I don't believe in Jesus Christ

[Brett85]

I am simply going to have to politely disagree with you.

That's more than I can do with him. Lol.

 

[Christian Liberty]

Sola, with all due respect....... I investigated Calvinism thoroughly. Why? Because I wondered if I was one! I have a sister in law that is a Calvinist. Her and I would talk and she would use the term,..... and I honestly did not know what it meant. There were a few posts here from 2011 with me trying to understand what it meant. I learned. I looked it up..... and with an open mind also. I was not for or against it when I was researching. But,...... after my research, I am fully in disagreement with the doctrine. Although I do believe we agree on a couple of points. No works and Eternal security.

Quite honestly, and I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but I do not believe you in what you say here. There's no way you looked at this issue with an open mind, looked at Romans 8, Romans 9, John 6, John 10, Isaiah 10, 1 Corinthians 1, and Ephesians 1, and somehow came away with the idea that the Bible taught Arminianism. There was a time when I tried to argue Arminianism from scripture and it was an absolute failure every time, because the Bible doesn't teach it. And... if the only Calvinistic doctrine you agree with is eternal security (Which is itself really an Arminian version of the Calvinistic Perseverance of the Saints) than you are definitely an Arminian. I don't really care about the labels so much, I'd say that Sola definitely holds to Calvinistic theology regardless of the fact that he doesn't care for the term. Its not an insult either, its just an easy term to use to determine whether one believes in the five-points or not.

 

[lilymc]

Bingo! The water baptism is nothing more than an outward expression of our faith, just the same as doing anything in the flesh is. There's nothing wrong with doing it, but if one understood what the true meaning of "being born again" spiritually and the spiritual baptism, there would be no need for water baptism at all.

Water baptism is not a requirement for our salvation.

born of water = that which is born of flesh is flesh = (first) time in mother's womb

born of the Spirit = that which is born of the Spirit is spirit = born again

We are washed clean through the blood of Christ and not water.

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Sins are washed away calling on the name of the Lord and not by water baptism.

Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

We repent "for the remission of sins" to receive the forgiveness of sins. The blood of Jesus was shed for the forgiveness of sins to pay the price for our forgiveness.

Thanks, I'm glad I'm not alone on this! Titus 3:5 also comes to mind, which says that we are washed by the regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit.

God willing, I want to do a video on this topic. I think there are too many people who don't realize the necessity of being born again.

 

[Christian Liberty]

Logically inconsistent???? LOL!! I am so glad that your opinion of my salvation is really not what's important to me. LOL

I offered no judgment on your salvation. But, there is no way to consistently argue that Christ died for everyone without exception, and yet that Christ alone saved you. If Christ did the exact same thing for you as he did for someone who is roasting in Hell, why are you saved? What is the difference between you and that person? At best, its a logical inconsistency. But, I didn't say you weren't saved.

You're insane. Why do you bother to post here for the sole purpose of agitating people and condemning them? You really make the theology you promote a complete caricature.

Maybe because he believes the things he's posting and is concerned for your salvation?

 

[Sola_Fide]

Sola, with all due respect....... I investigated Calvinism thoroughly. Why? Because I wondered if I was one! I have a sister in law that is a Calvinist. Her and I would talk and she would use the term,..... and I honestly did not know what it meant. There were a few posts here from 2011 with me trying to understand what it meant. I learned. I looked it up..... and with an open mind also. I was not for or against it when I was researching. But,...... after my research, I am fully in disagreement with the doctrine. Although I do believe we agree on a couple of points. No works and Eternal security.

Annie,

With all due respect, I know Arminianism better than you do. I was asking for you to post his thesis so I could show you why it was wrong. I wanted to perhaps help you.

 

[Brett85]

Maybe because he believes the things he's posting and is concerned for your salvation?

You're never going to convert a single person by insulting them, condemning them, and having the kind of attitude that he has. He just comes here to agitate people, and it's starting to work. Maybe I should just ignore him from now on.

 

[VIDEODROME]

I'm wondering what good a law does if it's supposedly transcendant and he still steals your camera.


I guess I feel that it's wrong to steal my camera just because it's my property. But that is just a beginning idea that can be built upon. I can then say it would also be wrong for me to steal your camera.

I think you can build on this even further and say society would be better without camera theft.

 

[Miss Annie]

Quite honestly, and I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but I do not believe you in what you say here. There's no way you looked at this issue with an open mind, looked at Romans 8, Romans 9, John 6, John 10, Isaiah 10, 1 Corinthians 1, and Ephesians 1, and somehow came away with the idea that the Bible taught Arminianism. There was a time when I tried to argue Arminianism from scripture and it was an absolute failure every time, because the Bible doesn't teach it. And... if the only Calvinistic doctrine you agree with is eternal security (Which is itself really an Arminian version of the Calvinistic Perseverance of the Saints) than you are definitely an Arminian. I don't really care about the labels so much, I'd say that Sola definitely holds to Calvinistic theology regardless of the fact that he doesn't care for the term. Its not an insult either, its just an easy term to use to determine whether one believes in the five-points or not.

Just because I disagree with you means I didn't do my research? I am really sorry that you feel that way. I am NOT into labels...... or denominations either. All they do is cause division. I am not an Arminian, I am not a Calvinist, I am not a synergist or a mongerist. I am not a baptist, methodist, mormon, catholic, SDA, or anything else for that matter. I am a Christian!
This is where I bow out of these debates, when they turn into just veiled insults ( and the in your face ones.. LOL). Please understand that is not a good testimony for the love of Jesus.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

Are you KIDDING me??? John 12 is one of the most explicitly predestinarian chapters in the Bible.

It's not as simple as you make it out to be.

According to St John Chrysostom, Isaiah's prophecy does not mean God causes spiritual blindness in people who would otherwise have been faithful. This is a figure of speech common to Scripturerevealing God as giving people up to their own devces (as in Rom 1:24,26). What is meantby He has blinded is that God has permitted their self-chosen blindess (compare Ex 8:15,32 with Ex 10:20, 27). They did not become blind because God spoke through Isaiah, but rather Isaiah spoke because he foresaw their blindness.

This sort of thing is why you can't rely on yourself to interpret scripture properly (though reading scripture is important). Tradition is one way God keeps us from falling into error.

 

[VIDEODROME]

You're never going to convert a single person by insulting them, condemning them, and having the kind of attitude that he has. He just comes here to agitate people, and it's starting to work. Maybe I should just ignore him from now on.

I'm converting. I'm one of the elect now damnit.

 

[Christian Liberty]

You're never going to convert a single person by insulting them, condemning them, and having the kind of attitude that he has. He just comes here to agitate people, and it's starting to work. Maybe I should just ignore him from now on.

Well, I believe that God can use even a poorly shared proclamation of the gospel to convert people. At any rate, I'm not really sure what was so bad about what he said beyond the fact that I don't necessarily agree with it. I get why "You aren't a Christian" was taken as offensive because you saw it as a lie rather than a doctrinal statement, but I see no other way to take "synergists are not saved" except as a doctrinal statement. It may be harsh, but I don't think it was straight up mean. Then again, I'm usually not very sensetive so there's that. I'm also nowhere near a synergist so there's that.

Just because I disagree with you means I didn't do my research? I am really sorry that you feel that way. I am NOT into labels...... or denominations either. All they do is cause division. I am not an Arminian, I am not a Calvinist, I am not a synergist or a mongerist. I am not a baptist, methodist, mormon, catholic, SDA, or anything else for that matter. I am a Christian!
This is where I bow out of these debates, when they turn into just veiled insults ( and the in your face ones.. LOL). Please understand that is not a good testimony for the love of Jesus.

I'm not trying to insult you I just honestly don't understand how anyone could read the Bible and believe in free will or unlimited atonement. It just doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[lilymc]

I'm wondering what good a law does if it's supposedly transcendant and he still steals your camera.

If a person gets away with it in the short term, that doesn't mean they get away with it. He will still be held accountable to God for his actions... so he needs forgiveness just like everyone does.

I guess I feel that it's wrong to steal my camera just because it's my property. But that is just a beginning idea that can be built upon. I can then say it would also be wrong for me to steal your camera.

I think you can build on this even further and say society would be better without camera theft.

Right, but not everyone sees it that way. If morality is subjective, then your thought (which is reasonable) is no better than the opinion of the guy who says stealing is OK. Unless there is an objective moral standard that transcends the fallible minds of man, then no one opinion can be better than any other.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

I'm not trying to insult you I just honestly don't understand how anyone could read the Bible and believe in free will or unlimited atonement. It just doesn't make any sense to me.

Most of the bible doesn't make sense without historical and traditional perspective, which is why the Reformers and those like them are so consistently incorrect.

 

[Miss Annie]

Well, I believe that God can use even a poorly shared proclamation of the gospel to convert people. At any rate, I'm not really sure what was so bad about what he said beyond the fact that I don't necessarily agree with it. I get why "You aren't a Christian" was taken as offensive because you saw it as a lie rather than a doctrinal statement, but I see no other way to take "synergists are not saved" except as a doctrinal statement. It may be harsh, but I don't think it was straight up mean. Then again, I'm usually not very sensetive so there's that. I'm also nowhere near a synergist so there's that.



I'm not trying to insult you I just honestly don't understand how anyone could read the Bible and believe in free will or unlimited atonement. It just doesn't make any sense to me.

Listen honey, I know that you didn't MEAN to be insulting. I know that was not really your intention. Honestly, we should be able to discuss scripture without questioning anyone's salvation.
When we are dealing with people in general, there are things that we can say and tones that we can take that just causes our audience to stop listening. This is a very important concept that I have learned over the years. "Say what you mean, mean what you say, but don't say it mean".

 

[VIDEODROME]

If a person gets away with it in the short term, that doesn't mean they get away with it. He will still be held accountable to God for his actions... so he needs forgiveness just like everyone does.



Right, but not everyone sees it that way. If morality is subjective, then your thought (which is reasonable) is no better than the opinion of the guy who says stealing is OK. Unless there is an objective moral standard that transcends the fallible minds of man, then no one opinion can be better than any other.

Well, someday in heaven do you get your camera back?

 

[Natural Citizen]

"Say what you mean, mean what you say, but don't say it mean".

That's a pretty good way to be. Now I feel bad for yapping at HB and e. It do happen though, I suppose.

 

[Brett85]

Honestly, we should be able to discuss scripture without questioning anyone's salvation.

Yeah, should being the key word. Claiming that self described Christians aren't actually Christians adds absolutely nothing to the debate. This is all just getting to be a complete waste of time if we can't discuss these issues in a civil and constructive way.

 

[lilymc]

Well, someday in heaven do you get your camera back?

heheh! I don't think I will care about a little kodak video camera at that point. But I was able to replace it, even though it took several months.

 

[Christian Liberty]

Listen honey, I know that you didn't MEAN to be insulting. I know that was not really your intention. Honestly, we should be able to discuss scripture without questioning anyone's salvation.
When we are dealing with people in general, there are things that we can say and tones that we can take that just causes our audience to stop listening. This is a very important concept that I have learned over the years. "Say what you mean, mean what you say, but don't say it mean".

Yeah, should being the key word. Claiming that self described Christians aren't actually Christians adds absolutely nothing to the debate. This is all just getting to be a complete waste of time if we can't discuss these issues in a civil and constructive way.

Continually harping on someone's status before God may be unhelpful, but I don't think you can just say Christians shouldn't judge in the light of Galatians 1:8, or the numerous scriptures where Jesus condemns the Pharisees.

If I honestly believed someone here was unsaved, I'd consider it unloving of me not to tell them so.

 

[Natural Citizen]

This is all just getting to be a complete waste of time if we can't discuss these issues in a civil and constructive way.

Well, you know how it is. The second somebody brings up Jesus...



...every single time. It's true.