Help... 18 year old brother wants to join the military

[dannno]

Perhaps he feels that is the correct decision.

Perhaps he does.. in which case he would still be uninformed..

 

[tangent4ronpaul]

There is a big difference between the different branches of the "military",

if you are going to be unable to keep him from joining, have him join the Air Force.

Also, there are two ways you can go in, one is with a specific job code and the other is under a "general category".

DO NOT LET HIM JOIN UNDER THE GENERAL CATEGORY METHOD
DO NOT LET HIM JOIN UNDER THE GENERAL CATEGORY METHOD
...

The Air Force is the best boot camp and easiest service.

If he has any interest in aviation, AF pilots get picked up as airline pilots - especially C-130, B-52, etc. Stay away from fighters - not a lot of civi jobs for fighter jocks and it's really easy to get dead in one.

Likewise, learn to maintain and repair aircraft. A&P's make good money and you aren't stationed too near hostilities.

Intelligence can be a good MOS, logistics and medical maybe - for the most part, you won't be near the war and will walk away with good, employable, skills.

If he learns a language that is NOT used in a hot zone, but somewhere where we have a base, there is a really good chance he will be assigned to where it's spoken.

Coast guard isn't bad, but units have been sent to the middle east to patrol the coasts - so might see combat.

-t

 

[tangent4ronpaul]

Sorry for using the word probably

How often do you hear of a firefighter being ordered to kill someone, for his job?

Never

How often do you hear about a cop being ordered to kill someone? (occasionaly, hence the use of the word, probably)

HRT sniper / SWAT team

How often do you hear about a soldier being ordered to kill someone?

Get it? got it? Good

Often!

-t

 

[Danke]

Stay away from fighters - not a lot of civi jobs for fighter jocks...
-t

LOL...wut?

 

[legion]

LOL...wut?

He's sort of right. You get an endorsement "centerline thrust only" on your FAA license if you're a fighter pilot.

its still a "cool" job to have it seems it would be more difficult to get a job as a fighter pilot than any other airframe...

this discussion isn't very helpful because his brother isnt going to be flying anything in the air force w/o college degree.

 

[JeNNiF00F00]

I would not let him become a cop either. They get asked to do all sorts of crazy and unconstitutional things too. He should not become a firefighter either. He might see some things like what is in those pictures.

Did I miss something? Are most libertarians against serving their community? When did "we are against interventionism and going to a war that is not in self defense" turn into anti-serving-your-country?

I'm not a libertarian, and I can tell you it has nothing to do with serving your community. Would you sign 4-8 years of your life away knowing that jokers like Obama or Bush was commander in cheif? Its not an honor to fight for unjust wars. If one wants honor then join your state militia and protect your homeland.

When it has to do with indoctrinated American people following the constitution, most of the public "servants" have no clue in what that is even. They are even unaware that they ARE SERVANTS, as you can see how that turned out in PA.

 

[tonesforjonesbones]

Tell him to join the coast guard or the navy. tones

 

[tonesforjonesbones]

If he joins the navy tell him NOT to become a corpsman (medic) they have to go with the marines. tones

 

[James Madison]

Stay away from fighters - not a lot of civi jobs for fighter jocks and it's really easy to get dead in one.

Fighter pilots also have very strict standards in terms of physical size, vision, reflexes, etc. I wouldn't recommend somebody joining the Air Force in the hopes of becoming a fighter pilot.

 

[Wampy]

I'm not a libertarian, and I can tell you it has nothing to do with serving your community. Would you sign 4-8 years of your life away knowing that jokers like Obama or Bush was commander in cheif? Its not an honor to fight for unjust wars. If one wants honor then join your state militia and protect your homeland.

When it has to do with indoctrinated American people following the constitution, most of the public "servants" have no clue in what that is even. They are even unaware that they ARE SERVANTS, as you can see how that turned out in PA.

Would, did.... Well, that's part of the price of serving your country sometimes. Knowing you may be under command of some asshat who has never served in any capacity and has no clue what he is babbling about. I would be happy to see military service added to the requirements to be president.

You have to understand that at some point, you may be required to decide if an order is constitutional and/or moral, figure out what to do, and live with the consequences. If everyone chose not to serve for any number of reasons, or country would fail, be over run and we would never have the chance to sit here and debate on how to put us back in line with the constitution.

It's easy to sit here, full of activist fervor, and opine that no one should serve those evil socialists and neocons, but no one joins for that reason. They join to serve their country, because they think they will learn something or make money for school, any number of reasons, but not to "prop up the military-industrial complex." One thing most learn is, when it gets down to it, however it happened, however we got here, we fight for each other, the guy next to us, not some REMF with no experience.

And the truth is, again, if they don't volunteer, if someone does not step up, you and I do not get to sit here with the luxury of debating this kid's wisdom! Literally. If we had no military, if no one volunteered, if everyone went to Canada, there would be NO United States. We may have our problems, and I am here in hopes of making some of them better, but I still believe we have more liberty than almost anywhere else on this earth. Not as much as the constitution claims, and we REALLY need to fix that, but more than just about any other people on earth. And you can be sure that if we had no military, it would not be Canada who would come to fill the void.

You want to bitch about the neocons, the military-industrial complex, the socialists, the NWO, whatever, knock yourself out. There are a lot of things to oppose and argue about, but don't tell me that this kid is an idiot for wanting to do what some of us have to do so the rest of us can go about fixing the mess.

No matter what the orders are, no matter what the war, they are still fighting for you! They are still fighting for each other! They are still fighting so you have a chance to sit back here and debate what to do about what is wrong with the government. It's a real and direct thing, not some allegorical BS.

So, if you want to help him, figure out how to grow this damn party, get us elected to congress and restore the constitution to it's proper place as quickly as possible. These guys are fighting so you have the time to do it, don't waste it.

 

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

The Air Force is the best boot camp and easiest service.

If he has any interest in aviation, AF pilots get picked up as airline pilots - especially C-130, B-52, etc. Stay away from fighters - not a lot of civi jobs for fighter jocks and it's really easy to get dead in one.

Likewise, learn to maintain and repair aircraft. A&P's make good money and you aren't stationed too near hostilities.

Intelligence can be a good MOS, logistics and medical maybe - for the most part, you won't be near the war and will walk away with good, employable, skills.

If he learns a language that is NOT used in a hot zone, but somewhere where we have a base, there is a really good chance he will be assigned to where it's spoken.

Coast guard isn't bad, but units have been sent to the middle east to patrol the coasts - so might see combat.

-t

I'm in the Coast Guard. Operations Specialist. I can tell you they don't "send you". PATFORSWA is all volunteer. It has some damn good benefits to go, and it's usually just patrols in 110' and it's only a one year billet. You really don't do much if anything (But you work A LOT of hours).

By far the best branch is the Coast Guard. You get to save lives, though 99% of my job is so damn boring. We are a really relaxed branch. Just about everyone I work with are really chill and everyone is on a first name basis. Of course, we are all enlisted. Officer Corps is another story.....

I don't regret it one bit. Free college while you are in, and GI once you get out. 99% of the Billets are INCONUS, and the OUTCONUS billets are awesome. Hawaii, Guam, Puerto Rico, etc. We are a life-saving branch.

If your brother really wants to get in the Military tell him to go Coast Guard. We're a 44,000 service and damn proud (Even if I don't agree with some things...I hate being under DHS, and some of the shit we do).

 

[TinCanToNA]

The right reason to join the military in my mind is to defend the constitution and american soil.
I don't like to force anyone to do anything that they dont want to.

Like danno said im just trying to give him all the info I can find. I don't want him to make his decision off of what some recruiter told em.

The recruiters are apt to give some of the good side and a moderate level of BS. You're right to warn him of that. A lot of times, however, recruiters simply don't know enough about what they are recruiting people to do. All recruiters have their own background in the service, and couldn't possibly have had exposure to all the other communities, so they liberally "fill in the blanks."

You should have him contact a few people in the military who aren't recruiters. They'll always give a more complete perspective. In fact, I would recommend everyone in this board contact some members of the military so they can start to understand what they are talking about. A sufficiently complex system is indistinguishable from magic, after all. The military is probably the most misunderstood entity of its size in existence.

Just simple things like, if you want to be a pilot in the service, then FFS don't enlist; earn a commission. Not every job in the military even involves handling a weapon (although almost all carry that possibility).


Also, just keep in mind that forcing fewer options on someone is the same as forcing them to do something. Just some food for thought.


EDIT - to the post above:
Screw the Coast Guard and their relaxed underway uniforms. You get to wear a T-shirt and I have to wear these damn coveralls 24/7? Bah!

 

[legion]

I really do think the most effective way to approach this situation is by showing him how boring war is and how its not like the movies.

Concentrate on showing him how incredibly boring it will be and kill any of his heroic delusions.

Showing him pictures of maimed civilians and Adam Kokesh videos isn't going to change his mind.

 

[JeNNiF00F00]

Would, did.... Well, that's part of the price of serving your country sometimes. Knowing you may be under command of some asshat who has never served in any capacity and has no clue what he is babbling about. I would be happy to see military service added to the requirements to be president.

You have to understand that at some point, you may be required to decide if an order is constitutional and/or moral, figure out what to do, and live with the consequences. If everyone chose not to serve for any number of reasons, or country would fail, be over run and we would never have the chance to sit here and debate on how to put us back in line with the constitution.

It's easy to sit here, full of activist fervor, and opine that no one should serve those evil socialists and neocons, but no one joins for that reason. They join to serve their country, because they think they will learn something or make money for school, any number of reasons, but not to "prop up the military-industrial complex." One thing most learn is, when it gets down to it, however it happened, however we got here, we fight for each other, the guy next to us, not some REMF with no experience.

And the truth is, again, if they don't volunteer, if someone does not step up, you and I do not get to sit here with the luxury of debating this kid's wisdom! Literally. If we had no military, if no one volunteered, if everyone went to Canada, there would be NO United States. We may have our problems, and I am here in hopes of making some of them better, but I still believe we have more liberty than almost anywhere else on this earth. Not as much as the constitution claims, and we REALLY need to fix that, but more than just about any other people on earth. And you can be sure that if we had no military, it would not be Canada who would come to fill the void.

You want to bitch about the neocons, the military-industrial complex, the socialists, the NWO, whatever, knock yourself out. There are a lot of things to oppose and argue about, but don't tell me that this kid is an idiot for wanting to do what some of us have to do so the rest of us can go about fixing the mess.

No matter what the orders are, no matter what the war, they are still fighting for you! They are still fighting for each other! They are still fighting so you have a chance to sit back here and debate what to do about what is wrong with the government. It's a real and direct thing, not some allegorical BS.

So, if you want to help him, figure out how to grow this damn party, get us elected to congress and restore the constitution to it's proper place as quickly as possible. These guys are fighting so you have the time to do it, don't waste it.

They aren't fighting for ME, they are fighting for a very few select group of elite jackasses trying to power play the entire world! News flash, this country and constitution is pretty much dead, we have been infiltrated by the ENEMY. We are on the verge of a new era. Nazi's were just serving their country as well. So don't give me that emotional crap about how the military is fighting for we the people. They are fighting for THEY the NWO. No one is attacking us. The US is over THERE stiring up shit, and trying to put more of our bases in other countries, creating MORE terrorists, and more enemies working for the NWO. The middle east is just putting up a fight against the NWO as they should, and as we should as well. The military personnel are just blindly following orders, and when the time comes, they will be coming after us FIRST on our own soil.

As for the military saving us all, that is why I said join the state militia. They are the only ones that will stick up for us when the time comes. The rest will be just like the jackboots in PA following orders.

 

[Andrew-Austin]

Would, did.... Well, that's part of the price of serving your country sometimes.

Except you missed the part where Jennifoo said it isn't actually serving one's "country".

You have to understand that at some point, you may be required to decide if an order is constitutional and/or moral, figure out what to do, and live with the consequences.

Even just joining the military and participating in a war is immoral. And war is a major enemy of liberty.

If everyone chose not to serve for any number of reasons, or country would fail, be over run and we would never have the chance to sit here and debate on how to put us back in line with the constitution.

The government might 'fail' in some respects, everyone else that inhabits peaceful society would be just fine. The idea that any country would invade the United States is utterly bonkers. I don't think I need to debate this point and get in to the details, but suffice it to say a) we have nukes and b) we have guns behind every blade of grass.
At most they would strategically strike government centers as a retaliatory measure to some act of aggression the US committed against them, even that is hard to imagine but if it did I wouldn't really care.

It's easy to sit here, full of activist fervor, and opine that no one should serve those evil socialists and neocons, but no one joins for that reason. They join to serve their country, because they think they will learn something or make money for school, any number of reasons, but not to "prop up the military-industrial complex."

Working for the military isn't "earning" money. Sure you get paid, but its not earning it like how someone on the free market earns their money. They get paid like mafioso get paid by their mob boss (with violently extorted money). Serving "one's country" is illusionary bullcrap. Who defines / decides how the army is supposed to "serve their country"? The politicians decide, and they don't really represent shit now do they? You could say the military serves the whims of unaccountable politicians, and their ridiculous objectives (like "bringing democracy to Iraq") are partly only dreamed up as excuses to transfer the public's money to private interests / the military industrial complex.

And the truth is, again, if they don't volunteer, if someone does not step up, you and I do not get to sit here with the luxury of debating this kid's wisdom! Literally. If we had no military, if no one volunteered, if everyone went to Canada, there would be NO United States. We may have our problems, and I am here in hopes of making some of them better, but I still believe we have more liberty than almost anywhere else on this earth. Not as much as the constitution claims, and we REALLY need to fix that, but more than just about any other people on earth. And you can be sure that if we had no military, it would not be Canada who would come to fill the void.

You are completely full of it. You haven't even made an argument here. You are just saying "somehow, in some abstract way, the military is serving 'the people/the country' (all of us), though I can't really say exactly how".

No matter what the orders are, no matter what the war, they are still fighting for you! They are still fighting for each other! They are still fighting so you have a chance to sit back here and debate what to do about what is wrong with the government. It's a real and direct thing, not some allegorical BS.

Except you have still failed to explain how the troops are actually serving and protecting us.

 

[ForLiberty-RonPaul]

They aren't fighting for ME, they are fighting for a very few select group of elite jackasses trying to power play the entire world! News flash, this country and constitution is pretty much dead, we have been infiltrated by the ENEMY. We are on the verge of a new era. Nazi's were just serving their country as well. So don't give me that emotional crap about how the military is fighting for we the people. They are fighting for THEY the NWO. No one is attacking us. The US is over THERE stiring up shit, and trying to put more of our bases in other countries, creating MORE terrorists, and more enemies working for the NWO. The middle east is just putting up a fight against the NWO as they should, and as we should as well. The military personnel are just blindly following orders, and when the time comes, they will be coming after us FIRST on our own soil.

As for the military saving us all, that is why I said join the state militia. They are the only ones that will stick up for us when the time comes. The rest will be just like the jackboots in PA following orders.

This would be great for the Schoepenauer on Women thread. (should be Schopenhauer)

 

[TinCanToNA]

Except you missed the part where Jennifoo said it isn't actually serving one's "country".

Even just joining the military and participating in a war is immoral. And war is a major enemy of liberty.



The government might 'fail' in some respects, everyone else that inhabits peaceful society would be just fine. The idea that any country would invade the United States is utterly bonkers. I don't think I need to debate this point and get in to the details, but suffice it to say a) we have nukes and b) we have guns behind every blade of grass.




Working for the military isn't "earning" money. Sure you get paid, but its not earning it like how someone on the free market earns their money. They get paid like mafioso get paid by their mob boss (with violently extorted money). Serving "one's country" is illusionary bullcrap. Who defines / decides how the army is supposed to "serve their country"? The politicians decide, and they don't really represent shit now do they? You could say the military serves the whims of unaccountable politicians, and their ridiculous objectives (like "bringing democracy to Iraq") are partly only dreamed up as excuses to transfer the public's money to private interests / the military industrial complex.



You are completely full of it. You haven't even made an argument here. You are just saying "somehow, in some abstract way, the military is serving 'the people/the country' (all of us), though I can't really say exactly how".



Except you have still failed to explain how the troops are actually serving and protecting us.

Do you mind explaining to me, in detail, how the statement I bolded from the quote does not contradict everything else you said?

Furthermore, simply "participating" in a war is immoral under which moral standard? The namesake of this forum believes in the Just War Doctrine, or a form of it.


As for the rest of your post, it is rather mindless. Working in the military isn't "earning" money, eh? It comes from violent extortion, eh? Someone needs to read a dictionary...

 

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

nt

 

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

nt

 

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

Your welcome.

The military is a Constitutionally mandated function of the Federal Government. In my view, that and the courts (Civil) should be the only function and jurisprudence of the Federal Government. I signed my contract, the benefits I receive has been passed by the Congress and is not unconstitutional. Thank you though.