Help... 18 year old brother wants to join the military

[Hunter Gatherer]

long time lurker first post

First I would like to say thanks to everyone on the forum. The info that is here has changed my views of the world.

I don't throw around the word HERO that much but Ron Paul is one of mine, he is a superhero of the constitution. Dr. Paul got me intrested in politics during the primarys, and I've been on board since I heard and agreed with his message.


I've been lurking for a while now and havent posted till now. I have a problem. My younger brother just turned 18 and wants to join the military. Don't get me wrong I have nothing against the troops, just the people in charge of them.

I called him last night and asked him why he wants to join the military. He told me that he wants to join because of the physical training and the chance to go to any school in the country when he is done.

I was not to happy to here these reasons. I think he just wants to run away from my Dad, who is a little hard on em, but a fun loving father all in all (I was rebel to my dad at that age).

So i asked him if he knows anything about what he is signing up for. I asked him to tell me about the constitution. Freedom of speach is all he came up with. Thats when i got mad.

I told him how I don't believe in alot of what this goverment is doing atm. I told him that both wars are unconstitutional, how they did not go through congress.

I told him the suicide rate of soilders is staggering. Even military recruiters are feeling guilty.

I told him if china came here and had tanks rolling around our streets killing innocent women and children I would not stand for it! I would fight them till they got out of here.

I told him how this is not just a simple desicion. Its not like he is choosing what college to go to he is making a choice that will change his morals. I asked him what is he going to do when someone above him asked him to do something agaist the constitution, the document that he swore to uphold? What if someone tells him to do sometheing agaist his moralls?

I asked him if he believed in the bailouts the wars and what this goverment has been doing over the past ten years. He said he agree's with some of the choices.

So I need your help I don't want my nieve brother joining the military for the wrong reasons. I'm going to send him a loaded email this week backing up everything i've said and also any other good info that we can come up with.

Thanks
HG

edit for spelling, I'm bad at grammer

 

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

have him sign up for scholarships, there has to be some kind of scholarship he can apply for. If he can get a scholarship that pays for most of the first few semesters I'm sure that would be a good incentive. He can also go to community college for the first 2 years, the only real difference is community colleges are usually full of retired professors from the big schools

 

[legion]

make sure he understands just how boring war actually is.

99% of his time will be spent waiting for something to happen.

then when something finally does he will probably piss his pants it will be so terrifying.


YouTube - Entering a village in Iraq

YouTube - Normal boring patrol in iraq...

the above is what war really is. make sure he sits through these. only 5 minutes of footage in total but it says a lot

 

[ForLiberty-RonPaul]

you should contact Adam Kokesh. He might take the time to speak with your brother.

from www.kokeshforcongress.com

While Adam was attending the Native American Preparatory School in San Ysidro, New Mexico, one of his mentors was a former Marine Captain who inspired him to enlist in the United States Marine Corps at the age of seventeen. After graduation, he went to boot camp, an experience he has described as “an enjoyable challenge.” He completed Marine Combat Training at Camp Pendleton, the Cannon Crewman Course at Fort Sill, then reported to his reserve unit in Pico Rivera, California in order to attend Claremont McKenna College.

While majoring in Psychology and Government at CMC, Adam volunteered to go to Iraq in December of 2003. As a principled non-interventionist, he didn't think the war was going to be worth the cost or in America's best interest, but believed that after the invasion, rebuilding constituted a “responsible foreign policy.” After an arduous application process, Corporal Kokesh was accepted for transfer to the 3rd Civil Affairs Group. When he left for Iraq in February of 2004, he was enthusiastic about the mission, and believed that he would be risking his life to help the Iraqi people and make America safer.

During his service in Fallujah, Adam was promoted to Sergeant and awarded a Combat Action Ribbon and Navy Commendation Medal. But his frustration with getting the resources necessary for the Civil Affairs mission led him to question the premises of the occupation. After coming home and successfully dealing with post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), Adam took some time to gain perspective on his experience. He realized that, “the greatest enemies of the Constitution to which I swore an oath to support and defend, are not to be found in the sands of some far off land, but rather occupying the seats of power, right here at home!”

After receiving an honorable discharge in November of 2006, Adam moved to Washington, DC to pursue a master's degree in Political Management at George Washington University. Since then, he has taken it upon himself as an activist to continue to honor his oath to the Constitution and the principles of liberty behind it.

Adam is personally committed to using his life to make the world a better place. By speaking out, he is pulling people out of their bubbles where, “they don't consider things that don't immediately effect their quality of life or the moral implications of their actions.” Driven by a deep intolerance for injustice, Adam has also done extensive work to alleviate, minimize, and prevent the human suffering that inevitably arises from forceful government intervention.

In addition to addressing the kind of suffering he experienced first-hand in Fallujah, he has organized to help veterans struggling with PTSD, railed against 4th Amendment violations, and stood up against the Federal Reserve. He never loses sight of the long-term goal of inspiring a new commitment to the ideals of liberty so that we may embrace a truly free society in which the aggressive use of force is not tolerated, and the blessings of liberty are shared by all.

 

[Bruno]

you should contact Adam Kokesh. He might take the time to speak with your brother.

from www.kokeshforcongress.com

good suggestions above.

welcome, Hunter Gatherer. hope he doesn't join

 

[BenIsForRon]

You should probably get him to watch Why We Fight. I mean, I don't understand why anyone would join the military if they understand what the MIC is.

 

[amy31416]

I don't know if your brother is at all an introspective type, but I had considered joining the military when I was desperate to stay in college--I even went so far as to take all the tests (and of course, they schmoozed me by saying I scored off the charts and after basic training, I could go into intel--blah, blah, blah. They tried to appeal to my ego, which is generally pretty effective.)

Anyways, I took some time to think and asked myself if I could pull the trigger on a foreigner who'd done nothing to me, my friends or my family and was not an invader. Quite simply, the answer was no.

So I ended up working constantly and going into debt to go to college--it was the better decision for me.

 

[Bradley in DC]

Perhaps try to address his underlying concerns. More options are better than fewer options. If he thinks that that is his best option, that's one thing. If better options are presented, you wouldn't have to negatively attack his thinking.

(and it's "grammar")

 

[legion]

They tried to appeal to my ego, which is generally pretty effective.

yep. to the government everyone/thing is expendible.

 

[Andrew-Austin]

I called him last night and asked him why he wants to join the military. He told me that he wants to join because of the physical training and the chance to go to any school in the country when he is done.

Ask him what he is going to do once he enrolls in a college. Would the degree he would be aiming for actually land him a job? If joining the military is an objective in and of itself that is one thing. If its just a step to another step in order to reach a career objective then maybe you can get him to reconsider his plan.

 

[ForLiberty-RonPaul]

i hope your brother understands that military service is sacrifice. You don't receive, you give.

If the military was as attractive as the commercials and recruiters say, they wouldn't need commercials and recruiters (and bribes in the form of money, educational opportunities, etc). Make sure he is aware of what he will have to give up to serve his country by military means.

 

[paulitics]

long time lurker first post

First I would like to say thanks to everyone on the forum. The info that is here has changed my views of the world.

I don't throw around the word HERO that much but Ron Paul is one of mine, he is a superhero of the constitution. Dr. Paul got me intrested in politics during the primarys, and I've been on board since I heard and agreed with his message.


I've been lurking for a while now and havent posted till now. I have a problem. My younger brother just turned 18 and wants to join the military. Don't get me wrong I have nothing against the troops, just the people in charge of them.

I called him last night and asked him why he wants to join the military. He told me that he wants to join because of the physical training and the chance to go to any school in the country when he is done.

I was not to happy to here these reasons. I think he just wants to run away from my Dad, who is a little hard on em, but a fun loving father all in all (I was rebel to my dad at that age).

So i asked him if he knows anything about what he is signing up for. I asked him to tell me about the constitution. Freedom of speach is all he came up with. Thats when i got mad.

I told him how I don't believe in alot of what this goverment is doing atm. I told him that both wars are unconstitutional, how they did not go through congress.

I told him the suicide rate of soilders is staggering. Even military recruiters are feeling guilty.

I told him if china came here and had tanks rolling around our streets killing innocent women and children I would not stand for it! I would fight them till they got out of here.

I told him how this is not just a simple desicion. Its not like he is choosing what college to go to he is making a choice that will change his morals. I asked him what is he going to do when someone above him asked him to do something agaist the constitution, the document that he swore to uphold? What if someone tells him to do sometheing agaist his moralls?

I asked him if he believed in the bailouts the wars and what this goverment has been doing over the past ten years. He said he agree's with some of the choices.

So I need your help I don't want my nieve brother joining the military for the wrong reasons. I'm going to send him a loaded email this week backing up everything i've said and also any other good info that we can come up with.

Thanks
HG

edit for spelling, I'm bad at grammer

Most are aware of the risk to one's life, but not the risk to one's health.
Show him the facts on gulf war syndrome, post tramautic stress disorder, mortality rates, suicide rates, etc.

He will literally sign his life a way, and will be forced to take vaccines, potentially microchipped,guinni pigged, etc .

The government has declared returning vets a potential domestic terrorist (miac report), and wants to ban guns from those who have post tramautic stress disorder (which can be broadly and arbitrarely determined), or perhaps other issues the government doesn't like.

When he sign on the dotted line, he has given up all of his rights to a corrupt system that sees him as nothing more than a useful idiot.

I care about the miltary deeply (even though I don't supprot the wars), but if they serve, they should be treated better. This will not be the case any time soon.

 

[DamianTV]

I'd say go buy him a Hallmark card. One for the family that consoles them when they've lost a son due to a war, and give it to him personally.

 

[ForLiberty-RonPaul]

YouTube - Adam Kokesh on Blowback and July 4th

 

[Dianne]

Make sure he understands he is a patsy in a fake war. Osama Bin Laden has been dead since 2001.. This is all control crap to give us something to distract from the rape of America as we once knew it. Obama, Pelosi... the UN... Reid... Franks.... the entire Senate under UN control are here only to see our last breath...

If he wants to save the country, he needs to stand tall and proud on US soil... Here is where the real fight to save freedom will go down.

 

[Hunter Gatherer]

He is pretty book smart kid just has no commen sence. He is still a senior in HS and is a stud on the football team, starting both ways. He took 7th in state last year in div 1 wrestling, he is not my little brother he is my younger brother. I told him to wait a few years to make his decision, he might get a scholor ship from either wrestling or football. Plus he will get grants from our tribe. If he wants to be a humanitarian, we got an aunt that is a doctor in africa. Many of my family members have been to africa helping others in need.
Thanks for the info
HG

 

[Danke]

He could join ROTC in college and quit after a couple of years if he changes his mind.

 

[GBurr]

If your brother's reasons are for school finances and physical training then his reasons are really poor. The number of private scholarships in the country is staggering. Most of these aren't tapped by the majority of students because they just fill out there FAFSA and take their government and school aid. Private scholarships require extra work but in the long run you can pay for all of your schooling with just scholarships as long as you put in the time searching for scholarships.
Physical Training is something that any college student can do without a problem. The majority of the people on my college hall go to the gym 3 to 4 times a week. We also have several Kinesiology students that are more than happy to work out with groups from the hall (they have to clock a certain amount of time in the gym anyway for classes).

Make sure your brother understands that the sacrifices that he will be asked to make are nothing to shrug off. They are permanent. He could face DEATH. Is the physical training and school money really worth sacrificing at least 8 years of his life to the government.

He will be 25 before his commitment is up. He will then have to finish his education and start a career at the bottom rung of the ladder.

It doesn't even make financial sense. College is supposed to increase your earning ability for your lifetime but if you spend years of your life in the military before you get your diploma then you are forever handicapped by those lost years of production. Most likely your highest years of income will be the last years that you work. Since pay increases with time spent in a field your brother is not trading potential income from the time when he is lower on the advancement ladder what he will trade is the years at the highest level of the income ladder.

 

[A. Havnes]

I second the scholarship motion, as that's the route I'm taking. Check out Ben Kaplan's "How to Go to College Almost for Free". Because, really, if he's joining just for academic reasons, he might wind up disappointed. I know a guy who did that and they now refuse to pay for his schooling. I can't remember the exact reason they came up with, but it means that he spent all that time overseas fighting an undeclared war only to come back and find himself back where he was when he graduated from high school.

 

[GBurr]

Persons with the same degree and the same experience in a field are likely to earn similar amounts as long as they work just as hard. What that means is that if your brother begins work in a field at the age of 30 by the time he is ready to retire he will have 35 to 40 yrs of experience. If he goes to school immediately and begins work in his field at 23 then he will have 42 to 47 yrs of experience when he retires. The man with 42 to 47 yrs of experience is likely to be making much more than the man that has 35 to 40 yrs of experience. The man who began working in his field at an earlier age has a much larger chance for future prosperity just like the man who starts investing earlier will have more than in the end because his interest will compound at a greater rate. If someone invests $200 a month at 8.8% rate of return from the time he is 23 he will be a millionaire by the time he is 65 but if he starts investing at 30 he will only have about $514,000 by the time he is 65. Experience in a field is an investment that works the same way.There is no way that the military paying for college or the "experience" that one gains in the military will make up for the years of work that your brother will lose in his field.

The army loves to say in their ads that they prepare people for future careers. If they really prepare people well for future careers then why are so many Iraq vets unable to find employment. Why are so many working in private security for corporations like walmart instead of fulfilling their goals. The reason is that what you learned in the army for 8 yrs is not as valuable to employers as what the other guy learned in his chosen field for 8 yrs. 8yrs in the army is not equal to 8 yrs of experience in your chosen career field.

If these reasons don't convince your brother then try to get him to go into the air force or navy. Do whatever you can to keep him out of the army and marine corp.