjoy the damage he is doing to the Bush and Rubio camps.

 

[AuH20]

Trump is more establishment than almost all of the other Republicans.

No way. Bush, Christie, Walker, Rubio, Fiorina & Kasich all grovel at the feet of the CoC and the big RNC donors. Carson, Cruz & Rand are the only candidates more independently conservative than Trump.

 

[Sola_Fide]

Trump is hardly the first flash-in-the-pan demagogue this country has seen. By the time of the first caucuses/primaries, he won't even be in the conversation. Just wait him out and enjoy the damage he is doing to the Bush and Rubio camps.

I agree. People here are going to be ashamed that they jumped on the bbandwagon.

 

[Sola_Fide]

No way. Bush, Christie, Walker, Rubio, Fiorina & Kasich all grovel at the feet of the CoC and the big RNC donors. Carson, Cruz & Rand are the only candidates more independently conservative than Trump.

Do you view corporatism as establishment? I do.

 

[AuH20]

Do you view corporatism as establishment? I do.

If Trump was as corporatist as you attest he would be pushing open borders and TPP. The shoe doesn't fit as of now.

 

[Smitty]

Do you view corporatism as establishment? I do.

Use that for a campaign slogan for Rand. See if it gives him a bump in the polls.

 

[David Sadler]

Pay attention, Davey ... "Being an asshole" is an ancient lost virtue according to (Curtis Yarvin (Mencius Moldbug)) (... specifically encourages his followers to be assholes) ... It seems more and more of them are coming out of the closet these days. Apparently, a lot of them have old accounts.

How is this approach of yours when addressing me, as you have in your post, not being as 'asshole?'

... the Tucker article seems very on point to me with what I've gathered from Trump and his supporters here so far.

From the article:

Trump is the fascist candidate. Let's just get it out there.

1) The US already operates as a combination of government and corporate power so how is the US not already fascist in your opinion? This is one of the issues people who are seeking to defend and maximize liberty and prosperity have with the current state of the union.

2) Show specific examples of how Trump is a fascist.

3) How would you characterize a US POTUS candidate and his followers who would advocate intervening in Syria's internal affairs, partitioning it and exiling its president? Has Syria attacked the US? What clear and present danger does Syria pose for the people of the US?

So while there may be some true "white supremacists" in the mix, I'm leaning towards a lot of these people being intellectual neoreactionaries donning the cloak of stormfronters in order to further the neoreactionary agenda.

Straight up. Are you are calling me a white supremacist and stormfronter? I'll flag your comment and ask the mods to reign in your name-calling in order to maintain some degree of professionalism and decorum on RPF as we continue to discuss a way forward for liberty and prosperity.

I don't know what a neoreactionary is, so maybe you can clarify that.

But we should see this as a good thing here at RPF. Obviously the true liberty supporters here aren't going to simply fold to this BS. I know I'm not. So we should see this as an opportunity to voice the true message in the midst of this amoral claptrap that these nihilists and false intellectuals are trying to push that originated mostly from the LSD rotted brain of Curtis Yarvin.

Think of destroying their pathetic arguments and philosophical positions as exercise.

Better than being bored, am I right?

Can't wait to read the 'true message' of the 'true liberty supporters' you allude to above.

But it is troubling to see you attempting to incite a forum gang attack upon a few of us with whom you disagree. Can't you destroy these arguments on your own? If you would stick with destroying these arguments and philosophical positions by using logic, informed opinion and documenting actual examples, then you would be on firm ground. But your post in this particular matter is nothing but insults, accusations, name-calling and a call to forum gang incitement.

 

[David Sadler]

... Do the actual issues not matter at all? Does it not matter that Trump is a big government authoritarian fascist?

Showing some examples to justify your claims would give more legitimacy to your criticism of Trump. Otherwise, it comes off as demagoguery.

Maybe start some threads where examples posted by Trump opponents could be accumulated by subject.

Examples:
TRUMP: examples of big government tendencies
TRUMP: examples of authoritarian tendencies
TRUMP: examples of fascist tendencies

 

[erowe1]

Showing some examples to justify your claims would give more legitimacy to your criticism of Trump. Otherwise, it comes off as demagoguery.

Maybe start some threads where examples posted by Trump opponents could be accumulated by subject.

His bread and butter issue has been calling for more government intervention in immigration.

 

[Ronin Truth]

freedom to fascism

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en.....1ac.1.34.heirloom-hp..0.13.1847.Vy5BA0QRn7A

 

[Smitty]

His bread and butter issue has been calling for more government intervention in immigration.

That's a lot of people's bread and butter issue.

 

[AuH20]

His bread and butter issue has been calling for more government intervention in immigration.

I hope so. We can't cut services to them, thanks to corrupt justices. We're basically forced to maintain a protective border, since no one has the time or energy to conduct a deportation program.

 

[erowe1]

That's a lot of people's bread and butter issue.

They're statists.

 

[nikcers]

No way. Bush, Christie, Walker, Rubio, Fiorina & Kasich all grovel at the feet of the CoC and the big RNC donors. Carson, Cruz & Rand are the only candidates more independently conservative than Trump.

So when he was turned down a request to allow Trump to speak at an koch event, he gets mad and tweets that he doesn't wanna go. He asked and was rejected.

 

[Smitty]

They're statists.

Or maybe health enthusiasts.

http://www.independentlivingnews.co...ted-by-third-world-diseases.stml#.Vb-xfZXbK74

 

[nikcers]

Showing some examples to justify your claims would give more legitimacy to your criticism of Trump. Otherwise, it comes off as demagoguery.

Maybe start some threads where examples posted by Trump opponents could be accumulated by subject.

Examples:
TRUMP: examples of big government tendencies
TRUMP: examples of authoritarian tendencies
TRUMP: examples of fascist tendencies

Give me some examples of his actual policies? The only policy i know for certain is he wants free healthcare for all.

Populist support isn’t what fuels Trump. He mostly feeds off of us, the media. And we oblige him.
http://www.nationaljournal.com/magazine/donald-trump-2016-trumping-20150731

 

[David Sadler]

Sure, but people who claim to be within the liberty movement shouldn't think the same way that most Americans do. A candidate's stance on the issues should be more important to us than whether or not they're anti establishment.

Movements, like pornography and conflicts of interest, are hard to define, but you know them when you see them.

It's difficult to see a 'liberty movement' on the political scene today. It's more like a 'liberty scramble' where everyone is either looking for a movement to attach themselves to or where a few claim to represent 'the movement' where none actually exists. The Ron Paul liberty inspired movement fractured during the last couple of months of Ron's last POTUS run.

As one example, it's doubtful that many in the Oath Keepers organization would be seen by the fundamentalist libertarians as belonging to the 'liberty movement,' but within the Oath Keepers; they see themselves as one of the vanguards for protecting liberty.

There are a select few on the RPF that claim the title and mantle of being the surviving members of the authentic 'liberty movement.' This is a sad situation, because it's divorced from reality. It's even laughable that a few people on the RPF think they are 'the liberty movement' or that they represent 'the liberty movement.'

All hands are needed on deck if our individual and collective liberty and prosperity are going to be defended and allowed to grow in the years ahead. It will take a leader of national stature and/or an event of a very serious nature to begin to rebuild the liberty movement and get everyone moving in the same direction behind one candidate. Until then, the scramble is on.

 

[wizardwatson]

How is this approach of yours when addressing me, as you have in your post, not being as 'asshole?'

Well, "Davey" was my nickname as a child. Well, still is to some of my realatives. I was kind of being playful in that we both have the same first name. Assuming that is actually your name. But I didn't really like that name, so yes, it was kind of a jab. I guess I didn't realize your threshhold for "asshole" would be so low. But I was only telling you to pay attention to the remainder of my post. It wasn't to you specifically, except for the jab and the pay attention part.

The reason I singled you out is because you got confrontational with erowe1 over the Stormfront troll accusation. You became indignant and jumped to the defense even though erowe1 wasn't specifically talking to you. Of course, maybe you two have a history I'm unaware of. But in this thread you seem to be a tad angry and on the opposite side of me and already confrontational so I was just jumping into the ring for some friendly fisticuffs.

1) The US already operates as a combination of government and corporate power so how is the US not already fascist in your opinion? This is one of the issues people who are seeking to defend and maximize liberty and prosperity have with the current state of the union.

Wiz: Uh, what's your point? Seems you're saying that "fascism is what we have, let's work with it". Nowhere here do you highlight a philosophical problem with fascism.

2) Show specific examples of how Trump is a fascist.

Wiz: The words say "fascist candidate". By that I mean, the candidate most supported by fascists. The Jeffrey Tucker article I quoted of erowe1's provides sufficient evidence to your question though.

3) How would you characterize a US POTUS candidate and his followers who would advocate intervening in Syria's internal affairs, partitioning it and exiling its president? Has Syria attacked the US? What clear and present danger does Syria pose for the people of the US?

Wiz: Like your ignorance concerning the neoreactionary movement, I'll have to brief myself on the situation to answer that.

Straight up. Are you are calling me a white supremacist and stormfronter? I'll flag your comment and ask the mods to reign in your name-calling in order to maintain some degree of professionalism and decorum on RPF as we continue to discuss a way forward for liberty and prosperity.

I don't know what a neoreactionary is, so maybe you can clarify that.

I just called you "Davey". Maybe settle down on the trigger finger. Now, that I know you are ultra-paranoid about who is speaking "at you" I'll make sure any time I address you it will be directly under words you've posted. And why do you keep talking about "prosperity"? Liberty is far more important, hence why we pledge our "lives and sacred treasures" for it. You can't serve two masters.

Can't wait to read the 'true message' of the 'true liberty supporters' you allude to above.

But it is troubling to see you attempting to incite a forum gang attack upon a few of us with whom you disagree. Can't you destroy these arguments on your own? If you would stick with destroying these arguments and philosophical positions by using logic, informed opinion and documenting actual examples, then you would be on firm ground.

I'm simply encouraging people to stand up for the message of liberty that this movement and forum was founded on.

I don't need a gang. I'm perfectly capable of disagreeing with everyone all by myself. I'm not exactly Mr. Popular around here.

But your post in this particular matter is nothing but insults, accusations, name-calling and a call to forum gang incitement.

I do like this particular ending line. It's so forceful and "absolute". I "WISH" I had the power to form a gang here. Not that I would, but it would be nice to have that level of credibility. No, lately I've just been wandering around exposing people who pretend to be leaders and "doers" and "visionaries" as the anti-liberty frauds they are. Doesn't take me very long usually. They use the same words as we do "liberty", "freedom", etc. So to a novice some of them are hard to spot.

I don't think I'm terribly insulting, or a rabid name-caller. But everyone keeps telling me that I shouldn't be afraid of offending people. I thought it was in style?

Anyway, Trump is the candidate of fascists was my point. And your reverse psychology tactic of playing the victim here is pretty transparent to me, just FYI. No one is ganging up. We are individuals. But some of us have taken notice that there's been an upsurge in fascist mentality on the forums this past year.

And if you "can't wait" to here the "true message", stick around, eventually it might sink in. God willing.

 

[wizardwatson]

Actually, you're the remnant of the remnant.

The vast majority of the remnant washed their hands of politics immediately upon hearing that Rand endorsed Romney.

Sounds like you don't understand the remnant. The remnant was never really into politics. Ron Paul was a servant of the remnant. Rand Paul is less so.

If the remnant is less united, certainly there are ways to reverse that. But supporting Trump, who is far worse than Rand in my estimation, will only scatter the remnant in this movement even more. If you were sincere, I would think you would understand that.