I am pissed off.

[mbrebstock]

James, do you not see the satirical nature of "terrorist nations"? With Ron Paul as President, there are unlikely to be 'terrorist nations', in which case the issue of "student visas from terrorist nations" becomes moot.

here we are
this is the RON PAUL MESSAGE which unites us again.

 

[james1844]

Dude, we don't need this kind of xenophobic politicing to win. This is the reason why white supremacists like Paul and why we continally have problems with the racism charge. At this point I'm not entirely sure if its unfounded.

 

[Cali4RonPaul]

This thread equals way too long, numerous people making the same points while one fails to acknowledge any logic behind it. Agree to disagree, Dr. Paul cannot please everyone, but his ad whether you like it or not is appealing to our target voters as we are trying to win the republican nomination..

 

[bbachtung]

Dude, we don't need this kind of xenophobic politicing to win. This is the reason why white supremacists like Paul and why we continally have problems with the racism charge. At this point I'm not entirely sure if its unfounded.

Wow, just wow. You really aren't a Ron Paul supporter if you're going to accuse Ron Paul of being racist.

You can take your vote and shove it. Go vote for Hillary, Huckabee, Obama, Giuliani, or one of those other idiots.

 

[Cali4RonPaul]

Wow, just wow. You really aren't a Ron Paul supporter if you're going to accuse Ron Paul of being racist.

You can take your vote and shove it. Go vote for Hillary, Huckabee, Obama, Giuliani, or one of those other idiots.

Ouch thats putting it bluntly.

 

[khorbis]

Everyone has their concerns about Dr. Paul.

My family in SC is bascially on welfare, so I'M concerned that some of Ron Paul's dismanting of government health departments (if in actuality, not philosophically) will hurt them financially.

So, hey, I can understand your concerns. I just remember the "Big Picture" here. What are we fighting for? Government tyranny, financial independence, an end to meritless wars, etc. etc.?

Ron Paul, too, needs to win in actuality. It might mean hurting some people. It is one of the many self-sacrifices we must make to see Ron Paul get rid of the things that hurt US ALL! I'm sure we all know what those "things" are. So please James, do not judge Ron Paul for the sacrifices HE must makes sometimes. We should know by now that there isn't a racist microbe in Ron Paul's body.

Be strong. Stay with us, and we will stay with you. Ron Paul is more than a man, he is the ideologic archetype of the "Free Man."

 

[james1844]

Wow, just wow. You really aren't a Ron Paul supporter if you're going to accuse Ron Paul of being racist.

You can take your vote and shove it. Go vote for Hillary, Huckabee, Obama, Giuliani, or one of those other idiots.

Bbachtung,

As I said earlier, I am one of Paul's biggest supporters. I've given his campaign hundreds of dollars, make countless phone calls, knocked on doors, waived signs, made signs, gone to rallies, made hundreds of emails.

Please don't tell me to shove it, don't bellitle my bringing up a serious issue.

 

[ronpaul4pres]

The proposed policy is not racist in its intent, but it is in its effect

You can't call something racist unless that was its intent. Certain policies could have hidden racist agendas, but I see no hidden agenda. Unless you can prove a hidden agenda, you don't have grounds to call it racist.

...doesn't help with moderates or people like me who have african american family members and friends who are ethnic minorities.

Do you believe this policy will directly affect you, your family, or friends?

 

[james1844]

You can't call something racist unless that was its intent. Certain policies could have hidden racist agendas, but I see no hidden agenda. Unless you can prove a hidden agenda, you don't have grounds to call it racist.



Do you believe this policy will directly affect you, your family, or friends?

I think it will hurt Paul in the general election with the minority vote. It also personally conflicts with my values and makes me not want to support him.

 

[Ozwest]

Ron Pauls position on the issuance of visas is clear, thoughtful, and pragmatic.

He has never denied that terrorism exists and that it is a clear and present danger. This danger, as he convincingly argues, is due in large to the U.S. interventionist foreign policies which originated during World War I and have continued to this day.

Ron Paul seeks to reverse this trend by dismantling the long established policies of military occupation, foreign aid, and bully-boy diplomacy. This trend reversal is the first, and most important step, in alleviating the "breeding grounds" of middle eastern resentment and "fodder" for terrorist recruitment.

This change in foreign policy, whilst an important beginning, will not completely erase the resentment towards the U.S. and western nations. Western "meddling" in the Middle East has provided fertile ground for extremism, largely propagated in the madrasses which provide much of the educational infrastructure of the Middle East.

This extremism is unfortunately fact, and is largely bourne in the Middle East, which is also a fact. Is it therefore not prudent to more closely scrutinize visas issued to citizens from these nations? Ron Paul is not suggesting the elimination of visas issued to citizens of middle eastern origin, but rather a sensible, pragmatic aproach, based on the unfortunate "realities" of religious extremism, rather than "idealistic" notions.

 

[justatrey]

The proposed policy is not racist in its intent, but it is in its effect

Look, most of the "terrorist nations" are inhabited by people who are ethnically arab. Have a look at the CIA worldfactbook, census data, whatever. The policy would be overwhemingly applied to persons of arab descent. Thats a racially preferential policy. it may not be ment to be so, but it is in its effects.

It is true that the policy, if applied today would disproportionately affect people of arab descent. However, this is nothing more than coincidence. Ron Paul cannot help the fact that the countries currently supporting terrorism have arab citizens.

For example, I have heard that serial-killers are disproportionately white (no idea if this is true or not). If Ron Paul decides that all serial-killers in prison should be given the death penalty, you could argue that it is racist "in its effects". I know this is a bad example, but the point is that clearly there is nothing racist about it because it applies to all races! He cannot help the fact that at the moment, most of those affected would be white.

Also this kind of shit going out doesn't help with moderates or people like me who have african american family members and friends who are ethnic minorities.

America is multethnic society, like it or not. To win we need to be smart about this.

I'm Hispanic and consider myself a moderate also. I should also mention that I disagree with both proposed policies. I just don't see anything racist about either.

 

[ronpaul4pres]

I think it will hurt Paul in the general election with the minority vote. It also personally conflicts with my values and makes me not want to support him.

It would conflict with my values, too, if I thought it were racist. But, I don't see it as racist.

Perhaps you've experienced too many policies that had hidden racist agendas and only see this as the same kind of thing?

 

[mesler]

I think it will hurt Paul in the general election with the minority vote. It also personally conflicts with my values and makes me not want to support him.

I think your wrong. The people who are already here, legally, won't care. Their children will be citizens. I don't think it's the the big deal you're making it out to be. And you are out of line to call it racist.

 

[0zzy]

General election voters won't see this ad. They always come back to the center. More ads will be focused on the war and civil liberties.

 

[bbachtung]

Bbachtung,

As I said earlier, I am one of Paul's biggest supporters. I've given his campaign hundreds of dollars, make countless phone calls, knocked on doors, waived signs, made signs, gone to rallies, made hundreds of emails.

Please don't tell me to shove it, don't bellitle my bringing up a serious issue.

I told you to shove it because -- while disagreeing with the campaign is just fine -- you said that this commercial makes you think that the racism allegations against Ron Paul are true. That crosses the line with me, and I called you out on it.

Ron Paul wanting to keep Saudi Arabia from sending students to attend flight school (or college) in the United States isn't racist to me; 15 of the 19 hijackers on 9/11 were Saudis, yet Bush (who is in bed with the Saudi royal family) kisses the lips of the Saudi "government" (they are a repressive monarchy, certainly not a democracy), while Ron Paul is trying to keep potential terrorists out of America.

These are not family visas he is talking about, they are student visas. No one is being kept from their families by excluding people from countries with known terrorist ties from coming to the United States as adult students.

 

[Liberty Star]

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=748446&postcount=141


Ron Paul in his own words:

Ron Paul on the issues

Pass true immigration reform. The current system is incoherent and unfair. But current reform proposals would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country, according to the Heritage Foundation. This is insanity. Legal immigrants from all countries should face the same rules and waiting periods.

http://www.ronpaul2008.com/issues/border-security-and-immigration-reform/


I think that ad should be pulled from YT site as well as from any TV spots. You can't make everyone happy when you have such a big tent but you shouldn't compromise on key issues either.

 

[james1844]

It is true that the policy, if applied today would disproportionately affect people of arab descent. However, this is nothing more than coincidence. Ron Paul cannot help the fact that the countries currently supporting terrorism have arab citizens.

The country with the most terrorism is...take a guess.

India.

Why don't we issue a blanket denial to all indian visa applicants then?

The proposed policy is inherently anti-arab. Thats no way to win an election. We need to be smarter about racial issues to win.

 

[mesler]

It is true that the policy, if applied today would disproportionately affect people of arab descent. However, this is nothing more than coincidence. Ron Paul cannot help the fact that the countries currently supporting terrorism have arab citizens.

The country with the most terrorism is...take a guess.

India.

Why don't we issue a blanket denial to all indian visa applicants then?

The proposed policy is inherently anti-arab. Thats no way to win an election. We need to be smarter about racial issues to win.

14/19 hijackers were Saudi. How many were Indian?

 

[james1844]

I told you to shove it because -- while disagreeing with the campaign is just fine -- you said that this commercial makes you think that the racism allegations against Ron Paul are true. That crosses the line with me, and I called you out on it.

Ron Paul wanting to keep Saudi Arabia from sending students to attend flight school (or college) in the United States isn't racist to me; 15 of the 19 hijackers on 9/11 were Saudis, yet Bush (who is in bed with the Saudi royal family) kisses the lips of the Saudi "government" (they are a repressive monarchy, certainly not a democracy), while Ron Paul is trying to keep potential terrorists out of America.

These are not family visas he is talking about, they are student visas. No one is being kept from their families by excluding people from countries with known terrorist ties from coming to the United States as adult students.

It does make me wonder whether Paul actually is a racist.

Think about the history of the united states over the past 30 years. The civil rights era, womens rights, the due processes revolution, the LA Riots, the 1964 voting rights act, correction and crime policy, everything - Race has been a HUGE issue in politics. Some people on this board don't seem to grasp how much racial issues have impacted American history.

 

[justatrey]

The country with the most terrorism is...take a guess.

India.

Why don't we issue a blanket denial to all indian visa applicants then?

The proposed policy is inherently anti-arab. Thats no way to win an election. We need to be smarter about racial issues to win.

I believe Ron Paul is only concerned about countries that support terrorism against the U.S.