I am pissed off.

This looks to be an emotional thread. From the replies....

Can someone Break down to me in plain language what this person's concern was in #1 of his posting. Honestly doesn't really make Ron look racist to me at all sounds like he opposes profiling? Which is a form of racism. Though I'm not against it.
 
Rebutal

1. To start with, this policy is far less racist than an entire WAR on the Middle East. We don't even show casualties of the native Iraqiis, nor do we say how many we have imprisoned in Abu Ghraib. I sincerely believe that a change in foreign policy toward Ron Paul's libertarian ideals is the only way to make Americans think of other global citizens as human beings. Stopping a war against the growing number of opposition to America is the first step in changing policy. That is where our focus needs to be held because it is the most vital step in achieving basic human rights for everybody on the planet. Ron Paul's support for libertarian foreign policy is evolutionary and revolutionary when considering what kinds of foreign policies super powers have had up to this date.

2. First of all, do not use politcal jargon when talking about Ron Paul. He is not a flip flopper. He isn't even a politician as I have come to understand the word. Ron Paul has basic beliefs that he stands behind and uses to formulate policies. The Constitution is absolutely one of his major beliefs. One of the beautiful things about the Constitution is that it is diachronic, that is, it can last throughout time. The ability to revise and rebuild based on current day needs allow American beliefs to adapt to the modern necesities. This is vitally important. It is part of the Constitution to be able to do this, and Ron Paul absolutely stands behind the Constitution when he wishes to revise it. If you still think that the basic premise of revising the Constitution is bad, look to women's right to vote, the abolition of slavery, and a couple of other things that we now consider pretty important. Still, I understand if you disagree with him. That is okay. We live in America where we have the first amendment. Formulate the reasons why you believe that birthright citizenship is important and feel free to argue them with anyone on this sight or elsewhere. Ron Paul is not a 'flip flopper', but he certainly does use his mind. If you were to present him with a strong argument for your cause, then I'm sure that he would at least consider it, and probably argue back. That is what we all need to do if we want to strengthen our own beliefs.

3. I really don't know what you are trying to say here. Ron Paul is the only candidate who will actually fix America's foreign policy and therefore help to secure our fiscal standing. He is the only fiscally responsible candidate as far as I'm concerned. If you don't understand that Obama and the rest of the Democrats are not fiscally prudent yet, then you should probably do some more reading into Ron Paul's ideas versus Hillary Clinton's. There is a major difference between the basic philosophies of the Republican (libertarian?) and Democrat (socialist?) parties. This is my main reason for supporting Ron Paul, and I believe that it is his most important, because when you get right down to it, economics dictates the world, not dictators.

4. To be completely honest with you, I agree, and it was certainly a point of concern for me. However, Ron Paul is a reasonable person and the best solution is to begin to create a stir for your cause. Based on the emails that I've gotten from the official campaign, and from everything that I've observed from Ron Paul, I sincerely believe that if you create enough concern for this issue, then it will be addressed by President Paul. I can't help but agree with you and say that it is incongruent with the rest of his policies, but the nice thing about Ron Paul is that if you ever need to take him as the lesser of two evils, he will always win. This position is just the tip of the iceberg when considering the issues that other politicians have brought up with the war on 'Islamic fundamentalists'. At least Paul doesn't want to nuke Iran.

5. I disagree with you here. There is a reason that Al Queda and Hezbollah and many other terrorist groups have at least originated from the Middle East. You are right about terrorism being a result of political and economic factors, but how did you miss that all of those factors are readily available in the Middle East. That doesn't mean that it's right that we target populations for the destructive forces of few, but it does at least make sense. If we really want to put an end to terrorism, then we must change our foreign policy. We ourselves have been major contributors to the political and economic problems in the Middle East. We are still doing so today (watch the documentary No End in Sight). What we as a nation need to do is exactly what Dr. Paul prescribes. We need to stop these entangling relations with Israel (and others) and begin to have free trade with all. That is the true way to fix the economic and political problems of the Middle East. If we are to make such a drastic change in foreign policy that would be upheld by future generations, then I was thinking that we might think of issuing an appology to the Middle East. A sincere speech of regret from President Paul, and then outlying our new goals and policies. That approach might at least slow down the future of terrorism and hopefully bring some sort of humanity to both us and them. That is what I look forward to, and hope that you do too. Thank you for raising your concerns, because thinking about these sort of things is what makes Ron Paul supporters individuals, and other assorted supporters a 'collective force'. We care about the issues and that makes us larger than just a vote. We are a movement, a revolution. We need to keep thinking and working at it if we want to stay pure and strong. Ron Paul '08, I hope that you agree Damn It.
 
Here is my responce.

#1 Amending the Constitution to end Birthright Citizenship
Legality - It's not anti-constitutional since amending is the legal way to change the constitution.

Morality - The problem as I see it right now is that this country has become a welfare state. We can't survive this way with our own people and if we have open borders we definatly can't support all of the people who would like to come here. If we eliminate the welfare state then having very lax immigration if fine. It will take time to eliminate the welfare state since so many are dependent on it so we have to control immigration.

Another problem with open borders is because we have elections. If anyone can come no questions asked then we can easily be overrun and people would vote for similar laws as they had back home. I can see this now even between states. I live in Flordia for more then 10 years. I moved here to get away from high taxes and a nanny state in New Jersey. I've noticed more notherners move here recently for the same reason. But now that they are here they vote to raise taxes and want more services. Soon it will be like New Jersey here and I'll have to leave again.

#2 Vistas from "terrorist sponcering nations"

I somewhat agree with you here. I don't see why for those nations we can't just be a bit more careful selecting students to weed out radicals. But it doesn't really matter since once we implement Dr. Paul's foriegn policy of non-interventionalism we will be less likely to have enemies.
 
His Stand is nothing New

He has written on this issue, and there may be earlier writings on his views on this, but the one I saw, that states everything you are not happy with, was written May 2007.

He hasn't changed on anything. Possibly you just weren't aware?

This doesn't mean that your opinion is wrong....just pointing out that he's stood with this stance for some time.

Now that I am seeing the actual wording of the Constitution and the Ammendment, it does not look like he's being selective....He follows the Constitution as he's always said.

Ok, now I'm confused....is this a bill that he wants to pass? When was it written? When was it submitted to Congress?
 
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All,

I need to tell you, my fellow Ron Paul supporters, that I am seriously considering jumping ship to support another candidate over this latest campaign ad.

1) Its racist. Paul himself has said that policies like the war on drugs which target groups, rather than types of individuals are inherently improper. He said this at the morgan state debate and in his writings. Targeting birthright citizenship and student loans from "terrorist nations" means that minorities and people who are unfortunate enough to be born in the middle east will be excluded from the American dream. - In good conscience I can't support that. If you believe in human rights, you shouldn't also support de-facto race based policies like that.

2) It make Paul look like a flip flopper. Why should Paul call himself a constitutionalist when his support for the constitution is selective? Birthright citizenship is guarateed under the 14th amendment to the constitution.

3) It alienated moderates. Why should I support Paul for his anti-war and fiscal prudence stance when I can get the same stuff from liberals like Obama without the racist baggage? I'm a moderate, this alienates me. It also makes it harder for me to sell Ron to other democrats.

4) We don't need to change policies to win. Ron has already gotten a ton of support from former Tancredo people with his stance on border security. - Why bust out with this no student visas stuff now?

5) Its stupid. Terrorism is a function of being politicized and having resources. Its a phenomenon which crosses boundaries. Its not just limited to the middle east. If you know anything about terrorism, this seems painfully obvious. Up till now, the paul campaign has been smart about terrorism, but this policy won't help protect america from terrorism.

Damn it.

Yep you're right. Ron Paul is not a good enough Socialist for you. Find someone else.
 
Moderators: Please Kill This Thread

Yep you're right. Ron Paul is not a good enough Socialist for you. Find someone else.

The problem this supporter had has been resolved for several days. Let's not start this up again.

We need to join together as a force that can't be torn apart.
 
Paul openly acknowledges that changing birthright citizenship will require a new amendment.

Since the Constitution contains a mechanism for amending itself, advocating an amendment cannot be anti-Constitutional.

The Bill of Rights are all amendments, after all.

It's too easy to travel from country to country now for birthright citizenship.

+1
 
I agree with you on the birthright citizenship thats kinda messed up. Another thing is the abortion rights, its a womans choice.
 
No one should profit from an illegal act. Illegals offspring should not get birthrights.
 
I watched the new ad and it didn't really bother me to be honest.

You just have to view it in the context of television spot... I take it as a bit of political pandering which I'm willing to let slide for the time being. People have been conditioned to be hysterical about the prospect of more terrorism, and this sort of conditioning is difficult to reverse in 30 seconds.

Also remember Ron Paul wants to end birthright citizenship as a policy position.


And it's not always easy to please everybody on the issues. Just do whatever necessary to get Ron Paul's message across!
 
this is such BS. Why are we bothering with trying to convince this guy? If hes a pussy who gets offended by the word terrrorist just
let him go
 
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