How "real" is Obama?

[rodent]

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[bc2208]

""

 

[humanic]

Obama's foreign policy advisor, Zbigniew Brzezinski, is a co-founder of the Trilateral Commission, CFR member, and Bilderberger. Learn about him.

From DEMOCRACY NOW [1/3/08]:

ALLAN NAIRN: Well, Obama’s top adviser is Zbigniew Brzezinski. Brzezinski gave an interview to the French press a number of years ago where he boasted about the fact that it was he who created the whole Afghan jihadi movement, the movement that produced Osama bin Laden. And he was asked by the interviewer, “Well, don’t you think this might have had some bad consequences?” And Brzezinski replied, “Absolutely not. It was definitely worth it, because we were going after the Soviets. We were getting the Soviets.” Another top Obama person—

AMY GOODMAN: I think his comment actually was, “What’s a few riled-up Muslims?” And this, that whole idea of blowback, the idea of arming, financing, training the Mujahideen in Afghanistan to fight the Soviets, including Osama bin Laden, and then when they’re done with the Soviets, they set their sights, well, on the United States.

ALLAN NAIRN: Right. And later, during Bill Clinton’s administration, during the Bosnia killing, the US actually flew some of the Afghan Mujahideen, the early al-Qaeda people—the US actually arranged for them to be flown from there to Bosnia to fight on the Muslim/NATO side.

Mike Ruppert gives a lecture on Zbigniew Brzezinski:
PART 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qsDjUWKOHQ
PART 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I65v_B5trGs

 

[quantized]

I see Obama as the lesser of evil of the Obama/McCain/Hillary pack. How authentic is Obama? Definitely not as half authentic as Ron Paul. He is the more or less usual breed of politicians, not the Ron Paul kind.

But i give him credit for having the foresight to see that the iraq war was a mistake and spoke against it on the very start and he genuinely understands that the iraq war is flawed. i give him credit for the legislations he passed to restrict lobbyist and bundlers on Washington politics. i give him credit for uniting the country especially in times where america is so divided, also despite his message of hope is many a times too idealistic but one have to admit that all great changes in this nation begins with a dreamer with many skeptics mocking the dreamer and holding on to staus quo.

Many here also warned about his liberal ideas. But to me, liberalism vs conservatism are ideals left for the academias to argue. There is nothing evil per say with the doctrine of liberalism (which by today standard have deviated so much from the classical liberalism), and any forms of ideals pushed to extremism will become evil. E.g. Universal healthcare is not evil. We have to admit that there are country which implemented successful universal healthcare, do a wiki search of this and you see for yourself.

I would choose Obama over Hillary/McCain. I have enough of the Clinton secretive administration. I do not want a McCain administration which is in essence a continuation of Bush. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!

 

[rodent]

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[rodent]

Don't forget Obama's Pakistan remarks - that's a very dangerous situation. Also consider he will be advised by CFR and the like. The drug war won't end, the war won't end, and the size of government will rise. This is all campaign rhetoric. Obama may be the lesser of two evils, but I don't want a Category 4 hurricane any more than I want a Category 5 hurricane.

Vote FOR something. Vote FOR Ron Paul.

I can't vote for him if he's not on the ballot. Look, I am not going to write-in a candidate. That really is throwing the vote away. If Paul is on my ballot, I will vote for him. I'm not going to be so insane as to throw away a vote if the polls show a narrow margin between Obama and McInsane.

John McCain is an absolute traitor, unrepublican, and a war monger. Obama, sad as this may sound, is more fiscally conservative than McCain.

 

[chelu]

Obama united the country? I keep hearing this "Obama is less evil than..." stuff. If you go by the issues, what's the differences? Obama was against the Iraq War from the start? what does that even mean? was he against the Gulf War? This crap about how his war position differs from Hillary's is the same b.s. as McCain & Romney when they had their "silly argument" about who said what when. Barack has never really won an election. He was on the verge of getting his ass spanked until his opponent's scandal. If Obama said he was for the 2002 invasion at the time, what would have been the consequences of it, at that time? probably nothing, because he was a complete nobody with a mediocre record in a State legislature.

I have a friend who supposedly would like to see Ron Paul win, but then says if the Dr. doesn't make it, he would go "all-out" Obama, because he likes Obama's healthcare plan! Even as opposed to Hillary's because Obama, of all things, goes "more into detail"!!! All I could do is shake my head and sit there flabbergasted, which is also my same reaction when I see the hypnotized masses at Obama speeches, cheering mindlessly over plagiarizing Einstein, and Dr. Seuss one-liners.

 

[rodent]

Obama united the country? I keep hearing this "Obama is less evil than..." stuff. If you go by the issues, what's the differences? Obama was against the Iraq War from the start? what does that even mean? was he against the Gulf War? This crap about how his war position differs from Hillary's is the same b.s. as McCain & Romney when they had their "silly argument" about who said what when. Barack has never really won an election. He was on the verge of getting his ass spanked until his opponent's scandal. If Obama said he was for the 2002 invasion at the time, what would have been the consequences of it, at that time? probably nothing, because he was a complete nobody with a mediocre record in a State legislature.

I have a friend who supposedly would like to see Ron Paul win, but then says if the Dr. doesn't make it, he would go "all-out" Obama, because he likes Obama's healthcare plan! Even as opposed to Hillary's because Obama, of all things, goes "more into detail"!!! All I could do is shake my head and sit there flabbergasted, which is also my same reaction when I see the hypnotized masses at Obama speeches, cheering mindlessly over plagiarizing Einstein, and Dr. Seuss one-liners.

You're right, but you haven't really addressed how much of an idiot McCain is. How do we avoid him?

 

[bucfish]

Obama's wife Michelle is on the board of Chicago Council on Global Affairs (Which is a arm of the CFR) He is but one of their "puppet" candidates.

 

[chelu]

I can't vote for him if he's not on the ballot. Look, I am not going to write-in a candidate. That really is throwing the vote away. If Paul is on my ballot, I will vote for him. I'm not going to be so insane as to throw away a vote if the polls show a narrow margin between Obama and McInsane.

John McCain is an absolute traitor, unrepublican, and a war monger. Obama, sad as this may sound, is more fiscally conservative than McCain.

First of all Obama's proposals, would be add up to the biggest increase to spending, compared with the rest of the field, and even some who recently dropped out. There goes that "more fiscally conservative" myth. Secondly, "throwing the vote away"? I would rather "waste" my vote, then to be responsible for giving my approval to the next leader who would be, "so insane" to commit more American lives to fight in needless, endless wars, and wouldn't mind "waste" and "throw away" innocent civilians in the process.

But hey that's just me, others might be okay with blood on their hands.

 

[quantized]

Obama was against the Iraq War from the start? what does that even mean?

Deny all you want. But nothing can change the fact that he did give his anti-iraq war speech in 2002.
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Barack_Obama's_Iraq_Speech
And in the speech, he did demonstrate his foresight i.e.
"But I also know that Saddam poses no imminent and direct threat to the United States, or to his neighbors, that the Iraqi economy is in shambles, that the Iraqi military a fraction of its former strength"
"You want a fight, President Bush? Let’s finish the fight with Bin Laden and al-Qaeda, through effective, coordinated intelligence, and a shutting down of the financial networks that support terrorism, and a homeland security program that involves more than color-coded warnings."
"strengthen the recruitment arm of al-Qaeda,"

Compare this with Ron Paul's speech
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Ron_Paul's_Iraq_Speech

At least learn to give credit when its due.

 

[rodent]

..

 

[chelu]

You're right, but you haven't really addressed how much of an idiot McCain is. How do we avoid him?

It doesn't matter how you jump off a mile-high cliff, you end up in the same place. McCain would bankrupt us through warfare, Obama would destroy the currency through welfare. McCain would keep the troops in Iraq's permanent bases, Obama would do that too and "protect" the embassy/crusader castle. McCain would start a new war in Iran if he had the chance, Obama would hit them with nukes just as soon as McCain would. McCain promises new wars, Obama wouldn't hesistate to start a new one in Pakistan, or get involved in Sudan, or Kenya, or Jupiter. It just goes on-and-on between these two, and even Hillary included, when it comes to foreign policy, monetary policy, basic civil liberties, etc... Forgive me if I fail to see what the difference between them is, on the issues that really matter, the ones with lives in the balance. Not frivilous issues like who supports funding for a Woodstock museum and who doesn't.

If Obama turns out to be the "real" deal, I'll go to great lengths to shame myself, and I would looooove to be completely wrong on him. But if not, we know where McCain stands, so if this really is going to be the start of a disaster, a part of me would rather have McCain just to get it over with. With the Dems it would take forever, with McCain we could just reinstate the draft, go after the boogeymen in caves, go full-blown security state, ya know the works. At least there won't be all the two-faced crap if Obama or Hillary were the president.

 

[quantized]

First of all Obama's proposals, would be add up to the biggest increase to spending, compared with the rest of the field, and even some who recently dropped out. There goes that "more fiscally conservative" myth. Secondly, "throwing the vote away"? I would rather "waste" my vote, then to be responsible for giving my approval to the next leader who would be, "so insane" to commit more American lives to fight in needless, endless wars, and wouldn't mind "waste" and "throw away" innocent civilians in the process.

But hey that's just me, others might be okay with blood on their hands.

I cannot see how one can be antiwar and just sit by and let McCain a war monger win the election. This completely baffles me! If McCain is really the candidate, be prepared to get your hands stained with blood because he will draft us to war.

 

[chelu]

Deny all you want. But nothing can change the fact that he did give his anti-iraq war speech in 2002.

At least learn to give credit when its due.

Like Chris Rock said, You don't get credit for the sh*t you're supposed to do. Fact is he may have said this and that, but what actions did he take, he didn't have to take action on the measure that directly led to the war. I don't really put much weight into his little speech there because it reminds me of all the Republicans who spoke out against Clinton's overseas interventions. We now know that was all talk, in part because it was the other party in charge of the war. I have never once heard Obama say the words "we should declare war", I haven't heard him rule out pre-emptive war, I haven't heard him fully promise to pull out the troops before his first term. And all this while he continues to approve of keeping the war going, the one he was supposedly against. Yea I sure trust the guy who continues to fund the war, except for that ONE time when he and Hillary both voted against funding, purely for political theater.

 

[quantized]

It doesn't matter how you jump off a mile-high cliff, you end up in the same place. McCain would bankrupt us through warfare, Obama would destroy the currency through welfare.

yes, the former is jumping off the cliff, where the latter is climbing down a cliff, a cliff that people had successfully surmounted it. Do a search on wiki "universal healthcare" and see for yourself how many countries in the world had successfully implemented it. Surprising? Universal healthcare is possible if we figured out how these countries managed to do it. One thing for sure, the lobbyists must be expelled from our healthcare initiatives!

 

[chelu]

I cannot see how one can be antiwar and just sit by and let McCain a war monger win the election. This completely baffles me! If McCain is really the candidate, be prepared to get your hands stained with blood because he will draft us to war.

What baffles me is many think that McCain is the only pro-war candidate, and that Obama & Clinton aren't. I would expect this to be the case at DailyKos or HuffPo, but not so much here. I did not sit by and "let" McCain win. My conscience is clear, it's those who voted for the status-quo candidates who are morally responsible for whatever happens, and for the next 1.5 million civilians killed in Iraq.

 

[The_Ruffneck]

Deny all you want. But nothing can change the fact that he did give his anti-iraq war speech in 2002.
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Barack_Obama's_Iraq_Speech
And in the speech, he did demonstrate his foresight i.e.
"But I also know that Saddam poses no imminent and direct threat to the United States, or to his neighbors, that the Iraqi economy is in shambles, that the Iraqi military a fraction of its former strength"
"You want a fight, President Bush? Let’s finish the fight with Bin Laden and al-Qaeda, through effective, coordinated intelligence, and a shutting down of the financial networks that support terrorism, and a homeland security program that involves more than color-coded warnings."
"strengthen the recruitment arm of al-Qaeda,"

Compare this with Ron Paul's speech
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Ron_Paul's_Iraq_Speech

At least learn to give credit when its due.

How do you know that Obama isn't just pandering?
Like Paul always said Bush ran with a humble foreign policy - no nation building and look where the USA is at now.
Take anything the CFR stooge Obama says with a pinch of salt in my opinion and vote 3rd party.
Don't sell your soul to the devil by voting obama/mccain/hillary.

 

[quantized]

Like Chris Rock said, You don't get credit for the sh*t you're supposed to do. Fact is he may have said this and that, but what actions did he take, he didn't have to take action on the measure that directly led to the war. I don't really put much weight into his little speech there because it reminds me of all the Republicans who spoke out against Clinton's overseas interventions. We now know that was all talk, in part because it was the other party in charge of the war. I have never once heard Obama say the words "we should declare war", I haven't heard him rule out pre-emptive war, I haven't heard him fully promise to pull out the troops before his first term. And all this while he continues to approve of keeping the war going, the one he was supposedly against. Yea I sure trust the guy who continues to fund the war, except for that ONE time when he and Hillary both voted against funding, purely for political theater.

Funding of the troops while the troops is fighting a war is a very reasonable thing to do. i cannot penalize him for that. The fact still remains that he did spoke out against the war like Ron Paul did. To question what his true intention is for that anti-war speech is being skeptical for the sake of being skeptical. Who would you rather choose? A candidate who spoke out against the war but MIGHT actually continue the iraq war or a candidate who is self-confessed pro iraq war and PROMISED a continuation of the war and even a 100 years if needed? This is a no brainer!

 

[quantized]

What baffles me is many think that McCain is the only pro-war candidate, and that Obama & Clinton aren't. I would expect this to be the case at DailyKos or HuffPo, but not so much here. I did not sit by and "let" McCain win. My conscience is clear, it's those who voted for the status-quo candidates who are morally responsible for whatever happens, and for the next 1.5 million civilians killed in Iraq.

Then enlighten me. What other better way to prevent a McCain than to vote for the democratic candidate?