I am pissed off.

[Corydoras]

Every major incidence of civil disturbance in America's recent history has been the result of policing conflicts with minorities.

That's flat out not true.
Detroit got Devil's Night rioting for some years.
Boston in 2004 had Red Sox rioting in which a couple of people died.
San Bernardino 2006, a riot started at a punk rock concert and spread.

 

[Feelgood]

James, you are apparently either an idiot, or a troll. You will not be allowed to disrupt what Ron Paul has going on. Just all the sheer stupidity of your first post, is evidence enough, that youre either an idiot, or a troll. Any REAL Ron Paul supporter already knows everything you have posted about, is complete crap. You are either clueless as to what the Constitution actually says, or you are clueless as you why Ron Paul has said, what he has said in the ad, or youre just a complete dolt.

At any rate, this will be my final post to you on this topic. I would suggest you take your vote and give it to Hillary, whom you obviously really support.

Please take your troll bait elsewhere...

 

[majinkoola]

Regarding these policies being "racist," well, they aren't. Read this article:

http://www.ronpaullibrary.org/document.php?id=234

We did the same thing with Germany when we were at war with them.

 

[snaFU]

There is nothing racist about this proposition but I definitely think its crap. However its an ad that will appeal to the average ignorant Iowan so thats good news.



Also the OP needs to learn about the constitution.

 

[noztnac]

All,

I need to tell you, my fellow Ron Paul supporters, that I am seriously considering jumping ship to support another candidate over this latest campaign ad.

1) Its racist. Paul himself has said that policies like the war on drugs which target groups, rather than types of individuals are inherently improper. He said this at the morgan state debate and in his writings. Targeting birthright citizenship and student loans from "terrorist nations" means that minorities and people who are unfortunate enough to be born in the middle east will be excluded from the American dream. - In good conscience I can't support that. If you believe in human rights, you shouldn't also support de-facto race based policies like that.

2) It make Paul look like a flip flopper. Why should Paul call himself a constitutionalist when his support for the constitution is selective? Birthright citizenship is guarateed under the 14th amendment to the constitution.

3) It alienated moderates. Why should I support Paul for his anti-war and fiscal prudence stance when I can get the same stuff from liberals like Obama without the racist baggage? I'm a moderate, this alienates me. It also makes it harder for me to sell Ron to other democrats.

4) We don't need to change policies to win. Ron has already gotten a ton of support from former Tancredo people with his stance on border security. - Why bust out with this no student visas stuff now?

5) Its stupid. Terrorism is a function of being politicized and having resources. Its a phenomenon which crosses boundaries. Its not just limited to the middle east. If you know anything about terrorism, this seems painfully obvious. Up till now, the paul campaign has been smart about terrorism, but this policy won't help protect america from terrorism.

Damn it.

You are right but I don't think it is necessarily Ron Paul behind it. I do know that he wants to amend the constitution to change birthright citizenship and I support ammending it in such a way. But you are right on 1,3,4,and 5.

Still, all of the other candidates are far worse. If you do choose to leave you'll have to go democrat and that comes with its own baggage.

 

[thisisgiparti]

Freedom, I've been pulling for Paul for months here in DC, tons of email, going door to door, money, phone calls in support of Paul. I've used my time, as well as my personal and social capital to help Paul.

So, you can buzz off. I deserve to make my opinion known.

It's a good thing Ron Paul is running for the GOP, because it seems Democrats take exception to issues of sovereignty and national security.

 

[Corydoras]

He probably isn't around to read any of this. His last post was almost a full day ago, in a now-locked thread where he says he's leaving.

 

[Ilhaguru]

The ad is not race-based. There are many Arab countries out there that do not support terrorism. Just because you pass some sort of legislation making it more difficult for Saudis to come in the country doesn't make it anti-Arab, the Saudis are not the only Arabs.

 

[superschupp]

I think we should eliminate student visas all together! We should have only Visas. No special classes, no preferential treatment.

Peaceful people should be free to come and go as they please, subject only to our own population needs. Visas are needed to insure those coming and going are "Peaceful" Positive control of our boarders is what is needed. However, control of the boarder is not closing of the boarders. Frequently one is assumed to be the other and they are not necessarily interchangeable.

This proposal is simply Dr Paul's attempt at insuring that peaceful immigration is the order of the day. I submit that paying special attention to one class of visas is a poor substitute for scrutiny of all visa requests. Dr Paul is not perfect and neither are all his proposals, but he is not a racist.

 

[rexsolomon]

I agree completely with James.

"In-depth review of student visas from openly anti-American countries" is better.
"Apply the 'under the jurisdiction clause' of the birthright citizenship law" is better.
Even the introduction of the immigration ad is inconsistent.

Seems to me that the 'professional ad companies are LOBBYING after Dr. Paul's millions in donation money are taking him for a fool, secretly working for the benefit other candidates.

Since Ron Paul is matching Tancredo's message he will reap Tancredo's reward: speaking to four people in a room with 60 empty chairs.

 

[eaglescout]

Ernest,

I read Paul's webpage way back a few months ago. I also answered emails at HQ, I feel I'm farly well versed in his positions.

Frankly, the stance on student visas makes sense when you read it, but in the add, it totally screams xenophobic. Coming in light of the shit about Don Black, the Tara Thai thing, and in the context of the newsletter scandal, the criticsm of AIPAC as well as all the other shit thats giving people cause to think twice about Paul's views on race, then it makes him look xenophobic and plays into his critics hands.

Look, I hate the Patriot act, I hate the war on terror, but I also think Paul and the campaign are insufficently strong on the race issue. We live in a multiethnic society and need to recognize and respect the role and impact that has for the USA.

I'm surprised you are still being attacked for bringing up a legitimate issue. I have given plenty of time and support to Ron Paul's campaign. I've disagreed with him on some major issues, but continued to support him, because it's obvious that no one is going to agree with someone else 100%. But when he starts sounding like the ignorant idiots he has been speaking out against, especially if he opposes the war on terrorism and collectivism, then it's a legitimate question to want to find out why this ad sounds so xenophobic and ignorant. Especially the part about "terrorist nations".

I support Ron Paul because he doesn't use cheap rhetoric like "terrorist nations" to make his arguments. That's why this ad bothers me.

I too am pissed off.

I've been supporting Ron Paul longer than most of the clowns who are telling you to leave, so that pisses me off even more.

I support Ron Paul because he opposes the ignorant views of those who label other nations "terrorist nations".

Those who are criticizing you for disliking the ad are the kind of people Ron Paul has been speaking out against, so you are well justified in raising this issue. And I'm glad there are reasonable people like you and those of us who have been supporting Ron Paul from the beginning.

 

[eaglescout]

Wow, just wow. You really aren't a Ron Paul supporter if you're going to accuse Ron Paul of being racist.

You can take your vote and shove it. Go vote for Hillary, Huckabee, Obama, Giuliani, or one of those other idiots.

Don't be a retard; why would james go from a questionably racist candidate to someone even more racist?

I'm surprised to see people like bbachtung here. You are not really a Ron Paul supporter if you approve the kind of sensational scare tactics employed in the ad.

Why don't you go back to supporting Giuliani and Tancredo? The ad put out by the campaign suits them better.

 

[jabrownie]

Eaglescout, I'm agreeing with ya 100%.

We just need to send up a request to Dr. Paul to either fix or remove the ad. He's already taken the time to clarify that the ad doesn't properly reflect his position. It's just that in the process of shortening the add to a 30-second spot somebody shortened to much. No biggie. Ask Dr. Paul to fix or remove the ad and he probably will if it hasn't been done already (which might be the case given that it was just yesterday that somebody raised this issue to him). Anyways, that'll end this debate.

*Edit: bbachtung and everyone else, from what I understand James has been out busting his butt all over D.C. helping to get Dr. Paul elected. Nobody should be going personal against anyone here, especially not James.

 

[NeoconPaulsupporter]

Good ad. A nation harboring/supporting terrorists should have these types of restrictions leveled against it. Or, we could just authorize war by declaring it. We have a right and a constitutional path for doing so.

 

[eaglescout]

Ron Paul supporters who think we should give VISAS to terrorist nations are "STUCK ON STUPID."

I disagree with the ad, not because of immigration or visas.

I disagree with the ad because it makes Ron Paul sound like an ignorant xenophobic idiot who doesn't understand terrorism.

 

[braumstr]

I like the ad and agree with it. I think it makes Ron Paul look like the genius he is.

 

[NeoconPaulsupporter]

I think we should eliminate student visas all together! We should have only Visas. No special classes, no preferential treatment.

Peaceful people should be free to come and go as they please, subject only to our own population needs. Visas are needed to insure those coming and going are "Peaceful" Positive control of our boarders is what is needed. However, control of the boarder is not closing of the boarders. Frequently one is assumed to be the other and they are not necessarily interchangeable.

This proposal is simply Dr Paul's attempt at insuring that peaceful immigration is the order of the day. I submit that paying special attention to one class of visas is a poor substitute for scrutiny of all visa requests. Dr Paul is not perfect and neither are all his proposals, but he is not a racist.

That's a good point. Student visas are collectivist! They single out a group. Do away with Student visas. We must treat everyone as individuals in the visa process. Students should only be able to get a regular visa. It's discriminatory to non-students.

 

[Ozwest]

Why not put this in perspective?

I respect your right to disagree or dislike the ad, but endlessly carping on about a 30 second ad begins to look a little desperate after awhile.

Ron Paul is not a racist, and if this ad convinces you that he is, you are just plain over-sensitive.

Student visas, whilst important to some, is not the most pressing issue to the survival of man-kind, and if your support of Ron Paul hinges on this issue, you need to prioritize.

But by all means, continue talking in circles if it makes you feel better... Some people have moved on.

 

[eaglescout]

Why not put this in perspective?

I respect your right to disagree or dislike the ad, but endlessly carping on about a 30 second ad begins to look a little desperate after awhile.

Ron Paul is not a racist, and if this ad convinces you that he is, you are just plain over-sensitive.

Student visas, whilst important to some, is not the most pressing issue to the survival of man-kind, and if your support of Ron Paul hinges on this issue, you need to prioritize.

But by all means, continue talking in circles if it makes you feel better... Some people have moved on.

My support for Ron Paul doesn't hinge on visas or immigration. It hinges on the fact that he is not the neocon that the ad makes him out to be.

 

[Ozwest]

My support for Ron Paul doesn't hinge on visas or immigration. It hinges on the fact that he is not the neocon that the ad makes him out to be.

You start another thread on this exact same subject, and you float around re-starting similar type threads that were long forgotten. All your postings since joining the forum have been on this subject.

People might think you have some kind of an agenda.