Is Bernie Sanders's message more popular than Ron Paul's?

[fr33]

My taxes will increase if Bernie gets his way. It's a shame that we live in a place that thieves like Bernie can run for president while people like me will be stolen from. I'd rather live in a place where I can kill people like Bernie for trying to steal from me. It's really a shame that a few people on this forum never understood liberty after being a member here for many years.

 

[RJ Liberty]

My taxes will increase if Bernie gets his way.

You are making more than $250,000 per year, fr33? I'm just curious because I haven't run into many millionaires on the internet. Aside from rich Nigerian princes, that is.

 

[ShaneEnochs]

My taxes will increase if Bernie gets his way. It's a shame that we live in a place that thieves like Bernie can run for president while people like me will be stolen from. I'd rather live in a place where I can kill people like Bernie for trying to steal from me. It's really a shame that a few people on this forum never understood liberty after being a member here for many years.

I'll make $106,000 this year. I currently pay right at $80/week for medical. My medical deductible is $5,000. Not great, but not terrible. So that comes out to $9,160 a year assuming that I pay the full deductible, which I probably will. That's not including my co-pays or anything.

With an increase in my taxes by 2.2% for his healthcare plan, that'll be an extra $2,332 a year, or about $45 a week, out of my paycheck. After that, I get healthcare with no premium, no deductible, and no co-pay. So my taxes would increase, but over the course of the year I'll save $6,828. That ain't bad.

 

[fr33]

You are making more than $250,000 per year, fr33? I'm just curious because I haven't run into many millionaires on the internet. Aside from rich Nigerian princes, that is.

I am definitely not a millionaire myself. But I am self employed and am president of my own corporation that is worth 8 digits. We do not always make money. There have been years where we lost money. We employ 7 people. They work hard but don't even compare to what us partner owners do. Things are a bit different when you compare family farms to other large businesses or corporations. Our earnings and investments are far grander than what we take home as a salary. Bernie's plans, if he succeeds, would ensure that we would have to cut back and fire employees. It's even worse for other small businesses that are worth 200 grand or more.

 

[ShaneEnochs]

I am definitely not a millionaire myself. But I am self employed and am president of my own corporation that is worth 8 digits. We do not always make money. There have been years where we lost money. We employ 7 people. They work hard but don't even compare to what us partner owners do. Things are a bit different when you compare family farms to other large businesses or corporations. Our earnings and investments are far grander than what we take home as a salary. Bernie's plans, if he succeeds, would ensure that we would have to cut back and fire employees. It's even worse for other small businesses that are worth 200 grand or more.

As far as I'm aware, Bernie hasn't released any specifics on what corporate taxes would be under his plan, besides the 6.2% tax for healthcare. In most instances, that would actually save corporations quite a bit of money if they're currently providing health insurance to their employees.

 

[fr33]

Can I get a "free" college "education" too? I've never had any use for one, but since Bernie wants to hand them out.... I'm sure the guys from the tire shop that we hire to change tractor flats will want that degree as well. Does that mean we'll have to pay more for tire shop employees? Or are we expected to bring in 3rd world immigrants to wipe our asses? Before WW1 an American could raise a large family and never go to college on such a wage.

People like Bernie Sanders are not a solution to the economy. He's part of the problem.

He was shit with his own money and he'd be shit with yours. For 3 decades Bernie earned 6 digits every year. Today his net worth is 500k.

 

[ShaneEnochs]

Can I get a "free" college "education" too? I've never had any use for one, but since Bernie wants to hand them out.... I'm sure the guys from the tire shop that we hire to change tractor flats will want that degree as well. Does that mean we'll have to pay more for tire shop employees? Or are we expected to bring in 3rd world immigrants to wipe our asses? Before WW1 an American could raise a large family and never go to college on such a wage.

I honestly don't know where you're going with this. Not everyone has to have a college education. Skilled labor is still an important part of our economy. I don't know why you would assume you'd have to pay more money for tire shop employees, since a fuck load of coffee house people have college degrees.

People like Bernie Sanders are not a solution to the economy. He's part of the problem.

He was shit with his own money and he'd be shit with yours. For 3 decades Bernie earned 6 digits every year. Today his net worth is 500k.

That $500k number is an estimate and doesn't take into account any assets that his wife may have. Given how he diversifies his money in mutual funds that performed pretty closely to the S&P, cost of living, and how much he donated to charity, best case scenario is that he should be worth a smidgen over a million dollars. I mean I can see where you're coming from, and I guess it's a valid line of attack, but his personal finances aren't as important to many people as they may be to you.

 

[fr33]

Not everyone has to have a college education.

No shit. What is Bernie's plan to keep us heathens from getting our "free" college education?

Skilled labor is still an important part of our economy. I don't know why you would assume you'd have to pay more money for tire shop employees, since a fuck load of coffee house people have college degrees.

That's probably because you are so retarded that you don't realize that those coffee shop employees think they should be paid as much as the business owner.

 

[RJ Liberty]

I am definitely not a millionaire myself. But I am self employed and am president of my own corporation that is worth 8 digits. We do not always make money. There have been years where we lost money. We employ 7 people. They work hard but don't even compare to what us partner owners do. Things are a bit different when you compare family farms to other large businesses or corporations. Our earnings and investments are far grander than what we take home as a salary. Bernie's plans, if he succeeds, would ensure that we would have to cut back and fire employees. It's even worse for other small businesses that are worth 200 grand or more.

Thanks for the honest reply, fr33. There are two things about your reply that stick out to me: "We employ 7 people. They work hard but don't even compare to what us partner owners do." fr33, I've worked for too many employers who took for granted what their employees did for the company, and developed an attitude of I work harder than anyone because I own the company, and am thus motivated to make it succeed. I even had an employer who came in late to work nearly every day, was yet first out the door, took long lunch breaks, and even took classes while at work, and still had developed that "I'm the owner, I work harder" attitude. Now, obviously, I don't know your situation, so I'll leave my comment at that.

The other comment: "It's even worse for other small businesses that are worth 200 grand or more." To be honest, I don't believe a business worth $200,000 or more is a "small business", despite federal guidelines that clearly state otherwise.

Sanders' corporate tax plan is outlined here, and it's hard to imagine which category your business falls into, which would cause your corporate taxes to go up: I very much doubt fr33 Incorporated is claiming to be an overseas company, I doubt you're stashing money in the Caiman Islands, and I doubt you're running a coal or oil company that has only seven employees. Sanders' plan calls for an exemption of anything below $3.5 million on the estate tax, and you've already said you don't make $3.5 million per year, so that's not it. I doubt your company does Wall Street speculation (because the comment about "working hard" wouldn't really make sense). Without intruding too much (and feel free to ignore this question if it's too intrusive), how would your company's taxes go up based on Sanders' proposal?

 

[ShaneEnochs]

No shit. What is Bernie's plan to keep us heathens from getting our "free" college education?

I don't understand what you're saying. Under his plan, if you applied and were accepted at a public college, you'd be able to go tuition free. There'd be no extra barriers than there are right now.

That's probably because you are so retarded that you don't realize that those coffee shop employees think they should be paid as much as the business owner.

Well, I pride myself on being a stupid person, of course. Even so, just because someone thinks they should be paid as much as a business owner doesn't mean that they are. So your point is moot in this case.

 

[P3ter_Griffin]

What do you mean? Sanders won by 22.2%. It was a blow out. He got 15 delegates to Hillary's 9. The media keeps pushing this narrative that Hillary got 15 as well, but they're counting superdelegates which is absurd because they're not in any way pledged. Hillary had way more than Obama did at this point in the race in 08 but when it became apparent who would win, they all switched sides. Now, admittedly Hillary's lead in superdelegates is greater now than it was in 08, but the results will be the same if it becomes clear that Hillary can't mathematically win. The DNC isn't going to risk alienating an enormous amount of independent voters who have declared (myself included) that if she wins because of superdelegate trickery that they will switch sides to Trump.

8 years later I'm sure you can see now why the establishment was okay with Obama winning. We will obviously have to wait to see what happens, and to know even if Hillary and the establishment will need to look at such a route. But if Bernie truly isn't an establishment horse I don't think they'd care if they lessoned their chances by alienating Bernie supporters. They would have 0 chance of winning if they didn't.

 

[idiom]

Nobodies taxes would fucking increase.

Nobody has ever successfully extracted more than 20% of GDP from the USA.

I don't understand what you're saying. Under his plan, if you applied and were accepted at a public college, you'd be able to go tuition free.

Unfortunately his plan doesn't do anything to reduce the actual cost. So lecturers would still be taking home 6 figs per lecture, just now they can give an infinite number of lectures.

 

[misterx]

I honestly don't know where you're going with this. Not everyone has to have a college education. Skilled labor is still an important part of our economy. I don't know why you would assume you'd have to pay more money for tire shop employees, since a fuck load of coffee house people have college degrees.

Exactly! Why should the government steal money from me to put other people through four years of college just so they can pour coffee for a living? I'm pretty sure they could learn to do that without wasting tens of thousands of other people's dollars.

 

[ShaneEnochs]

Exactly! Why should the government steal money from me to put other people through four years of college just so they can pour coffee for a living? I'm pretty sure they could learn to do that without wasting tens of thousands of other people's dollars.

Alright, but that's already happening. Student loans come from the government and are currently standing at over a trillion dollars.

 

[misterx]

Alright, but that's already happening. Student loans come from the government and are currently standing at over a trillion dollars.

So you'd like to add to the problem? And those are loans, not grants. The taxpayers won't be on the hook for it unless Sanders wins.

 

[ShaneEnochs]

So you'd like to add to the problem? And those are loans, not grants. The taxpayers won't be on the hook for it unless Sanders wins.

What exactly do you think happens when a student defaults on their loan debt?

 

[misterx]

What exactly do you think happens when a student defaults on their loan debt?

Come on.. you're smarter than that. The same thing that happens when someone defaults on any other loan. Or are loans not a profitable business in liberal lala land?

 

[ShaneEnochs]

Come on.. you're smarter than that. The same thing that happens when someone defaults on any other loan. Or are loans not a profitable business in liberal lala land?

When you default on a loan, the creditor writes it off as a loss and the government compensates. I don't think the government can write off losses like that. Tax payers are still on the hook.

 

[VIDEODROME]

These days, students can get income based repayment plans. If you're only working a part-time job while living with your parents or friends, you have a virtual zero payment.

 

[misterx]

When you default on a loan, the creditor writes it off as a loss and the government compensates. I don't think the government can write off losses like that. Tax payers are still on the hook.

Let me explain how business works to you. Lenders make a profit on every loan. Most people don't default on their loans, therefore they make enough profit on the performing loans to cover the losses on non-performing loans. Furthermore, when someone defaults on a sizable amount, creditors obtain a judgement against the debtor and seize his assets to cover the loan. The government has even more authority than private lenders to collect. They are actually arresting people who default:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...ls-Being-Deployed-for-Delinquent-Student-Debt