I am Pro-Ron Paul but don't see what's wrong with the NAU/NAFTA Superhighway?

Somewhat coincidentally (I just discovered within the last few minutes), constitutional scholar Ilya Somin just posted today a discussion regarding a recent eminent domain decision from Colorado where "the litigation in question arose because a city had committed to condemning some private property in order to transfer it to a developer." Mr. Somin discusses Kelo v. New London and various state laws passed to mitigate the foregoing decision. If you want to check it out, to go the Volokh website, which is named after constitional attorney Eugene Volokh and blogged by numerous libertarian leaning constitional attorneys.
 
KELO et al. v. CITY OF NEW LONDON et al.
CERTIORARI TO THE SUPREME COURT OF CONNECTICUT
No. 04—108.Argued February 22, 2005–Decided June 23, 2005

After approving an integrated development plan designed to revitalize its ailing economy, respondent city, through its development agent, purchased most of the property earmarked for the project from willing sellers, but initiated condemnation proceedings when petitioners, the owners of the rest of the property, refused to sell. Petitioners brought this state-court action claiming, inter alia, that the taking of their properties would violate the “public use” restriction in the Fifth Amendment’s Takings Clause. The trial court granted a permanent restraining order prohibiting the taking of the some of the properties, but denying relief as to others. Relying on cases such as Hawaii Housing Authority v. Midkiff, 467 U.S. 229, and Berman v. Parker, 348 U.S. 26, the Connecticut Supreme Court affirmed in part and reversed in part, upholding all of the proposed takings.

Held: The city’s proposed disposition of petitioners’ property qualifies as a “public use” within the meaning of the Takings Clause. Pp. 6—20.

(a) Though the city could not take petitioners’ land simply to confer a private benefit on a particular private party, see, e.g., Midkiff, 467 U.S., at 245, the takings at issue here would be executed pursuant to a carefully considered development plan, which was not adopted “to benefit a particular class of identifiable individuals,” ibid. Moreover, while the city is not planning to open the condemned land–at least not in its entirety–to use by the general public, this “Court long ago rejected any literal requirement that condemned property be put into use for the … public.” Id., at 244. Rather, it has embraced the broader and more natural interpretation of public use as “public purpose.” See, e.g., Fallbrook Irrigation Dist. v. Bradley, 164 U.S. 112, 158—164. Without exception, the Court has defined that concept broadly, reflecting its longstanding policy of deference to legislative judgments as to what public needs justify the use of the takings power. Berman, 348 U.S. 26; Midkiff, 467 U.S. 229; Ruckelshaus v. Monsanto Co., 467 U.S. 986. Pp. 6—13.

(b) The city’s determination that the area at issue was sufficiently distressed to justify a program of economic rejuvenation is entitled to deference. The city has carefully formulated a development plan that it believes will provide appreciable benefits to the community, including, but not limited to, new jobs and increased tax revenue. As with other exercises in urban planning and development, the city is trying to coordinate a variety of commercial, residential, and recreational land uses, with the hope that they will form a whole greater than the sum of its parts. To effectuate this plan, the city has invoked a state statute that specifically authorizes the use of eminent domain to promote economic development. Given the plan’s comprehensive character, the thorough deliberation that preceded its adoption, and the limited scope of this Court’s review in such cases, it is appropriate here, as it was in Berman, to resolve the challenges of the individual owners, not on a piecemeal basis, but rather in light of the entire plan. Because that plan unquestionably serves a public purpose, the takings challenged here satisfy the Fifth Amendment. P. 13.

(c) Petitioners’ proposal that the Court adopt a new bright-line rule that economic development does not qualify as a public use is supported by neither precedent nor logic. Promoting economic development is a traditional and long accepted governmental function, and there is no principled way of distinguishing it from the other public purposes the Court has recognized. See, e.g., Berman, 348 U.S., at 24. Also rejected is petitioners’ argument that for takings of this kind the Court should require a “reasonable certainty” that the expected public benefits will actually accrue. Such a rule would represent an even greater departure from the Court’s precedent. E.g., Midkiff, 467 U.S., at 242. The disadvantages of a heightened form of review are especially pronounced in this type of case, where orderly implementation of a comprehensive plan requires all interested parties’ legal rights to be established before new construction can commence. The Court declines to second-guess the wisdom of the means the city has selected to effectuate its plan. Berman, 348 U.S., at 26. Pp. 13—20.


You be the judge....
 
Also, if you don't want to pay the tolls for the superhighway, then don't drive on it. I would rather see a toll system in place for the superhighway because such tolls will be used for future road maintenance expenses. Moreover, only the persons that use the superhighway will pay such tolls. Otherwise, the U.S. taxpayers who don't use the superhighway will pay for future road maintenance expenses.

do you realize they have in the contract with the state of texas that non toll road speeds must be reduced to 50mph?

Every mph over 50 they have to pay to this company lost profits!

In addition to this they are taking our already paid roads and turning them over to a private company on a "lease", it is NOT an entirely new road.
 
Forgive my misspellings of "constitutional" in my prior post. Starting to wind down for the night.

I really despise the Kelo v. New London decision. Someone in another thread posted whether he should seek local office. I encouraged him to do so for various reasons because I am a former local officeholder. However, it is cases like Kelo v. New London that remind me how important it is for good people to seek local government office. As my first year property law professor at Notre Dame Law School once noted, there is nothing more powerful than a local officeholder because there is generally no check and balance system at the local level like there is at higher levels of state and federal government. So if you decide not to run for Congress, at the very least I hope some of you look into running for your local government office to prevent future Kelo v. New London cases.
 
What is bad about it? Why shouldn't we have it?

Please back up all statements with quality sources.

No propaganda videos on youtube please.

It will be owned/controlled by foreign interests.

At approximately 1/4 mile wide (crossing by any means only possible at controlled points possibly several miles apart), it will be a virtual impenetrable barrier to freedom of travel if your "papers" are not in order. The perfect way to control the populace (the natural unalienable right to locomotion includes the right to change one's circumstances while exercising free agency).


DYODD!
 
Excellent post all. learned a lot. I know the recent discussion has leaned towards Kelo and the highway, but I was wondering if anyone has any recommendations of books detailing the history of the move in Europe towards the EU?
 
Thanks a lot for your help guys, this topic is obviously very complicated but I don't believe that its a deciding factor in whether or not to support Ron Paul. Saying that, I still do support Ron Paul and will continue to.
 
Like I said, please back up your statements. I don't see how we lose our sovereignty from it.



You kidding?

And the United Kingdom is still sovereign right? hahaha

90% of new legislation in Europe is from or originates from Brussells.

Europe is a United States, and its federal government is about as powerful as ours was 100 years ago. You think it will not get worse?
 
NAU = uncontrolled immigration into the US

NAU = eventual devaluation of our currency as ours is merged with Mexico's Peso

NAU = lower standard of living for everyone as cheap labor floods the US and big corporations rejoice

NAU = loss of our sovereignty and transfer of power to a supranational authority (like the European Parliament or UN of North America)

NAU = national ID card to track everyone's movements across the border (loss of individual rights to privacy)
 
Excellent post all. learned a lot. I know the recent discussion has leaned towards Kelo and the highway, but I was wondering if anyone has any recommendations of books detailing the history of the move in Europe towards the EU?

You might enjoy this, No EU - Common Purpose Government Infiltrators 9-15-07 Brian Gerrish: http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...589&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

Powerful technique of local subversion, hopefully not coming to a neighborhood near you...
 

the NA superhighway is bad because...

it is not free to drive on it

there will be toll taxes on it. you will have to pay money to drive on it. this money WILL NOT help america. even if it did help america, i wouldn't want the toll tax to exist anyway.


also, there will be area's of it walled off so small towns can die. small towns won't be allowed to build a exit/entrance to the superhighway to allow people to visit their town, thus leading to the death of the town eventually


if the nafta superhighway was free to drive on, and small towns could add roads going to and from it so people could visit their town, i wouldn't have a problem with it either.
 
also, the tolls you pay to drive on it WILL GO to foreign companies. it won't help maintain the road ROFL ROFL ROFL

the nafta superhighway would produce billions a year in tolls, and a small fraction of that will go towards maintenance
 
Wait a second, all the gripes stated above about the superhighway having tolls, not every small town having an exit, areas of it being walled off, and a foreign company owning it goes for other toll roads that have nothing to do with the NAU or NAFTA. Anyone who lives in Indiana knows about Interstate 80 (the Indiana tollway), which runs east and west. I-80 has been a tollway for decades, has never provided an exit for every small town (small towns flourish anyway because they have other roads to use), and I believe it was recently leased to a foreign company for billions of dollars.

The leasing of the Indiana tollway to a foreign company was a good deal for the taxpayers because the taxpayers get all the billions of dollars up front and the foreign company that has the lease to the Indiana tollway recoups its up front expense over several decades via tolls. However, only the actual users of the Indiana tollway pay the tolls if they choose to drive on it. If a person doesn't want to pay the tolls, they can drive on State Highway 20, which is not a toll road although the speed limit is lower.

In short, just because a highway is leased to a foreign company, requires tolls to drive on it, does not provide an exit for every town, does not mean that it is part of a conspiracy to further NAFTA or the NAU because there are plenty of other toll roads throughout the U.S. that fit the description in various parts of the country. If you don't like the toll road, then don't drive on it.
 
the NA superhighway is bad because...

it is not free to drive on it

there will be toll taxes on it. you will have to pay money to drive on it. this money WILL NOT help america. even if it did help america, i wouldn't want the toll tax to exist anyway.


also, there will be area's of it walled off so small towns can die. small towns won't be allowed to build a exit/entrance to the superhighway to allow people to visit their town, thus leading to the death of the town eventually


if the nafta superhighway was free to drive on, and small towns could add roads going to and from it so people could visit their town, i wouldn't have a problem with it either.


Stop screaming!!!!!!!
 
In short, just because a highway is leased to a foreign company, requires tolls to drive on it, does not provide an exit for every town, does not mean that it is part of a conspiracy to further NAFTA or the NAU because there are plenty of other toll roads throughout the U.S. that fit the description in various parts of the country. If you don't like the toll road, then don't drive on it.

Did you miss this post above:
do you realize they have in the contract with the state of texas that non toll road speeds must be reduced to 50mph?

Every mph over 50 they have to pay to this company lost profits!

I hadn't heard that before, but it is certainly interesting.
 
you dont see whats wrong with it????

have you ever read about a man named Hitler?? and what he was trying to succeed on doing?

That post is MCCAIN APPROVED!
mccain.jpg




Seriously though its all about Sovereignty,
 
Two possible details...

#1) This could allow ports to be moved away from Americas East and West coasts... this would screw over the American port workers and truckers and related workers.

#2) This moving of the ports could also be seen as a way to reduce the area that a nuke in a ship pulling into a port and setting it off because who wants to nuke Mexico or Canada?

#1) Bad
#2) Good

Probably this highway could be setup under someone honest like Ron Paul without it involving outsiders... Then we could have our cake and eat it to.. assuming the people that own the land would be willing to sell it for this highway... eminent domain shouldn't be used in most cases even for this highway.
 
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