I am pissed off.

[jimreport]

All,

I need to tell you, my fellow Ron Paul supporters, that I am seriously considering jumping ship to support another candidate over this latest campaign ad.

1) Its racist. Paul himself has said that policies like the war on drugs which target groups, rather than types of individuals are inherently improper. He said this at the morgan state debate and in his writings. Targeting birthright citizenship and student loans from "terrorist nations" means that minorities and people who are unfortunate enough to be born in the middle east will be excluded from the American dream. - In good conscience I can't support that. If you believe in human rights, you shouldn't also support de-facto race based policies like that.

2) It make Paul look like a flip flopper. Why should Paul call himself a constitutionalist when his support for the constitution is selective? Birthright citizenship is guarateed under the 14th amendment to the constitution.

3) It alienated moderates. Why should I support Paul for his anti-war and fiscal prudence stance when I can get the same stuff from liberals like Obama without the racist baggage? I'm a moderate, this alienates me. It also makes it harder for me to sell Ron to other democrats.

4) We don't need to change policies to win. Ron has already gotten a ton of support from former Tancredo people with his stance on border security. - Why bust out with this no student visas stuff now?

5) Its stupid. Terrorism is a function of being politicized and having resources. Its a phenomenon which crosses boundaries. Its not just limited to the middle east. If you know anything about terrorism, this seems painfully obvious. Up till now, the paul campaign has been smart about terrorism, but this policy won't help protect america from terrorism.

Damn it.

It is impossible for Ron Paul to be a racist. A racist deems themselves to be superior and has a desire to rule over the race that they deem to be inferior. I haven't seen Ron Paul speak of ruling over anyone. He speaks of removing rules, returning to self rule and personal liberty. He is the polar opposite of a racist.

And your buddy Obama is racist when he makes statements like "Old Mitt" and desires to rule over and redistribute wealth from the evil "good old boys" like Old Mitt, to all the poor little citizens who apparently cannot rule over their own lives.

rac·ism /ˈreɪsɪzəm/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[rey-siz-uhm] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.

 

[peruvianRP]

There is more detailed than the ad says. Then again remember than 911 hijackers came with students visas. So we need to reform that.

In a 30 secs ad you can explain your position. go to ronpaul2008.com and look at the issue closely.

 

[Corydoras]

There is more detailed than the ad says. Then again remember than 911 hijackers came with students visas. So we need to reform that.

I back the ad and the proposal about visas for students from state sponsors of terrorism, but fact is that only one of the hijackers had a student visa. The others were on business or tourism visas.

 

[eaglescout]

You start another thread on this exact same subject, and you float around re-starting similar type threads that were long forgotten. All your postings since joining the forum have been on this subject.

People might think you have some kind of an agenda.

Of course I have an agenda. The ad is sensational, irrational, and I strongly disapprove of it.

Sorry if I don't compromise my own values. I usually post to facebook. But I'm so outraged I chose to post here too.

What's your agenda? Are you shilling for Giuliani?

 

[thisisgiparti]

nice to see the pissy pants liberal whiners coming out in full force to bitch and moan right before the primaries. we know you're all loyal Ron Paul supporters. that's why you're on a single issue that comes as little surprise to anyone that's ever read up on the good doctor.

"ooh, I'm so mad!" go bother someone else with that noise. it's been explained one hundred thousand times. if you can't read, I doubt you'll vote. if you're so open borders, I bet you're voting for any of the dozen other chuckleheads running.

 

[eaglescout]

nice to see the pissy pants liberal whiners coming out in full force to bitch and moan right before the primaries. we know you're all loyal Ron Paul supporters. that's why you're on a single issue that comes as little surprise to anyone that's ever read up on the good doctor.

"ooh, I'm so mad!" go bother someone else with that noise. it's been explained one hundred thousand times. if you can't read, I doubt you'll vote. if you're so open borders, I bet you're voting for any of the dozen other chuckleheads running.

What?

 

[ronpvoter]

I'm sorry James about the ad. Some have speculated that a neocon has infiltrated the campaign and is trying to get at all the money raised.

My opinion is that, should Dr. Paul get elected and the foreign policy be changed to what he's running on, then there very well would be absolutely ZERO countries on the terrorist watch list. He has spoken in recent interviews (including Meet the Press) about wanting to clarify the 14th Amendment even if it requires an additional constitutional amendment. His feeling is that clarification is necessary regarding birth right.

Hopefully you will understand that many of Dr. Paul's supporters don't agree with his platform 100% but that he addresses issues the others don't and should he become President, things in this country will get better not just for the nation as a whole, but each individual. Please re-read his statements on RonPaul2008.com regarding racism and you'll see the man is not a racist. It's probably another campaign person mismanaging the money through pandering to what Dr. Paul himself has called a "shrinking base."

 

[Liberty Star]

I'm sorry James about the ad. Some have speculated that a neocon has infiltrated the campaign and is trying to get at all the money raised.

My opinion is that, should Dr. Paul get elected and the foreign policy be changed to what he's running on, then there very well would be absolutely ZERO countries on the terrorist watch list. He has spoken in recent interviews (including Meet the Press) about wanting to clarify the 14th Amendment even if it requires an additional constitutional amendment. His feeling is that clarification is necessary regarding birth right.

Hopefully you will understand that many of Dr. Paul's supporters don't agree with his platform 100% but that he addresses issues the others don't and should he become President, things in this country will get better not just for the nation as a whole, but each individual. Please re-read his statements on RonPaul2008.com regarding racism and you'll see the man is not a racist. It's probably another campaign person mismanaging the money through pandering to what Dr. Paul himself has called a "shrinking base."

I was little perturbed too after I first saw the ad but have decided to ignore it as a campaign mishap in a charged political atmosphere. It became easy to do so after looking at the bigger picture.

 

[Liberty Star]

For what it's worth:

I have also been pretty conflicted about the message of the recent controversial ad. Having been invested in this campaign like many of you for some time now, I went back and watched again some of Ron Paul's videos and policy statements on foreign policy, war, liberties issues and hard to miss a conviction there for which we have come to admire Ron Paul and that is not consistent with tone of this ad. This ad seems to be a campaign slip up to lure some votes and it shows Ron Paul campaign is not perfect. I suggest we treat it as such and file it under 'campaign slip ups' (unless of course campaign gives us another reason and puts out another ad like this). Let's focus on the truly magnificent message that Ron Paul has articulated himself in his own words and that differentiates him from rest of the candidates who will basically keep status quo in foreign and domestic policies. Ron Paul was one of the very few leaders who had the foresight and courage to stand up and oppose Iraq war when it wasn't fashionable to do so. I say we ignore this one ad and give the good doctor's official campaign benefit of the doubt. There is no better candidate out there all things considered, let's continue to fully support Ron Paul at this critical time to make things better in America and in the World.

 

[Kruniac]

What are you talking about?

I do not support group polics. I support group blind politics. To say I have no idea what I'm talking about it ridiculous.

If we really wanted group blind politics then we'd have them. For example, the current stance on student loans is race based. - Right, most countries on the "terror" watch list are arabs.

But, why not make a list of known terrorist and check student visa applications aginst it? That would be 1) probably more effective and 2) not race based. The current proposal is racist in that it targets arabs. If we really want to live in a color blind society and I would argue thats part of the magic of the american dream, then we'd screen for terrorist using intelligence and scientifically based risk factors - not racial or country profiling which are basically the same thing.

The fact that the student visa proposal is based on race, is very problematic in my view.

Have you considered that the nations to which these terrorists belong may support their actions in the United States due to political or religion persuasion? In other words, they can get new identities for the right amount of money/prestige/religious pressure.

Getting rid of Visas from terror-supporting countries eliminates this problem. Lets assume that we have a history of white English terrorists. Would you speak up for them if England were put on the "no-visa" list?

What about Japan?

Its important to understand that not every muslim is a terrorist, and not every arab is a terrorist, but to actually try and defend foreign nation's political integrity (Particularly when we have so little of our own in THIS nation), is just a bit silly.

Personally, I understand your concerns, but most minorities are American first, <whatever> second. They'll see the reasoning behind such measures.


Thats my own two cents, anyway.

 

[PaleoForPaul]

1) Its racist. Paul himself has said that policies like the war on drugs which target groups, rather than types of individuals are inherently improper. He said this at the morgan state debate and in his writings. Targeting birthright citizenship and student loans from "terrorist nations" means that minorities and people who are unfortunate enough to be born in the middle east will be excluded from the American dream. - In good conscience I can't support that. If you believe in human rights, you shouldn't also support de-facto race based policies like that. .

It's common sense. Sorry you can't take it.

 

[LukeNM]

Who brought up this old crap?

 

[LinearChaos]

LOL. Long thread, but I really get a kick out of people who scream "Unconstitutional". Do you know what Constitutional means?

The Constitution can be amended for such things. One of Paul's major points, from my perspective, is that not only is the Constitution being ignored, but the processes and formatlities in it are being ignored as well, in favor of executive power.

If any of this stuff would happen, it would involve the Congress. If you think that the Congress won't be Dem and strongly opposing such a move, you're mistaken.

 

[Ozwest]

Give it a rest, for Christs sake!

 

[fortilite]

James is still an active member despite making a melodramatic "goodbye" post.

 

[james1844]

yeah, I kinda lost my cool, but I'm back and I'm praying for success in Iowa.

 

[Johncjackson]

Welcome back. I am right there with you on the criticisms, but let's just chalk it up to "doing politics" and look at the bigger picture.

 

[Brodown]

If this guy really thinks that ron paul is a racist then let him go vote for obama...there is enough flip flopping candidates we dont need flip flopping supporters in this campaign...this campaign is solid!!! i feel that people who cry racism at every instance are very weak in my opinion and are racists themselves for always thinking of race

 

[SgtBulldog]

Not sure if this was posted earlier, but here is the actual legislation:

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=hj110-46

JOINT RESOLUTION
Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States to deny United States citizenship to individuals born in the United States to parents who are neither United States citizens nor persons who owe permanent allegiance to the United States.

Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That the following article is proposed as an amendment to the Constitution of the United States, which shall be valid to all intents and purposes as part of the Constitution when ratified by the legislatures of three-fourths of the several States within seven years after the date of its submission for ratification:


`Article --

`Section 1. Any person born after the date of the ratification of this article to a mother and father, neither of whom is a citizen of the United States nor a person who owes permanent allegiance to the United States, shall not be a citizen of the United States or of any State solely by reason of birth in the United States.

`Section 2. The Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.'.

 

[Molly1]

You need to study the 14th amendment and its effects.

Find out why it was passed and by whom.