IOWA: Rand Paul is GOP's best candidate for 2016

If she were to be elected, she would be the 2nd oldest president in history at her inauguration, Reagan being the oldest, of course, at nearly 70. She would be 69. We all know how the electorate responds to an aging candidate, and it's not with enthusiasm.
 
JCDenton0451 said:
I was not asking who of them is more intelligent/articulate. I'm talking about the substance of his views on abortion. Face it, no difference on substance there.
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The difference is: he doesn't believe and would never utter a theory that pregnancies are shut down by rape.

That's what got Akin into trouble and caused a storm. His stupid spouting of a stupid theory.

If it wasn't for that you wouldnt even know who Akin was

Rand is a superior candidate in every way.

Their views on taxes, spending etc. might not be too far apart either but Rand is more articulate and deft at explaining it than a moron like Akin.
 
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Mourdock didn't have a stupid theory and he got similarly trashed, when he said that pregnancies from rape are something that God intented to happen (BTW, many on this forum see nothing wrong with this statement!). There is no getting around the fact that absolutist pro-life position is very unpopular: 80% of Americans support abortion in cases of rape. If this is Rand Paul's position he will be in damage control mode with women and moderates the moment he wins the nomination.

P.S: Warlord, don't take it personal, all right?
 
JCDenton0451 said:
Mourdock didn't have a stupid theory and he got similarly trashed, when he said that pregnancies from rape are something that God intented to happen (BTW, many on this forum see nothing wrong with this statement!). There is no getting around the fact that absolutist pro-life position is very unpopular: 80% of Americans support abortion in cases of rape. If this is Rand Paul's position he will be in damage control mode with women and moderates the moment he wins the nomination.

P.S: Warlord, don't take it personal, all right?
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Mourdock is also a stupid moron. Rand is a lot more polished, slick and smarter than those two losers.
 
JCDenton0451 said:
Well, Romney did his share of pandering to the Evangelicals. He wanted to ban abortion with exceptions for rape and incest. And he said he would like to overturn Roe v. Wade.

'The War on Women' meme was a big part of his defeat.

You must realise that most women, especially educated ones, don't want their lady parts regulated by the government.
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RON PAUL didn't want abortion to be legal either. Just saying. And neither do I, for that matter. In fact, I will say that abortion should be punished exactly the same as murder, because that's what it is.

At the same time, the FEDERAL government has no business here, it is a state level issue according to our constitution.

JCDenton0451 said:
Just because you find something to be disgusting or unethical doesn't mean it should be illegal. Those who want abortion completely banned are almost always motivated by religion. This fraction of the electorate is already fully engaged with GOP. There is nothing to be gained by moving further to the right. But Rand Paul's position is even more extreme than Romney: no abortion for Rape victims. That would make it even harder for Rand to connect with the average female voter.
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I'm motivated by the non-aggression principle in this case. Murdering children in the womb is a destruction of their rights.


Attack Rand on something he's actually incorrect about, please...
 
Valid criticism is not what you're doing. That would be something closer to what TC is engaging in. You are trolling.

JCDenton0451 said:
Well, what is the difference between Todd Akin and Rand Paul on abortion? This is a valid question. And it will come up in 2016 election. If you think he can just slip his pro-life stance under the radar, you haven't followed 2012 campaign. The media will make sure the public knows that Rand Paul wants women who have been raped to carry their rapist's babies to term.

Shutting down valid criticism isn't going to make your campaign stronger. It will only make this place look like an echo chamber.
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Keep in mind Mourdock's opponent was pro-life. So was Horning the libertarian. They just didn't use dumb rhetoric.
 
Since I assume politicians are guilty until proven innocent, I have no doubt that Akin sucked. However, anyone who didn't vote for him solely because of the gaffe is ridiculous.
 
Warlord said:
He won't need to because he wont say something stupid like Mourdock. He's too smart for it.
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Do you understand that there are prenty of people outside the GOP base who find absolutist pro-life position UNACCEPTABLE (and disqualifying from any top office)? When you spend so much time with conservative grassroots you can lose the perspective.

I'm not even talking about how social-conservatism undercuts the message of liberty...
 
If you're so anti-Rand FF, why are you hanging out in his subforum?

I wish the mods would do something about you.

You even have an anti-Rand sig. Warlord is sure this is against the rules but that's up to Josh/Bryan I guess.
 
JCDenton0451 said:
Do you understand that there are prenty of people outside the GOP base who find absolutist pro-life position UNACCEPTABLE (and disqualifying from any top office)?
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Please, most people don't believe that a politician's position on the abortion issue diqualifies him or her from holding office. (Regardless of what that position is)
 
JCDenton0451 said:
Do you understand that there are prenty of people outside the GOP base who find absolutist pro-life position UNACCEPTABLE (and disqualifying from any top office)? When you spend so much time with conservative grassroots you can lose the perspective.

I'm not even talking about how social-conservatism undercuts the message of liberty...
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I dont think it's that damaging. Warlord has worried about this in the past with his cousin and we've had debates about how it might hurt him usually involving excellent posts from a member called JMDrake who is enlightened on this issue and is somewhat of the forum expert on abortion matters.

I've concluded that issues like jobs and economic issues are where the elections will be decicided and that if you're a superior candidate you can overcome any negative aspects from having an absolutist position on abortion i.e Cooch in VA will do great. Rand has done great and the polls look ok (see original post). Sanford did fine despite massive scandals and spending against him because he's a superior candidate who outworks and outcampaigns opponents and is confident and strident in his positions. It's amazing what you can get a pass on if you have the likability factor.
 
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JCDenton0451 said:
Well, what is the difference between Todd Akin and Rand Paul on abortion? This is a valid question. And it will come up in 2016 election. If you think he can just slip his pro-life stance under the radar, you haven't followed 2012 campaign. The media will make sure the public knows that Rand Paul wants women who have been raped to carry their rapist's babies to term.

Shutting down valid criticism isn't going to make your campaign stronger. It will only make this place look like an echo chamber.
Click to expand...


That wasn't the problem with Akin it was the idea that if you were really raped you wouldn't get pregnant, implying raped pregnant women were lying about being raped that made what Akin said so objectionable.
 
JCDenton0451 said:
Do you understand that there are prenty of people outside the GOP base who find absolutist pro-life position UNACCEPTABLE (and disqualifying from any top office)? When you spend so much time with conservative grassroots you can lose the perspective.

I'm not even talking about how social-conservatism undercuts the message of liberty...
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There are also a lot of people who think you can't protect liberty if you don't protect life. Whether libertarian, progressive, conservative or whatever, it depends on when you think life begins. Rand has his opinion of when that is and some will disagree. Some will disagree with you however.

I will say that in my experience pro lifers are more likely to be single issue voters on this point than those who don't think life begins at conception. Your mileage may differ.
 
BTW 'health of the mother' is one hell of a loophole. It effectively allows abortion on demand. That way you can get smart pro-choice people to vote for you, while still getting the support of the naive pro-lifers, who actually think you're against abortion.

The bottomline is Democrats are the Smart party. Evil, but damn smart.
 
JCDenton0451 said:
BTW 'health of the mother' is one hell of a loophole. It effectively allows abortion on demand. That way you can get smart pro-choice people to vote for you, while still getting the support of the naive pro-lifers, who actually think you're against abortion.

The bottomline is Democrats are the Smart party. Evil, but damn smart.
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When it comes down to it people vote on jobs. economy, obamacare. No where does abortion feature unless a moron opens their mouth and puts people off i.e Akin and Mourdock. All a pro-life GOP politician needs to do is SHUT UP.

"I'm pro-life." that's all you say and that's as far as you go. If a journalist asks questions CHANGE THE SUBJECT.

"Well this election is really about jobs and the economy and I believe... "
 
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