I have to wonder, why we are the minority??

Not exactly

But liberty for the sake of liberty is no better than slavery; and, equality for the sake of equality is no better than inequality. The goal of our Founding Fathers was to establish the Civil Purpose of the people above the legal precedence of tyranny. Our Civil Purpose established grounds for our divorce from tyranny in The Declaration of Independence just as it established grounds for our new marriage to a "more perfect government" (necessary tyranny) in The U.S. Constitution.

Liberty is necessary for a healthy individual and for society to develop. Thus, seeking liberty for its own sake is a virtue in that it benefits the human condition. I also haven't seen sufficient evidence to be convinced there is such thing as "necessary tyranny". Sorry for the short post, but I gotta run. ttyl. :cool:
 
The Freeth Will not set you True. For such is emotional madness.

Liberty is necessary for a healthy individual and for society to develop. Thus, seeking liberty for its own sake is a virtue in that it benefits the human condition. I also haven't seen sufficient evidence to be convinced there is such thing as "necessary tyranny". Sorry for the short post, but I gotta run. ttyl. :cool:

Having liberty as a prerequisite is far more certain than having it as a goal. Same as with having equality as a prerequisite. But the focus is on the people's Civil Purpose. A more perfect government implies that the best it can be is corrupt while it does have the potential to forever improve. So, this establishes a necessary tyranny to serve the people.
 
Anyone shed some light on the reasons why?

A few theories I have come up with:

- Television and newspapers do not promote logical debate. The intelligent and aware libertyfolk can open any newspaper or magazine, or turn on about any show on TV, and see that whatever is being debated is not focusing on the real issue at hand. Society is permeated with moved goalposts.

When should we bomb Iran? instead of, What are the moral and practical implications of pre-emptive war?

How much and what kind of welfare? instead of, Does welfare help?

- By and large, smarter people talk less (the wisdom of conservatism). It has been said that the quietest in the room is often the smartest. Morons like to hear their own voice, and often use brute force volume to be heard. This is the personality type that becomes a news anchor, politician, editorial writer, or paid 'expert' on TV. As a result, we hear more of the idiots than we do the wise.

- Resources. When a few smart people learned to fool the masses and take over governments for personal gain, and some other smart people learned to manipulate the language with names like 'the patriot act', much power became centralized, and those in power have the means to access unlimited resources to stay in power (federal reserve, for instance.) Like in chess, you can play perfect, but if pawns are all you have left, the other guy can make all manner of mistakes and still pull out a victory. The Internet is the potential gamechanger here.

- Education. 'Get em while their young.' Curriculum mandates and false-history textbooks have controlled the flow of education. Thank you, Wikipedia.

- Branding. I don't think people are stupid in general (look at Korea's children), but I do think we are extremely uneducated in America. As a result, many think in bite-sized chunks. Neo-con-artists have become experts at speaking in these terms. 'Get em over there before they get us over here,' 'You're with us or you're against us,' and 'Right-Wing extremists' are a few examples.

- Illusion of choice / false dilemma / false dichotomy / two party system - it is long bred into folks that there are but two options, like colors on a flag, or a favorite football team, to root for.

- Idiots are more likely to vote. Many intelligent people realize they don't have enough information to make an informed decision, and choose not to vote. At the same time, idiots everywhere are voting because it is their 'duty', even when they don't know anything about the candidates or what they represent.

- Smarter people are less likely to take a solicitation call from a pollster. People who need friends badly or don't know what caller ID is are more likely to answer the phone when Frank Luntz comes calling.
 
some people prefer to pursue the coercive and exploitative organized “political means" to wealth
 
its very simple.

in the sheep mind, the "authority" behind an idea or personality makes more of an impression than the logic or merit of an idea or individual.

If I were to build a car tomorrow that is superior to a Benz in both price and cost, no one would buy it because no one has even heard of me. Only when Car and Driver review my car will the sheep start to beleive me.

its human nature. He who controls the hype machine (media) owns the sheep. The sheep will eat media approved crap sandwiches instead of the "extremist" steak we offer.
 
Public education.
If we could eliminate just the laws dealing with public schools - not even the schools themselves, just the laws - we could have our country back in 20 years.
If we got rid of the schools too, it would be more like 10.

Are private school kids supporting Ron Paul in large numbers?
 
its very simple.

in the sheep mind, the "authority" behind an idea or personality makes more of an impression than the logic or merit of an idea or individual.

If I were to build a car tomorrow that is superior to a Benz in both price and cost, no one would buy it because no one has even heard of me. Only when Car and Driver review my car will the sheep start to beleive me.

its human nature. He who controls the hype machine (media) owns the sheep. The sheep will eat media approved crap sandwiches instead of the "extremist" steak we offer.

Well we could stop calling them sheep for one. But it also isn't true. Many movies that are given glowing reviews make very little money, while many movies that are panned make tons of money.
 
People today want to be taken care of...not care for themselves. And the rest can be tricked into giving up their freedoms without even knowing it. Others were brought up believing forced charity is a good thing.
 
Why is it that freedom loving people, who hold the Constitution in high regard are in reality the minority??

You would think that these candidates like Medina and so on, would be be pulling 30% at least!

And I'm not talking just about her.. I'm talking about in general.. Ron Paul supporters are what, 10% of the population at the most?

I just dont get it... why dont people embrace the idea of personal liberty and endorse those who do? I just can't wrap my mind around the fact that the majority of people dont support the ideology of freedom.

Anyone shed some light on the reasons why?

I really think we are beginning to turn a corner on this. A wild ride ahead.
 
We may be the minority in voters but I think if you look at the big issues the majority of Americans would agree with us. Chris Rock once said that there are really only two issues that matter: 1. National security and 2. The economy. He was using it to praise Bill Clinton but that's irrelevant, I agree that those are the issues the people care about it when it comes to government. Ron Paul is very strong on those two issues as long as we keep it simple.

1. National Security - keep a strong military but also keep us out of foreign entanglements. We're not anti-war and we'll protect ourselves if/when we are attacked. But we don't want to but into every conflict around the globe and we are not out looking for enemies. Mind our business and we get involved only if they threaten us.

2. Economy - aside from saving money from all these dumb wars, we limit government, support free markets and lower taxes.

That's it. It makes a lot of sense. It's easy to understand and hard to argue with. If we could keep it simple and stay on message I think we'd have a really good shot.
 
apathy. People vote for one or the other party based on nebulous associations, and figure anything else is a wasted vote or a vote in effect for the other side (amazing how many times we've argued that here). They also for the most part don't understand the impact the govt has on their daily lives. Nothing much in their immediate surroundings change from one election to the next, so why be bothered about it too much.

fear of being the first to stand alone or separate from one's own normative social milieu. Inertia to stay within the status quo, be a team player, and not be a boat-rocker is high. Imagine after decades of surrounding oneself with a network of like-minded folk, to jump out of that.

Fear of what a change in the status quo might mean to their individual comfort.

Cynicism. People were idealists, then, after one or two defeats, gave up and got back in line, not believing the Leviathan could ever be stopped.

Education's been said already, but bears repeating. Not understanding how the principles and philosophies play themselves out in society is huge.
 
Unfortunately Americans are going to understand the issues the hard way.

Consider the issue of military combatants. Nobody talks about the fact that the president can declare an AMERICAN CITIZEN enemy combatant and he can be assassinated without a trial. No politician talks about it, except Ron Paul. He mentions that if we have an economic breakdown, those of us who talk about what the government is going to do to us might be declared enemy combatants. But Americans don't care about Habeas Corpus. I bet most don't even know what that is.

Guys, people are going to wake up. Bernanke has no exit strategy. Expect the dollar and the economy to tank, and expert hyperinflation. After that expect a police state, and then expect terror. Unfortunately that's what it will take for people to wake up, but they are going to wake up.
 
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If we are the minority then we must be at Eric Cartman's waterpark.
 
Lots of great responses... all very valid. Especially the public education problem. BUT, I have to ask, how many are products of public education? I am.. granted I woke up in 08 due to RP, but still. I think the problem is parents as well.. parents need to take part in educating their kids.

I think its very simple. To be a lover of liberty you have to be willing to actually think for yourself a little. We live in a society where everything is prepackaged how we like it from our cereal to our news to our political parties. Everything is kept simple and quick so folks can identify, put themselves in the appropriate box and then regurgitate verbatim what is fed to them.

No thought and very little effort is required and that is how our dumbed down populace like it. When i first started working in politics people told me in an election year you dont want to do to much until after labor day as most folks attention span is very short. I scoffed and thought that was nonsense. Turns out it is mostly true :)

100% correct... Fast Food politics and information, made to order. That is America.
 
I just dont get it... why dont people embrace the idea of personal liberty and endorse those who do? I just can't wrap my mind around the fact that the majority of people dont support the ideology of freedom.

Anyone shed some light on the reasons why?

I don't know that anyone doesn't embrace the idea of personal liberty (for themselves) but there's plenty of people who embrace the idea of profiting from taking away others' liberty.
 
I think the stats are probably about 75% want freedom, vs 25% want prefer tyrrany. The parameters for discourse are set by the establishment, through the media and educational institutions. The establishment is selling tyrrany, but they disguise it as security.

Without their control of information, they would be overthrown in a heartbeat. The schools teach at a young age, how NOT to think critically and to accept statism.

Just look at how well we are represented on the internet. It is much better than the "real world". Why? It is because they don't have full control of the information on the interent yet.

People are generally gullible, and will continue to be swooned by repackaged propaganda that has been selling for thousands of years. Man's weakness is as predictable as the sun rising, so it takes very little to manipulate the masses.
 
because people now are so dependent on government handouts.

my grandfather banked his social security, and lived only on his company pension. no one does that today.
until the 70s/early 80s parents expected to pay for college.

now people are dependent on student loans, medicare, and soon obamacare.
 
Its simple: when you have 40 plus million geratrics on SS/medicare, with another 30 million parasites on welfare its no wonder we are a minority. Why work when you get something for nothing?
 
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