I disagree with Ron Paul on Immigration entirely

They have closed because government intervention has forced them to care for anyone who walks in the door. If they were free to care for only those who are capable of paying for care, or have insurance (i.e. free market) then they would still be thriving today.

There are plenty of white people who give false information when going into a hospital for care. It is very easy, and results in free care as well.

?
Bro, perhaps you need to know what you are talking about before you make blanket statements thus releinquishing cause from the outcome.

Dozens of hospitals have closed in California. Dozen's more in border cities. How many others? And we should attribute this to "white people" using fake ID'S - which doesn't make sense since care is provided not on who you are, but ability to pay!

SO, if hospitals give care to anybody and MOST of these anybodies CAN'T pay - then what?

Bingo!

I am SURE if you did some investigating you would find a correlation between these hospitals and the HUGE rise in illegal immigration in these cities.

Learn.
 
Question: Does the fence know this? Is this a special one-way fence, like a one-way mirror? In my experience, fences tend to work in two directions, forcing people to go around, over, under, or through choke-points.



Stated reasons are not always the real reasons.



For now. Sort of. Real freedom would not require "Your papers please".

Yes Dan, a one way fence. When has Mexico ever hampered our efforts to travel there? We go to Tijuana, Cancun, they love our tourist dollars. And they know we will be returning back to the US. Not the same can be said for those coming North.
I will be driving from LA to PA this week, no one will stop me at some checkpoint and ask for my 'papers' unless Im speeding of course.
 
Remember they are ILLEGALS and not migrants.

The bigotry in the forum astounds! They are BLACK and therefore BLACK people must sit in the BACK! Seriously people. A law is WORDS on a piece of paper. It doesn't mean it's right! A human being lives and breaths. Which is really more important?

These 'ILLEGALS' work a lot harder than than a lot of the 'LEGALS' who have been sitting on their asses cranking out babies and living off of welfare for more than 4 years as MOST people on welfare do.

Lets start an exchange program. I'll take an ILLEGAL and put them to work making our country great and get rid of one of these wellfare people.

Sound like fun?
 
Yes Dan, a one way fence. When has Mexico ever hampered our efforts to travel there? We go to Tijuana, Cancun, they love our tourist dollars. And they know we will be returning back to the US.

Yeah, but they make it very, very difficult to migrate there permanently.
 
Just my 1st impression of the debate here: there must be some FTL pro-immigrant folks in the crowd--owe I'm sorry, it's the extreme pro-liberty for others, libertarians. I used to be that way myself, but won't accept it til the welfare state is OV
 
The bigotry in the forum astounds! They are BLACK and therefore BLACK people must sit in the BACK! Seriously people. A law is WORDS on a piece of paper. It doesn't mean it's right! A human being lives and breaths. Which is really more important?

These 'ILLEGALS' work a lot harder than than a lot of the 'LEGALS' who have been sitting on their asses cranking out babies and living off of welfare for more than 4 years as MOST people on welfare do.

Lets start an exchange program. I'll take an ILLEGAL and put them to work making our country great and get rid of one of these wellfare people.

Sound like fun?

I always get a kick out of these types of posts (see above). So now we are racist? I can never understand how RACE ever factors in wanting a secure border, better education, lower taxes and not such a blight on our cities. If there were 20 million chinese, africans, canadians etc... I am fairly sure I would feel the same way.

See, someone like you does not have a valid argument other than emotion, so you call people racist. Race seems to ONLY BE AN ISSUE WITH YOU. Its unfortunate that MOST of these illegals are from Mexico, but really - is that our problem?

And in case you didn't know, 30% of illegals are on welfare - a much higher percentage that the AMERICAN population based on population.

So, again- as I urged others. get educated on this issue. Because emotion is not a good reason to support a horrible policy of not enforcing our borders, overrunning our schools, americans being killed, destroying hospitals, and lowering education standards across the board. The ramifications of SUCH A HUGE influx of illegals has TREMENDOUS consequences, and the american people have had enough.

I mean, what part of this do you support other than they work hard? Cause that isn't a good enough argument considering that they also suppress wages and take american jobs. <--- supported in many research documents. -(illegal immigrants are responsible for 40% of the black unemployement rate. Do you feel bad for the black americans? No, you don't do you?)

Again, I want to reiterate the assanine assumption that race always seem to play in these sorts of arguments. When you have NO DEFENSE, use race -- it seems to work alot and is a HUGE part of the liberal arsenal. Keep everyone poor, and dependant on the benevolent government....

How about this. Refrain from posting until you have a valid and thoughtful argument for illegal immigration other than working hard and supply/demand. (speaking on this topic only :-) )
 
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And in case you didn't know, 30% of illegals are on welfare - a much higher percentage that the AMERICAN population based on population.

And when you don't even have emotion on your side of the argument, make up statistics.

Illegal immigrants are ineligible for any kind of federal welfare benefits--with the exception of emergency health care. For those that are upset about people using the emergency room for non emergencies. Simple triage would eliminate this. Quick evaluation, if you do not have an emergency medical condition (trauma, high grade fever, symptoms of a highly contagious disease), please seek care elsewhere.

This seems like a common sense practice for legals and illegals alike.
 
So now we are racist?

Nope never said that.

A bigot is a prejudiced person who is intolerant of opinions, lifestyles, or identities differing from his or her own.

My purpose of relating the blacks in the back of a bus story was an example of an biggoted law that was helped changed by a principled person by participating in civil disobediance.

I just wanted to point out its not the fault of these people for wanting to make a better life for themself... I mean thats how my relatives came to be here, probably most of yours as well. I'm glad the original (Native?) American's immigration policy was so accepting of new people.

Anyway, good luck to you all.
 
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I'm glad the original (Native?) American's immigration policy was so accepting of new people.

Though I am sure this is sarcasm, it did make me chuckle somewhat, and reminded me of an email I received recently, that I will share with you all.

Email
Recently an old Indian chief sat in his hut on the reservation, smoking a Ceremonial pipe and eyeing two U. S. Government officials sent by the President to interview him. "Chief Two Eagles" asked one official, "You have observed the white man for 90 years. You've seen his wars and his technological advances. You've seen his progress, and the damage he's done." The Chief nodded in agreement. The official continued, ‘Considering all these events, in your opinion, where did the white man go wrong?"

The Chief stared at the government officials for over a minute and then calmly replied, "When white man found the land, Indians were running it. No taxes, no debt, plenty buffalo, plenty beaver, women did all work, medicine man free, Indian man spent all day hunting and fishing, all night having sex." Then the chief leaned back and smiled. "Only white man dumb enough to think he could improve system like that."


The President also received the following message from a Native American Indian Chief on a reservation: "Be careful with your immigration laws. We were careless with ours.
 
Immigration and Black Americans

"Black Californians felt the sting of illegal immigration 15 years ago but didn't know quite what to make of its symptoms. As a result, they are now critically and in many cases, fatally wounded with respect to low-skilled or entry-level positions. And, the black casualties continue to mount.": Karen Huff, San Diego Union-Tribune, Dec. 10, 1997.

"This once predominantly black neighborhood is becoming largely Hispanic. South Central [Los Angeles] is being transformed. Here we talk about 'black flight.' People are leaving neighborhoods where they have lived for years because they don't feel like they belong any more.": Terry Anderson, San Francisco Examiner, Feb. 3, 1999.

One of the cruelest effects of high-level immigration to the U.S. is its worsening of the plight of black Americans. Historically, blacks have suffered as a result of immigration. In the first half of the 1800s, immigration blocked blacks from economic mobility opportunities. Frederick Douglass was moved to say, "The old employments by which we have heretofore gained our livelihood, are gradually, and it may seem inevitably, passing into other hands. Every hour sees the black man elbowed out of employment by some newly arrived immigrant whose hunger and whose color are thought to give him a better title to the place."

During the post-Civil War industrial expansion, blacks lost out even for entry level positions when business owners preferred to hire white immigrants, who were then brought in en masse. The situation today is similar. During the Civil Rights era of the 1950s and 1960s, which was to have "freed" black Americans socially and economically, Congress also changed immigration law to pave the way for close to a million immigrants a year--many of whom compete with blacks for entry level positions.

According to recent studies, immigrants displace a disproportionate number of black workers and lower their wages. For example, a GAO study found that a decade of heavy immigration to Los Angeles had changed the janitorial industry from a mostly native black, unionized workforce to one of non-unionized Latinos, many of whom were illegal aliens.

According to the Census, the employment of black Americans as hotel workers in California dropped 30 percent in the 1980s, while the number of immigrants with such jobs rose 166 percent. A similar story can be told of the garment industry, the restaurant business, hospital work, and public service jobs. The Bureau of Labor Statistics found in a recent study that immigration accounts for about 50 percent of the decline in real wages for the lowest-skilled American workers, many of whom are blacks.

Immigration researcher and commentator Roy Beck noted in his 1996 book, The Case Against Immigration that:

"To review the Black side of our nation's immigration tradition is to observe African Americans periodically trying to climb the mainstream economic ladder, only to be shoved aside each time. It is to see one immigrant wave after another climb onto and up that ladder while planting their feet on the backs of Black Americans. . . . The most racist policy in this country for the past 25 years has been our immigration policy, because it has been the worst thing that has happened to the Blacks from the federal government since slavery."

George LaNoue, professor of political science at the University of Maryland, points out, "Affirmative action that was originally designed to compensate for the decades of discrimination against American blacks has been turned into a system where many of the beneficiaries, and in some environments, some cities, some sectors, most of the beneficiaries are people of fairly recent immigrant origin."

Black Americans are aware of immigration's impact and generally support immigration reform. The Roper Organization found in 1995 that 72 percent of black Americans think that immigration should be cut to less than a third of its present level. Gerri Williams, editor of Immigration Impact: Documenting the Effects of Immigration on African Americans, has noted, "as with earlier waves of immigration, African Americans have experienced the effects of this influx first and hardest. In education, politics, the labor market, social services, and more, the pressures caused by record levels of immigration are being felt in the black community. Immigration is one of the most significant forces affecting African Americans today."

While immigration reform would not be a panacea for all the difficulties of black Americans, it is obviously a step in the right direction. Congress must recognize that its policy of excessive immigration creates more obstacles to black advancement and should reduce admissions immediately.

http://www.issues-views.com/index.php/sect/2006/article/2085
 
an article

Originally printed:
April 24, 2007
Magic City Morning Call
Millinocket, Maine

Why the Illegals Must Go!
By William Gheen

Today, Americans face an unprecedented illegal immigration crisis facilitated by multi-billion dollar drug and human importing cartels as well as corporations which are inducing the invasion by aiding and abetting illegal aliens and using their influence on the Executive Branch and elections to paralyze existing immigration laws supported by over 80% of the American citizenry.
These events are not random and chaotic. Massive illegal immigration is the result of non-enforcement and under-enforcement of our existing immigration laws.
Supporters of illegal aliens love to claim that our immigration system is broken. The system is not broken. Elite financial and political business interests who could care less about the death and devastation they are causing Americans have sabotaged the system. Their profits continue to rise as they send the rest of America spiraling downward on a path to anarchy and Third World quality-of-life conditions.
By using their influence to suspend our existing laws, these globalist special interests have deprived all Americans of political representation as well as their votes, their voice, and a functioning Republic for which our flag stands.
When the laws of the American people - debated and voted on by their duly-elected Congressional Representatives and signed into law by the President - go intentionally under-enforced by the Executive Branch, all of the principles, sovereignty, and self-governance of Americans are derailed. The will of the American public, the existing laws, the US Constitution, and the borders of our great nation are perceived as market hindrances to the global elite. We the people of America are perceived as peasants and subjects beneath the power of their influence.
The American public has spoken through our lawmakers and in numerous polls. A super majority of Americans want our existing laws enforced, those responsible for illegal immigration fined and/or imprisoned, the borders secured, and illegal aliens deported from the United States for many years or permanently. These fact remain, despite several politicized polls which attempt to manufacture consent and make you believe such views represent a minority.
The truth is that most Americans want the illegal aliens to return to the nations of which they are citizens. The rallying cry is: "Illegals Go Home!"
We could easily list 101 reasons why Americans are upset about illegal immigration. Most are concerned about the 4,000+ preventable deaths of Americans by the criminal acts of illegal aliens on our soil each year. No corporate propaganda will change the fact that most Americans do not want to surrender or capitulate to the lawless masses rushing into our nation.
No poll or politicized source is needed to prove this point because the decision is based upon our nation's successful history and basic common sense. The answer is based on something that every judge, lawmaker, and even street thug knows. The penalties must outweigh the benefits if you want to deter any action.
It is common sense and common practice in America that for any law to be a deterrent, two important factors are in play. First, the laws must be enforced, and second, the penalties for any crime must exceed the benefits to those breaking the law.
It is truly amazing that we find ourselves as a nation having to explain these basic foundations of law to corporations and politicians in the year 2007 despite their existence since the dawn of civilization! Can you imagine what would happen in America if the penalty for robbing a bank was that you had to return half of the money you stole if, and only if, you were apprehended for the crime? What if the penalty for car theft was paying a $2,000 fine if you were caught with the stolen vehicle?
The answers are clear. Within a month, you would not have a bank open in America and you would not be able to keep a car worth more than $2,000 in your driveway for more than a week. How many millions of people would quickly take up the careers of bank robber and car thief once the rewards for the crime were higher than the penalty?
If American businesses and homes left their windows and doors unlocked each night and robbers were merely removed by police when detected - only to try again the next night - what do you think would happen? If big, global businesses practiced the same non-enforcement of security similar to the lack of border security and lack of immigration enforcement they have facilitated for Americans, they would be out of business in a matter of days or weeks. If they left their doors unlocked at night and just pushed people back to the street, America would quickly descend into such chaos and anarchy that we would be unable to sustain a population of 300 million. Our population would take a hit similar to the impact of the Black Plague on Europe, and we would quickly enter a new dark age.
Since illegal aliens can never afford to compensate Americans for what they have taken, they must go. We do not need to go door to door looking for illegals to deport in America. Attrition through enforcement works. Illegal aliens are leaving the states of Georgia and Pennsylvania in droves, not because they are enforcing the laws but because they have simply announced they plan to start!
Unfortunately, the current state of affairs in America has illegals flooding in by the millions each year and many law-abiding Americans fleeing the states of California and Texas and many towns and cities in search of more safety and security. Many Americans are on the run and finding few places left to run to.
The illegal aliens are sending a clear message on the streets of Los Angeles and other major urban centers. They are saying: "This is our land. White, black, and legal Hispanics get out!"
This is great news for the housing and real estate markets, Wal-Mart, and McDonalds. They are growing the economy using rapid population growth. This is great news for big corporations and bad news for Americans.
Attrition through enforcement will work. In fact, if President George Bush were to announce on national television that America would begin securing our borders and enforcing our existing laws in one month, so many illegal aliens would leave America that Mexico would have to set up refuge stations!
Another important reason that the illegal aliens must leave for the long term is that they'll return to their home communities with a message for their neighbors that their ill-gotten gains did not pay off in America. This is the only thing that will stop, or slow, the flow. Deporting illegal aliens and sending them packing is the only real way we can put a stop to this crisis.
The politicians in DC are very aware that Americans want the illegal aliens to go. That is why their latest Scamnesty legislation includes a "touchback" provision. Under these laws, the illegal aliens can hop across the Mexican or Canadian borders where special "Ellis Island" stations are set up for them to pay a fine, receive new documentation and be back in the US within days or hours.
The lunatics advocating this plan are counting on Americans to be so stupid and so gullible that they can say, "Look, the illegals left and walked back in legally. Problem solved!" They are eager to pretend to accommodate the American desires for the illegals to leave while quickly returning their slave labor force to our nation.
They know that Americans want illegals to leave and get behind a long line of legal immigrants waiting to enter the US, including millions of people who have been waiting 5-10 years. These politicians and the illegal aliens need to be shown the way to the back of the line. The back of the line is back in the country in which they are citizens, 5-10 years down the road behind all of the talented and law-abiding people who respect our laws.
If these traitorous corporations and politicians succeed in setting up these Ellis Island stations for “Operation Touchback," the revered symbol of Ellis Island will take on a new meaning that Americans see with contempt and resentment. Ellis Island will become a name associated with the horrendous betrayal of free Americans and the deathblow to the American Republic. This is a symbol of America’s surrender and the subjugation of all her people.
If we allow the politicians in DC to sign off on the many Guest Worker, Temporary Worker, Path to Citizenship, Amnesty, Scamnesty bills written by the US Chamber of Commerce, then no wall with an army on top of it will stop the next 20 million from crashing down on our country. We will have signaled that America is weak and will capitulate and accommodate. Already, the word is out in Central and South America that they can come and stay. Each time President Bush has opened his mouth about such programs, the US Border Patrol reports massive spikes in illegal crossings.
Since there is literally no end to the stream of illegals who want to be in America, this will be the end of America as we have known it and as history has praised it.
In the past, when America has cracked down on illegal immigration and the American people have signaled they want the immigration brakes applied, the policies have worked. New laws written near the turn of the 20th century greatly reduced the amount of immigration into America. When Presidents Franklin Roosevelt and Dwight Eisenhower launched large deportation campaigns in the 1950s and 1930s, illegal immigration slowed to minuscule levels as a result.
Whether you agree or disagree with the decisions of the past, these policies were part of the successful formula that have led America to become the most opulent and successful civilization in human history.

While some argue that these enforcement measures were racist and that some American citizens of different races were improperly deported at the time, we now have the technology and methodology in place to assure that American citizens and legal immigrants are not improperly affected by our immigration enforcement efforts.
The difference in 2007 is that the globalist corporations that have hijacked the American government want to stop the American citizenry from applying the brakes this time. They have taken away our ability to determine who can enter our nation and our ability to stop armed and unarmed invasions as granted by the US Constitution.
To take away the self-governance of Americans is to kill the very thing that has made us such a great and successful nation.
In a time of crisis like this, we must stand firm on the principles that have made America an attractive and great nation. We must stand firm on the rule of law. The law must be applied equally to big corporations and illegal aliens alike lest we all become slaves subject to the plans of masters instead of a free and empowered citizenry.
Illegal aliens and corporations must endure penalties for their illegal, deadly, and destructive actions that exceed the benefits they gain from their illegal activities.

The hour is late and it is time for Americans to stand up and say with one voice...

No Amnesty! No Guest Worker! Secure our borders and enforce the existing laws! Restore the American Republic!
The illegals must go.
Illegals go home!

William Gheen
President, Americans for Legal Immigration PAC (ALIPAC)
www.alipac.us
 
And when you don't even have emotion on your side of the argument, make up statistics.

Illegal immigrants are ineligible for any kind of federal welfare benefits--with the exception of emergency health care. For those that are upset about people using the emergency room for non emergencies. Simple triage would eliminate this. Quick evaluation, if you do not have an emergency medical condition (trauma, high grade fever, symptoms of a highly contagious disease), please seek care elsewhere.

This seems like a common sense practice for legals and illegals alike.

Here are some statistics for you. What happens when a child is born here (an anchor baby)? Do they get a medicaid card? They sure do. My fireman brother goes on calls ALL day with illegals who come here JUST TO HAVE A BABY, and get their children medicaid cards and then to get the welfare benefits.

Here are some statistics from the Los Angeles Times:

40 percent of all workers are working for cash and not paying taxes. Why would they want to be legal and pay taxes? They would be able to start bringing the rest of their families to the USA.

75 percent of people on L.A.'s most-wanted list are illegal aliens.

Over two-thirds of all births are to illegal alien Mexicans on Medi-Cal whose births were paid for by the taxpayers.

Nearly 25 percent of all inmates in California detention centers are here illegally.

Over 300,000 illegals are living in garages.

The FBI reports half of all gang members in Los Angeles are most likely illegals from south of the border.

Nearly 60 percent of all occupants of HUD properties are illegal.

Of the 10 million people in Los Angeles County, 5.1 million speak English and 3.9 million speak Spanish.

21 radio stations in Los Angeles are Spanish speaking.

More statistics:

Less than 2 percent of illegals are picking crops but 29 percent are on welfare.

Over 70 percent of the U.S. annual population growth (over 90 percent of California, Florida and New York) are from immigration.

29 percent of inmates in the federal prisons are illegal aliens.

The lifetime fiscal impact (taxes minus services used) for the average adult Mexican immigrant is a negative.

They also send between about $15 billion back to Mexico to assist their families and prop up the corrupt Mexican government that keeps most of its citizens in poverty. How about a revolt in their own country!

A new figure from yesterday: It cost Los Angeles $276 million in welfare costs for 100,000 children of illegal aliens.

*****
Also look up the cost that Illionois is dealing with. Its horrendous.

Regardless of what your solutions are "if they just would do this or that.." is irrelevant because that is not the reality of the situation NOW!
 
Nope never said that.



My purpose of relating the blacks in the back of a bus story was an example of an biggoted law that was helped changed by a principled person by participating in civil disobediance.

I just wanted to point out its not fault of these people for wanting to make a better life for themself... I mean thats how my relatives came to be here, probably most of yours as well. I'm glad the original (Native?) American's immigration policy was so accepting of new people.

Anyway, good luck to you all.

? So we are getting into semanitcs? You called us Bigots.

Its funny you bring up blacks - beause it is mostly them that are being hit hardest by this wave of illegals.

I think everyone is very clear, and I am not sure WHY your mentality (not saying its wrong) always seem to focus on the "victims being the illegals, and just wanting a better life". To me, that is totally irresponsible because you REMOVE all culpibility from them. I understand that the government has done a HEINOUS job of enforcing laws because BUSH is in the pockets of everyone BUT the american people. But be that as if may, an illegal is an illegal is an illegal. They knowingly commit a crime to come here. Many of them additional commit crimes to forge socials and get papers and then even more take advantage of our social systems and such. I can't say what i would do if I was in that situation, but again - I care MORE for my AMERICAN BRETHREN that I do them. This is not a socialist country. They, the illegals, are really starting to collapse things.. maybe you haven't been hit hard by it so you do not understand the frustration many of us feel.

But I would urge you to do some reading on the detriments of illegal immigration and who the american victims are. Do some reasearch on the negative impact it is having on our country and its people. Do not do a search for "business" or how they benefit the economy because they are just putting money into big business who then pockets it, and the states have to pick up the social and educational tab which then gets syphoned from our paychecks.

Do some research instead of blindly defending it. I am not saying you can't, but it would behoove you to see "our" side of it.
 
Here are some statistics for you. What happens when a child is born here (an anchor baby)? Do they get a medicaid card? They sure do. My fireman brother goes on calls ALL day with illegals who come here JUST TO HAVE A BABY, and get their children medicaid cards and then to get the welfare benefits.

Here are some statistics from the Los Angeles Times:

40 percent of all workers are working for cash and not paying taxes. Why would they want to be legal and pay taxes? They would be able to start bringing the rest of their families to the USA.

If you're quoting the L.A. Times, please provide a link.

75 percent of people on L.A.'s most-wanted list are illegal aliens.
Looks more like a symptom of the failed war on drugs than an illegal immigration problem

Over two-thirds of all births are to illegal alien Mexicans on Medi-Cal whose births were paid for by the taxpayers.
Again, this may be my personal white guilt, but I don't see why you have the right to those benefits for being born here, but that child doesn't. Had you done something at birth more "American" than that child did?

Nearly 25 percent of all inmates in California detention centers are here illegally.
Looks more like a symptom of the failed war on drugs than an illegal immigration problem

Over 300,000 illegals are living in garages.
I don't know how you could possibly know that, but you're free to rent out any area of your home for someone to sleep.

The FBI reports half of all gang members in Los Angeles are most likely illegals from south of the border.
Looks more like a symptom of the failed war on drugs than an illegal immigration problem

Nearly 60 percent of all occupants of HUD properties are illegal.
Another stat that you couldn't possibly know, but this is an issue that I would agree we can have a real immigration debate on as it is a misuse of welfare. The occupant in this statistic isn't the person who applied for HUD housing.

Of the 10 million people in Los Angeles County, 5.1 million speak English and 3.9 million speak Spanish.
I think the old joke is appropriate here. "Speak two languages and you're bilingual. Speak one and you must be American". We are essentially the only country in the western world that is arrogant enough to think that to bridge a language gap that the other person must build the bridge all by themselves. Language is a freedom of speech issue. It is government's responsibility to protect our rights.

21 radio stations in Los Angeles are Spanish speaking.
Are you suggesting that you wish to tell private industry what kind of product they can produce? Again, language is a freedom of speech issue.

More statistics:

Less than 2 percent of illegals are picking crops but 29 percent are on welfare.
I suppose you failed to read my previous rebuttal. Illegal immigrants are ineligible for any kind of federal welfare benefits. Quit making it up as you go along. I don't even know what that statistic is trying to say. Is it saying that
a)29 percent of people picking crops are on welfare,
b)29 percent of illegal immigrants are on welfare or that
c) 29 percent of the 2 percent of illegal immigrants that pick crops are on welfare
??

Over 70 percent of the U.S. annual population growth (over 90 percent of California, Florida and New York) are from immigration.
I think this statistic is made up, but it's not surprising if it were true. There are only four ways for population change; migration, immigration, birth and death.
from : https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/print/us.html
Birth rate is 1.4%
Death rate is 0.86%
migration is 0.31%
Since migration would be from one U.S. location to another it's rather moot. Your statistics would suggest that there 18 per 1000 immigrants that come to this country legally and illegally alike. That is 5.4 million people. In 2006, there 1,266,264 legal permanent residents (http://www.dhs.gov/ximgtn/statistics/publications/LPR06.shtm) that immigrated legally. Are you suggesting that there were 4.1 million illegal immigrants that crossed our border in 2006? I guess that's how you get to the 20 million illegal immigrant number when Pew Hispanic center only estimated 11.1 million here totally in 2005 and only attribute a flow of +500,000 per year.

29 percent of inmates in the federal prisons are illegal aliens.
Looks more like a symptom of the failed war on drugs than an illegal immigration problem

The lifetime fiscal impact (taxes minus services used) for the average adult Mexican immigrant is a negative.
This is true for 95% of Americans as well as the top 5% of wage earners in America pay more than half of the taxes. (I'm sorry I don't have a citation for this one. If you need one, I'd be happy to find one, although I don't think you would dispute this)

They also send between about $15 billion back to Mexico to assist their families and prop up the corrupt Mexican government that keeps most of its citizens in poverty. How about a revolt in their own country!
"send between about"?? that looks like a reliable data source. Do you not send money to your family?

A new figure from yesterday: It cost Los Angeles $276 million in welfare costs for 100,000 children of illegal aliens.
First, it doesn't say how many of those children are not U.S. citizens themselves. Second, the residents of Los Angeles are perfectly capable of deciding through their city council (And the state of California is capable of deciding through it's legislature) who may receive welfare. Why do you insist on telling them otherwise? Illegal immigrants are already ineligible to receive federal welfare.

*****
Also look up the cost that Illionois is dealing with. Its horrendous.

Regardless of what your solutions are "if they just would do this or that.." is irrelevant because that is not the reality of the situation NOW!

I'm sorry, I don't know where Illionois is . I don't believe that is in America, so not really my concern. :) Eliminate the war on drugs, stop saying that they are stealing from us, and then we can have a logical debate on what the solution is.
 
This is not a socialist country.

Really?

Socialism is typically characterised by:
  • Redistribution of wealth, typically by progressive taxation of high earners. (Income tax?)
  • Minimum wages
  • Employment protection (susano's 'Immigrants are destroying 'blacks' jobs and neighborhoods' story)
  • Trade union recognition rights
  • Benefits and burdens of publicly funded research and development are extended to the wider populace.(NASA?)

They, the illegals, are really starting to collapse things.. maybe you haven't been hit hard by it so you do not understand the frustration many of us feel. But I would urge you to do some reading on the detriments of illegal immigration

I truly do understand where you're coming from. But I'm trying to show you it's not them that's the root of the problem. Amazingly they are helping American's (the people) in our time of need against our faulty Federal government.

The harm that you are stipulating is just stressing the system to where it will eventually go anyway. It was all breaking before 'they' were here too. They are just speeding up the process.

You can't keep band-aiding the system forever. It will eventually collapse like the USSR.
 
There is only one solution to the immigration problem that also in turn cuts the size of government, and that is ending all social welfare. Adding more border guards and a fence is just going to grow the size of government. Ending welfare ends all the problems that people associate with immigration. I find it kinda of strange how people are trying to blame other humans rather than the government's own action that induces the problem. Ending welfare prevents the hospitals from facing huge budget crunches. It makes it so you don't have to subsidize the education of those that do come across the border. You won't have to shell out for the retirement of others. The number one thing it does is no longer entice those who are looking for welfare to cross. Instead of getting those looking for handouts you get those who work hard. The only real gripe is the welfare. I find it odd how people complain about immigrants getting work here in the U.S. They complain about having to compete for a job. In free market systems that is how it should work. You are not entitled to job in a free market system, yet people think this way. NAFTA also plays a role in the huge up surge of immigrants to the U.S. The NAFTA agreement killed the Mexican economy.
 
i have heard on more than one occasion ron paul say : if we weren't such a heavy welfare state immigration wouldnt be a problem...I dont think rp is against immigration entirely its just that where we are right now in the economy leaves no room for illegal immigration....get some things fixed and it wouldnt be such a problem I personally wouldnt be here if it weren't for immigration (my grandparents moved from germany) and i would like to move out of this country now but I can't because I dont have a lot of money to throw to someone elses government and i dont have a college degree so i cant get a work visa, so unless i hit the powerball sometime soon im pretty much screwed...so this is a kind of personal issue for me

I think that if we got rid of personal taxes, inflation went down, and people were doing more for our economy then immigration wouldnt be such a big issue...

you have to understand that on most issues RP is going to vote with the constitution and there are lots of little additions to bills that we never hear about so if he votes yes or no on something there was probably something in the bill that is unconstitutional or invades privacy.....we have to read between the lines and not be so convinced by "the big picture"
 
"I know the difference and once you give government anything even if it is a small amount, you give it everything. Every civilization has failed."

And so has every state of anarchy.

In a perfect world there would be no borders.

For now Pauls position is correct IMO.


Soo True...Silverback :cool:

We'll first need a Country with REAL Freedom for its Citizens...then this Countries Citizens could SHOW THE WAY for Other Countries Citizens to become REALLY FREE...by trading and communicating and making FRIENDS with Citizens in said Countries...


OHH SORRY...

I just realized that SOMEONE already have spoken about this...:eek: :eek:

AHHH...I can't remember his name though...:confused:

ARRR PEEE something....I guess...:D :D

:cool: :) Largo:) :cool:
 
Susano, perhaps you should ask that question of yourself. People are not political parties (unless they're dumb suckers), they are people who can join and drop any party they want any time they want. That being said, I have 0 party affiliation.


And folks if you really really need a solid border, so much as even building a fence... have one, do it. Just do it on the Red River, not the Rio Grande!
 
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