I don't believe in Jesus Christ

[erowe1]

Like I said, every single English translator disagrees with you, and for good reason.

How do they disagree? They say "draw."

 

[RJB]

Good point. Even after all the posts of Sola Fide attacking Arminians and Romans, I'm not sure what the church is he finds acceptable.

I think he's a Universalist.

 

[Sola_Fide]

Like I said, every single English translator disagrees with you, and for good reason.

What are you talking about? The word means DRAG.

 

[VIDEODROME]

I think he's a Universalist.

lmao

 

[Brett85]

What are you talking about? The word means DRAG.

The word means a lot of different things. It also means this.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/draw

"to bring by inducement or allure : attract <honey draws flies"

 

[erowe1]

Uh-uh. You didn't disprove anything. Maybe in your world. Not in the real world, e.

What are your answers? According to the earliest records we have of any beliefs about Jesus, these beliefs come from people who knew him personally, as a flesh and blood human being on this earth. Some of these people were brothers of Jesus. His mom was their mom. We have written sources from when these people were living within 20 years of the time that Jesus was alive on this earth, some of which are by these very same people, and others of which are by people who knew them. Where did all these people come from if Jesus didn't exist?

Tacitus wrote that the label "Christian" came from someone he called "Christus" who was crucified by Pontius Pilate (see here). Who was this person who was crucified by Pontius Pilate that Tacitus was talking about?

 

[Brett85]

Good point. Even after all the posts of Sola Fide attacking Arminians and Romans, I'm not sure what the church is he finds acceptable.

I don't think Sola Fide even goes to church. He probably thinks he's too good for that.

 

[erowe1]

The word means a lot of different things. It also means this.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/draw

"to bring by inducement or allure : attract <honey draws flies"

If you admit that the English translations use a word that means exactly what he's saying, even if it can mean other things, then how can you say that they prove him wrong? Even in your source, the first definition is just what SF said.

 

[Brett85]

If you admit that the English translations use a word that means exactly what he's saying, even if it can mean other things, then how can you say that they prove him wrong?

I don't think I said that. I just said that he can't prove that he's right.

 

[VIDEODROME]

Why go to church if you're Elect? I mean right there you're all set.

 

[lilymc]

Infant baptism is indeed biblical although unfortunately is not clearly stated (for example, we hear about households being baptized in acts, but it does not give the specific details). Nevertheless, this is where the Church comes in to fill in such gaps as the guardians and interpreters of Scripture, for from the very beginning the practice was to baptize children and babies. In fact, it wasn't until the 3rd century when this started to be challenged by I believe Tertullian. The practice EVERYWHERE up until then considered apostolic.

As for being born again in the sense you are describing (the modern verbiage), it is indeed powerful and Spirit illuminating and real, but that does not either negate or replace the mystery of regeneration and rebirth of water baptism which was the explicit teachings of Christ to His Apostles and practiced since then.

Jesus gave us an example of water baptism. He was a full-grown adult when he was baptized, not a baby.

I can't think of any examples of infant baptism in the bible. If you know of any, please post them.

Churches are not always right about everything. I trust the bible, not any particular church.

A person needs to have a true change of heart/mind. That's one of the problems I have with the Catholic church... When there's too much "religion" people often go through the motions without truly surrendering to God and making a conscious choice to commit to Jesus. Take my mom, for example. She believes in God, and she usually goes to church every Sunday. But the rest of the week she's just like everyone else. She never reads the bible, she would much rather watch TV, she still has a very worldly mindset, she worries about money and is very tight-fisted with it..... but most of all, she rejects the idea that she has to change, or the idea of being born again.

That's a very dangerous place to be.... thinking that going through the sacraments and going to church makes one saved, when their life does not show any significant difference than what it always was, and a person is more comfortable with the world than belonging to God and growing spiritually.

(I'm not talking about anyone here, I'm just speaking in general)

 

[Sola_Fide]

The word means a lot of different things. It also means this.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/draw

Look at where else helkuo is used in the New Testament. Where does this word mean "enticing"???

John 21:11

Simon Peter went up and dragged the net onto the land, full of big fish, a hundred and fifty three. And [though] being so many, the net was not torn.

Acts 16:19

And seeing that the hope of their gain went out, having seized Paul and Silas, her lords dragged them to the market before the rulers.

Acts 21:30

And the whole city was moved, and there was a running together of people. And laying hands on Paul, they drew him outside of the temple, and at once the doors were shut.

James 2:6

But you dishonored the poor one. Do not the rich ones oppress you, and they drag you to judgment seats?

Do any of these mean "enticing"?

 

[Brett85]

Why go to church if you're Elect? I mean right there you're all set.

Right. Why even try to live a good life if you're elect? If you're assured salvation no matter what, it seems as though you might as well just live life without boundaries and do what you want to do.

 

[erowe1]

Right. Why even try to live a good life if you're elect? If you're assured salvation no matter what, it seems as though you might as well just live life without boundaries and do what you want to do.

Also, since it's already determined how long you're going to live, why eat?

 

[Sola_Fide]

Right. Why even try to live a good life if you're elect? If you're assured salvation no matter what, it seems as though you might as well just live life without boundaries and do what you want to do.

A Christian lives a holy life out of gratitude to the favor that God has so graciously shown to him. And a Christian's works are part of the sanctification of the Spirit, which all comes from God anyway.

You think that a Christian does good works to maintain his salvation. This is the Galatian heresy that Paul condemns in Galatians 3.

 

[Brett85]

Look at where else helkuo is used in the New Testament. Where does this word mean "enticing"???

Do any of these mean "enticing"?

You didn't cite this verse.

"And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself."

 

[TER]

Jesus gave us an example of water baptism. He was a full-grown adult when he was baptized, not a baby.

I can't think of any examples of infant baptism in the bible. If you know of any, please post them.

Churches are not always right about everything. I trust the bible, not any particular church.

A person needs to have a true change of heart/mind. That's one of the problems I have with the Catholic church... When there's too much "religion" people often go through the motions without truly surrendering to God and making a conscious choice to commit to Jesus. Take my mom, for example. She believes in God, and she usually goes to church every Sunday. But the rest of the week she's just like everyone else. She never reads the bible, she would much rather watch TV, she still has a very worldly mindset, she worries about money and is very tight-fisted with it..... but most of all, she rejects the idea that she has to change, or the idea of being born again.

That's a very dangerous place to be.... thinking that going through the sacraments and going to church makes one saved, when their life does not show any significant difference than what it always was, and a person is more comfortable with the world than belonging to God and growing spiritually.

(I'm not talking about anyone here, I'm just speaking in general)

Very well lily, we can then agree to disagree. it's too late at night right now (and frankly I like you too much ) to debate this. I am happy to know you have Christ in your heart. That is the most important thing. I wish you a lovely evening. Now, off to bed for me! Goodnight all! I hope you guys get the Greek figured out before dawn!

 

[MelissaWV]

Threads like this actually bring me closer to God. I'd imagine He has a good laugh at the back and forth as long as no one's harmed and someone learns something.

 

[Brett85]

You think that a Christian does good works to maintain his salvation. This is the Galatian heresy that Paul condemns in Galatians 3.

No, that's not what I believe. I never said anything of the sort.

 

[lilymc]

Very well lily, we can then agree to disagree. it's too late at night right now (and frankly I like you too much ) to debate this. I am happy to know you have Christ in your heart. That is the most important thing. I wish you a lovely evening. Now, off to bed for me! Goodnight all! I hope you guys get the Greek figured out before dawn!

Thank you for being so kind and civil. Good night!