How real conspiracies are exposed

[jmdrake]

I didn't mean this story. I mean why can't they do it with newtown? Spend the time and resources to do what deadspin did to Manti and expose the newtown story for all to see. You do that and no one can question you. Just like no one is questioning the deadspin story.

But that kind of digging takes months and time and resources - you can't just pop a youtube video up two hours later and claim that people didn't cry enough.

Specifically which Alex Jones "Newtown" story are you referring to? Link please. I have seen stories from other sources posted on Infowars pointing out facts like there was a drill going on at a nearby school around the same time.

http://www.infowars.com/sandy-hook-...ent-raises-suspicion-of-false-flag-operation/

I do know near where I live there was some years ago such a mock drill where the students weren't told what was going on and were literally scared so bad they wet their pants. Could such a drill be a cover for something else? Who knows?

More than two people are involved in the Manti story.

Well you're the expert on conspiracies that don't matter.

A lot of things are afoot in the US government. But I'd want to see more than people not crying enough before I accuse them of lying and being actors when it is wholly possible those people just lost their kids. When people just lost their kids lives I'd like to be 100% sure before I open them up to harassment.

Again, link to the specific Alex Jones story. And again, what specific U.S. government conspiracy have you been willing to accept as at least plausible? And I don't mean something that everyone here accepts like the fed.

 

[jmdrake]

Show me the proof that 2 or more people were involved cos as far as I am concerned, the only thing we know for sure is that there is no girl friend. Everything else is CT style conjecture.

Good point. BlackTerrel where's your proof of conspiracy? Who are the other people involved? Name names and show your proof.

 

[juleswin]

The Tuiasosopo family as well, as well as a young female who is still not identified.

Point is it took respected journalists and investigators three months to blow this thing open with enough information and facts that no one could dispute it.

It took the Jones crew a couple hours because people didn't cry enough.

What if people suffered the worse experience any parent could ever have and they are then harassed and called names and Alex Jones is wrong? What then?

Again, all the state needs to do to squash the CT is for them to release the video tapes. But just like the birth certificate, the more time that is wasted the less likely the skeptics will believe it. One more thing with the birth certificate, Obama knew exactly what the birthers (one CT group am not part of) were asking for but he "withheld" this and continued showing the short form. He fueled the birther conspiracy for political gain and sure did he gain from it

 

[Danke]

Again, all the state needs to do to squash the CT is for them to release the video tapes. But just like the birth certificate, the more time that is wasted the less likely the skeptics will believe it. One more thing with the birth certificate, Obama knew exactly what the birthers (one CT group am not part of) were asking for but he "withheld" this and continued showing the short form. He fueled the birther conspiracy for political gain and sure did he gain from it

I'd still like to see his college transcripts.

 

[jmdrake]

The Tuiasosopo family as well, as well as a young female who is still not identified.

You're blaming some girl that hasn't even been identified as part of the conspiracy? How do you know she isn't just an unknowing victim who's picture got grabbed off of Flickr? You heartless conspiracy bastard!

 

[idiom]

If you "deny" looking into the money man of a crime, that is by fucking definition a cover up. It matters not why the "denial" is done.

Thats not the denial. The denial is of reality. Its not like Congress doesn't understand that Saudis fund terror, or that America can't sustain deficits, it is that Congress *Must* not understand it. There jobs depend on them not understanding it.

If Congress started acting competently then they would be voted out and replaced with politicians who agreed with the publics fantasy that there is a free lunch and that America can do no wrong.

A cover-up would be investigating the money men and 'discovering alternate facts'. They don't even bother to hide it. It just gets dismissed as immaterial.

 

[jmdrake]

Thats not the denial. The denial is of reality. Its not like Congress doesn't understand that Saudis fund terror, or that America can't sustain deficits, it is that Congress *Must* not understand it. There jobs depend on them not understanding it.

If Congress started acting competently then they would be voted out and replaced with politicians who agreed with the publics fantasy that there is a free lunch and that America can do no wrong.

A cover-up would be investigating the money men and 'discovering alternate facts'. They don't even bother to hide it. It just gets dismissed as immaterial.

The "public's fantasy" is shaped by the media. The media didn't have to act like there was nothing to see. Or did they? (Google Operation Mocking Bird. Another "conspiracy theory").

 

[idiom]

The "public's fantasy" is shaped by the media. The media didn't have to act like there was nothing to see. Or did they? (Google Operation Mocking Bird. Another "conspiracy theory").

The way CNN America reports is totally different from the way CNN International reports. American news media projects a reality bubble. Actually it projects several different ones simultaneously. Is this because American audiences reject reality or because the oligarchy that owns the media does? There is certainly documented evidence that the military and administration manipulate media and discussion boards. That is different to direct control.

Americans have access to CNN International, the BBC, Al Jazzera and others. How many watch these sources?

American largely love their alternate reality. They eat up the red vs blue false political confrontations. Maybe its voluntary, maybe it coercive. Maybe its the flouride.

 

[Petar]

The way CNN America reports is totally different from the way CNN International reports. American news media projects a reality bubble. Actually it projects several different ones simultaneously. Is this because American audiences reject reality or because the oligarchy that owns the media does? There is certainly documented evidence that the military and administration manipulate media and discussion boards. That is different to direct control.

Americans have access to CNN International, the BBC, Al Jazzera and others. How many watch these sources?

American largely love their alternate reality. They eat up the red vs blue false political confrontations. Maybe its voluntary, maybe it coercive. Maybe its the flouride.

Maybe it's the kiwi juice.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Why can't Alex Jones do what deadspin did? Research it. Dig deep. Find the actors involved. Prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.

No one could read that deadspin article and still believe the original story. Why can't the infowars crew do the same?

They have, a number of times, the MIAC document comes right to mind.

 

[dbill27]

Almost every responder in this thread seems to have completely missed the OP's point. It is amusing that he seems to be warning about people jumping to conclusions to fast without taking the team to consider everything and instantly he's hit with people completely jumping to conclusions and putting words in his mouth. To read some of the responses you would think that BlackTerrel started a thread defending the official 9/11 and Bin Laden stories.

 

[dbill27]

Why can't Alex Jones do what deadspin did? Research it. Dig deep. Find the actors involved. Prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.

No one could read that deadspin article and still believe the original story. Why can't the infowars crew do the same?

You would think that if all these people are paid actors this would be so easy to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt in about five minutes. I mean, if these people are actors then in real life don't they have sisters, parents, cousins, former bosses, neighbors who could easily point out that they're lying?

 

[A Son of Liberty]

Almost every responder in this thread seems to have completely missed the OP's point. It is amusing that he seems to be warning about people jumping to conclusions to fast without taking the team to consider everything and instantly he's hit with people completely jumping to conclusions and putting words in his mouth. To read some of the responses you would think that BlackTerrel started a thread defending the official 9/11 and Bin Laden stories.

This.

Holy shit. I don't know much about the personalities, including BT, posting in this thread, so maybe there are some established track records here, but it seemed like an obvious, and well-made, point.

BT gave an example of a thorough piece of investigative journalism which arrived at an unassailable conclusion. What that story was, or who investigated it, wasn't consequential to the point. He then contrasted that with some "conspiracy theories" (for lack of a better phrase) which appear as from the ether mere moments after the event in question has occurred, and which raise questions (GRANTED - OFTEN FAIR ONES) rather than provide unassailable conclusions.

There is NOTHING wrong with raising those questions and pointing out inconsistencies, indeed. However, at some point, it would be GREAT to see those questions and inconsistencies actually chased down. Sandy Hook would seem to provide just such an opportunity. We heard that the father of one of the children was an actor. It would seem fairly basic and rather easy for a good investigative journalist to discover the truth of that claim. I saw talk in this very thread that the representative of James Holmes is supposedly playing the part of a Sandy Hook parent. Again, it would seem fairly basic and easy to discover the truth of that claim. Now, I don't know if Alex Jones has ever made either of those two particular claims, but it would seem well within his abilities, given his apparent budget and obvious manpower, to go and investigate them and bring back definitive, unassailable proof.

I'd very much like to see him do it.

Finally, it inevitably occurs that when a person questions the "conspiracy theory" (sic), that person is derided as gullible, or a toady, or blind or whatever. Quite the contrary. I, like A-F, automatically disbelieve whatever government and their media outlets tell me as a matter of course. That does not mean, however, that I automatically defer to whatever alternate stories emerge. In a way, the uninvestigated alternate explanations peddled by a media outlet like Jones' Info Wars are as much a disservice to public knowledge as whatever lies the government may be parrotting.

(fire away)

 

[pcosmar]

You would think that if all these people are paid actors this would be so easy to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt in about five minutes. I mean, if these people are actors then in real life don't they have sisters, parents, cousins, former bosses, neighbors who could easily point out that they're lying?

Not really, Cult communities close ranks to protect themselves.

It has happened before,, Satanic Cults and Pedophile rings have operated for years,, nearly in the open,, and protected by members in key positions.

USGOV does the same. The system will protect the system.

It is often years after that any truth comes out. and the story buried on the last page in small print.

 

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

A lot of things are afoot in the US government. But I'd want to see more than people not crying enough before I accuse them of lying and being actors when it is wholly possible those people just lost their kids. When people just lost their kids lives I'd like to be 100% sure before I open them up to harassment.

I agree, but they story is getting fishier and fishier. I'm actually shocked about the admission there was a swat team member crawling around the woods in camo. That admission was likely a huge mistake by someone.

I would like to see proof regarding the actors as well.

As far as "opening them up to harassment," that falls on people doing the harassing.

You're blaming some girl that hasn't even been identified as part of the conspiracy? How do you know she isn't just an unknowing victim who's picture got grabbed off of Flickr? You heartless conspiracy bastard!

It was some girl who had her images stolen, according to the article in the OP.

You would think that if all these people are paid actors this would be so easy to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt in about five minutes. I mean, if these people are actors then in real life don't they have sisters, parents, cousins, former bosses, neighbors who could easily point out that they're lying?

What if only a few of them are paid actors?

And yeah, more investigation is needed, but it starts with theories. This is also how homicide detectives solve crimes.

 

[KingNothing]

Not wanting do get difficult answers is not the same as proof of a conspiracy. The US has a tonne of two faced relationships that require actively maintaining blindness to tolerate. Most of these are known and well understood. The MSM will never call them out in an interview, because they will never get an interview again. The establishment ignores them because its the only way to get their job done. Maybe its a job they shouldn't be doing, but America votes consistently to maintain a two-faced foreign policy because it ensure cheap oil and that Americans don't have to work too hard.

Maybe before the investigation gets to the root cause, its gets as far as Michael Moore got, which was Saudi backing. Michael Moore got completely ignored because America *must not* be enemies with Saudi Arabia.

Denial is not the same as a cover-up although it leaves a trail of mistakes and hypocrisy and retracted statements which looks pretty similar.

Powerful post, my friend!

 

[jmdrake]

Powerful post, my friend!

Yes. Because any post that keeps you safely inside your false reality security blanket is "powerful".

 

[jmdrake]

The way CNN America reports is totally different from the way CNN International reports. American news media projects a reality bubble. Actually it projects several different ones simultaneously. Is this because American audiences reject reality or because the oligarchy that owns the media does? There is certainly documented evidence that the military and administration manipulate media and discussion boards. That is different to direct control.

Americans have access to CNN International, the BBC, Al Jazzera and others. How many watch these sources?

American largely love their alternate reality. They eat up the red vs blue false political confrontations. Maybe its voluntary, maybe it coercive. Maybe its the flouride.

Does it matter? It's still a cover up and it's disingenuous to call it anything else. And for the record the media has been putting out "alternative facts" as you put it. That's why so many people were convinced Saddam Hussein had something to do with 9/11. In fact the whole Bush "axis of evil" speech was part of the cover up. Prior to that, the Northern Alliance had blamed an "alliance of evil" for the death of their leader Shah Massoud. Their "alliance of evil" included Al Qaeda, the Taliban and the Pakistani ISI. The U.S. government had to distract people from the I.S.I. because the I.S.I. was too connected to the C.I.A. The truth is there if you want to see it. Or you can be like BlackTerrel and concern yourself with amateur football players' imaginary girlfriends.

 

[jmdrake]

Almost every responder in this thread seems to have completely missed the OP's point. It is amusing that he seems to be warning about people jumping to conclusions to fast without taking the team to consider everything and instantly he's hit with people completely jumping to conclusions and putting words in his mouth. To read some of the responses you would think that BlackTerrel started a thread defending the official 9/11 and Bin Laden stories.

Bollocks. A) The OP has a history of denying any conspiracy fact that is too uncomfortable for him and B) the OP has made this about Alex Jones even though Alex Jones isn't the main one pushing the Sandy Hook "it was all fake actors" story and he (BlackTerrel) has yet to link to the Alex Jones story on the subject that he claims to be talking about. And the very title "Real conspiracies" implies that all of the ones he doesn't sign onto (including 9/11) are "fake conspiracies". Sorry but you're off base in your analysis.

 

[jmdrake]

This.

Holy shit. I don't know much about the personalities, including BT, posting in this thread, so maybe there are some established track records here, but it seemed like an obvious, and well-made, point.

BT gave an example of a thorough piece of investigative journalism which arrived at an unassailable conclusion. What that story was, or who investigated it, wasn't consequential to the point. He then contrasted that with some "conspiracy theories" (for lack of a better phrase) which appear as from the ether mere moments after the event in question has occurred, and which raise questions (GRANTED - OFTEN FAIR ONES) rather than provide unassailable conclusions.

There is NOTHING wrong with raising those questions and pointing out inconsistencies, indeed. However, at some point, it would be GREAT to see those questions and inconsistencies actually chased down. Sandy Hook would seem to provide just such an opportunity. We heard that the father of one of the children was an actor. It would seem fairly basic and rather easy for a good investigative journalist to discover the truth of that claim. I saw talk in this very thread that the representative of James Holmes is supposedly playing the part of a Sandy Hook parent. Again, it would seem fairly basic and easy to discover the truth of that claim. Now, I don't know if Alex Jones has ever made either of those two particular claims, but it would seem well within his abilities, given his apparent budget and obvious manpower, to go and investigate them and bring back definitive, unassailable proof.

You are so stuck on defending BlackTerrel's point that you're ignoring the counterpoint being made. Alex Jones hasn't made Sandy Hook a priority. Yes it's covered it, but I've yet to see him come out with any "This is my definitive view of what happened at Sandy Hook" statement. Alex Jones has made definitive statements about other conspiracy theories. So to compare apples to apples you have to look at those theories. When Jones was on Piers Morgan he never said anything questioning the official story regarding Sandy Hook. He did, after Morgan brought it up, make points about what was wrong the the official 9/11 story. The OP was nothing but a red herring. I'm surprised you fell for it.