Glenn Beck evolving?

Glenn Beck @ 12 min mark

"You libertarians are nazis..."

...

...At the heart of Beck's technique of amplifying fringe theories is his obsession with Nazism. For much of the past 70 years, there has been an unwritten rule in U.S. political debate: Avoid Hitler accusations. Once you liken your opponent to the Nazis, any form of rational discussion becomes impossible. But Beck, it seems, has a Nazi fetish. In his first 18 months on Fox News, from early 2009 through the middle of this year, he and his guests invoked Hitler 147 times. Nazis, an additional 202 times. Fascism or fascists, 193 times. The Holocaust got 76 mentions, and Joseph Goebbels got 24...

As silly as it all sounds, there is something deft about Beck's Obama-as-Nazi allegations. In most cases where someone hurls "fascist" allegations, it's usually the left aiming them at the right. Conservatives, meanwhile, throw the "communist" charge at the left. But Beck found a way around this paradigm. Progressives, he figured, are responsible for both fascism and communism. Conservatives, by contrast, are the opponents of both.

"Fascism and communism are the same," Beck deduced this year. In fact, "sometimes, it's hard to tell Hitler and Marx apart." Particularly because, as far as Beck's viewers can tell, they both now live in the White House...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...30/AR2010093005267_4.html?sid=ST2010100806145

For a good chuckle:
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-may-12-2010/back-in-black---glenn-beck-s-nazi-tourette-s

This is just how abusive folks treat those they abuse, by accusing the person they abuse of being responsible for their irrational behavior they use shame and guilt and the abused person seeks to prove them wrong when it wasn't their problem in the first place. He cannot even control his rhetoric long enough to refrain from calling libertarians nazis. If a person cannot understand the basic freedom of the right to associate with people of one's own choosing then Beck has a long way to go in regards to evolution as a libertarian. Less talk and more action. Consistency in any way shape or form would be a thought. But blustering and namecalling is going to destroy any credibility he may attempt to build in trying to convince libertarians of his latest incarnation.
 
"500 different stances per issue over the years," eh? Could you please list a few of these changes in policy views (not campaign endorsements) where Beck went from the more libertarian position to the more authoritarian position? If you can name even one, I'd be surprised.

Consider this a formal challenge.

You can start here:
http://the-classic-liberal.com/glenn-beck-war-on-cops/

Decent enough blog with references to Beck's inconsistencies and bizarre mixture of beliefs.
 

No. It's ridiculous to assert that Ron Paul was still in the race by the time of that so-called convention.

The Time magazine make-up artist for the photo shoot knew it. You imagining that Beck knew it is your own pure speculation that you claim as fact so you can gin up support and more Beck hatred from the rest of us. This makes you a rabble-rousing demagogue, which is the thing Ron Paul detests most. And, even if Beck knew it (and there's zero proof of that), so what? I knew it too; does that speak volumes about me?! If Time magazine wanted to do a feature on you highlighting your mass appeal and the photographer wanted to spoof the emotional nature of your love for liberty with a crybaby picture, how would you summon the fake tears necessary for the shoot? Hmm? Would you have preferred Beck magicked the tears to his eyes? Or are you saying Beck should never be allowed to do a photo spoofing his own weepy sentimentality? Seriously, answer those questions!

If I wanted to be taken seriously, I wouldn't do it. Truth be known, I probably wouldn't waste my time with Time.

Face it, you are a hater who will hate anyone with power with whom you disagree, especially if that person actually thinks they're on your side. You're the embodiment of the very worst aspects of our movement: a true believer who betrays the cause by becoming a bully spewing venom, inciting hatred, and causing us all by association to look like unstable, immature children ready to tar and feather any who disagree with us.

If you care about freedom, restrain your hatred and retool your rhetoric. Otherwise, you only succeed in making the masses believe liberty is a fearful opiate that needs to be controlled and regulated lest it drive all men equally mad.

I set out to warn people that he has cozied up to us, then Beckstabbed us time and time again. I am indeed inflexible on this point, as it happens to be the truth. Being inflexible on points of truth does not make me a hater. Accusing me of it makes you remind me of this:

This is just how abusive folks treat those they abuse, by accusing the person they abuse of being responsible for their irrational behavior they use shame and guilt and the abused person seeks to prove them wrong when it wasn't their problem in the first place. He cannot even control his rhetoric long enough to refrain from calling libertarians nazis. If a person cannot understand the basic freedom of the right to associate with people of one's own choosing then Beck has a long way to go in regards to evolution as a libertarian. Less talk and more action. Consistency in any way shape or form would be a thought. But blustering and namecalling is going to destroy any credibility he may attempt to build in trying to convince libertarians of his latest incarnation.

That said, thank you for the compliment. If I had left you a leg to stand on, you'd have stood on it instead of waiting until I logged out and then flaming me like a kindergartner.

The only way Beck fails to turn on us is if the powers that be are convinced that he has used too much Fox Newspeak for the independent voters and the millions of disaffected Democrats to ever trust him enough to vote for him in the general election. Indeed, I suspect you will be able to tell exactly how Rand's doing against the frontrunning Democrat in the polls by how nice or nasty Beck is when talking about him. Bank on it.
 
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You can start here:
http://the-classic-liberal.com/glenn-beck-war-on-cops/

Decent enough blog with references to Beck's inconsistencies and bizarre mixture of beliefs.
Holy crap! You just linked a blog that not only did NOT list any actual inconsistencies, but had Beck literally agreeing with the blogger on all the blogger's points, except the blogger was too fucking dumb to realize it. I've literally never read anything more stupid than what you sent me. Please read it again.
 
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he has gone through this 'evolution' before and it has been completely fake, and destructive as he coopted people then at key moments turned them away from those actually furthering the ideology.

If you think he is simply a dishonest, manipulative person, it is hard to trust further, equally 'heartfelt' conversions.

Thank you, SA.
 
"
Article V said:
500 different stances per issue over the years," eh? Could you please list a few of these changes in policy views (not campaign endorsements) where Beck went from the more libertarian position to the more authoritarian position? If you can name even one, I'd be surprised.

Consider this a formal challenge.
Oh I'm your huckleberry baby ;)



But you're gonna have to do alot better than pretend Beck has always had a libertarian position and never authoritarian. Educate yourself about the subject before challenging someone.
  1. Awesome movie, awesome portrayal, awesome moment. So thank you for that clip.
  2. I never once pretended Beck never had an authoritarian position (he still has some); I simply said that on the occasions where Beck has changed policy views, it has always been in favor of the libertarian or the more libertarian stance.
  3. While you promised you'd "be my huckleberry" and man up to the formal challenge I laid out, you instead completely sidestepped it.
    Either provide actual concrete evidence of Beck changing policies toward authoritarianism on one of the 500 different occasions you claim it has happened, or sit on your own thumb before sucking it.
 
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NorfolkPCSolutions said:
Glenn Beck @ 12 min mark

"You libertarians are nazis..."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...30/AR2010093005267_4.html?sid=ST2010100806145

For a good chuckle:
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-may-12-2010/back-in-black---glenn-beck-s-nazi-tourette-s

This is just how abusive folks treat those they abuse, by accusing the person they abuse of being responsible for their irrational behavior they use shame and guilt and the abused person seeks to prove them wrong when it wasn't their problem in the first place. He cannot even control his rhetoric long enough to refrain from calling libertarians nazis. If a person cannot understand the basic freedom of the right to associate with people of one's own choosing then Beck has a long way to go in regards to evolution as a libertarian. Less talk and more action. Consistency in any way shape or form would be a thought. But blustering and namecalling is going to destroy any credibility he may attempt to build in trying to convince libertarians of his latest incarnation.
  1. Your repetition of NorfolkPCSolutions's quote is absurd for several reasons, including but not limited to the fact that you couldn't possibly make a quote more of of context than that and second it is clear in its full context that Beck is using hyperbole to point out hypocrisy and a divergence by libertarians from their own libertarian values rather than an embrace of them. You'd have to be daft not to understand that.
  2. The Washington Post article you link is about Beck comparing progressives to Nazis, which is a fair comparison in my view and not at all related to a divergence from libertarianism toward authoritarianism.
  3. A good chuckle doesn't provide any support for an argument that Beck has become more authoritarian in his policy views. Provide that support and stop trying to divert the conversation by links that are meaningless. Those links can be included once you surrender that you have no evidence of the accusations you so freely wheel about like a bullet-spewing chain gun.
  4. Finally, even Ayn Rand would occasionally use rhetoric associating libertarians as analogous to Nazis. This does not mean Ayn Rand didn't have libertarian values or that she was switching and becoming more authoritarian. On the contrary, it was because she, like Beck, was trying to make a point which is clearly lost on you.
Q&A with Ayn Rand said:
Q: Why don’t you approve of libertarians, thousands of whom are loyal readers of your works?

AR: Because libertarians are a monstrous, disgusting bunch of people: they plagiarize my ideas when that fits their purpose, and denounce me in a more vicious manner than any communist publication when that fits their purpose. They’re lower than any pragmatists, and what they hold against Objectivism is morality. They want an amoral political program. [FHF 81]


Q: Libertarians provide intermediate steps toward your goals. Why don’t you support them?

AR: Please don’t tell me they’re pursuing my goals. I have not asked for, nor do I accept, the help of intellectual cranks. I want philosophically educated people: those who understand ideas, care about ideas, and spread the right ideas. That’s how my philosophy will spread, just as philosophy has throughout history: by means of people who understand ideas and teach them to others. Further, it should be clear that I reject the filthy slogan “The end justifies the means.” That was originated by the Jesuits, and accepted enthusiastically by the Communists and the Nazis. The end does not justify the means; you cannot achieve anything good by evil means. Finally, libertarians aren’t worthy of being the means to any end, let alone the end of spreading Objectivism. [FHF 81]
 
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No. It's ridiculous to assert that Ron Paul was still in the race by the time of that so-called convention.
Rand Paul endorsed Romney roughly 3 months BEFORE the time of that so-called convention. He did it while his father was still trying to collect delegates that would give him the ability to shape the GOP party platform and get on the nomination ballot so that he could make a speech at that so-called convention. Had Rand Paul kept campaigning for Ron Paul, or at the very least waited before endorsing Romney, Ron Paul could have likely won many delegates from some of the states who had yet to have their primaries, including Utah, Nebraska, and Montana.
If I wanted to be taken seriously, I wouldn't do it. Truth be known, I probably wouldn't waste my time with Time.
The entire point of a spoof or parody is not to be taken seriously. Are you suggesting Beck can never spoof or parody himself without you demonizing him and falsely accusing him?
I set out to warn people that he has cozied up to us, then Beckstabbed us time and time again. I am indeed inflexible on this point, as it happens to be the truth. Being inflexible on points of truth does not make me a hater.
He did not "Beck-stab" us because he never owed us anything. Being a libertarian does not obligate one to endorse a libertarian candidate or even THE Libertarian candidate. If you think Beck Beck-stabbed us, do you think Ron Paul is an untrustworthy, authoritarian tool unworthy of the libertarian moniker because he similarly Beck-stabbed the Libertarian Party after they nominated him as their representative and the Republican Party before that after they nominated and elected him to public office?
Accusing me of it makes you remind me of this:
moostraks said:
This is just how abusive folks treat those they abuse, by accusing the person they abuse of being responsible for their irrational behavior they use shame and guilt and the abused person seeks to prove them wrong when it wasn't their problem in the first place. He cannot even control his rhetoric long enough to refrain from calling libertarians nazis. If a person cannot understand the basic freedom of the right to associate with people of one's own choosing then Beck has a long way to go in regards to evolution as a libertarian. Less talk and more action. Consistency in any way shape or form would be a thought. But blustering and namecalling is going to destroy any credibility he may attempt to build in trying to convince libertarians of his latest incarnation.
That said, thank you for the compliment.
I've already addressed the ludicrousness of the quote you referenced in another post and provided evidence of even Ayn Rand saying libertarians are analogous to Nazis. Nazi analogies have become ubiquitous in society and many libertarians have used it to reference members of their own kind.
If I had left you a leg to stand on, you'd have stood on it instead of waiting until I logged out and then flaming me like a kindergartner.
Ha. The idea that I organize my time around you is truly laughable. Could you be more conceited? I have no idea when you're logged in or when you're not, nor would I ever bother to look up when anyone is logged in or logged out. My functionality with this site is such that, even after multiple years of use, I can barely relocate the posts I myself have made. Moreover, my lack of response or delayed response to you is no indication of anything. I simply am just now reading your post for the first time, and I luckily have enough time to respond after having just read it. Try to deflate that ego of yours and see reality: I could care less about you; I only care about the truth, which is why I'm defending Beck on this one point even though I disagree with him on countless others.
The only way Beck fails to turn on us is if the powers that be are convinced that he has used too much Fox Newspeak for the independent voters and the millions of disaffected Democrats to ever trust him enough to vote for him in the general election. Indeed, I suspect you will be able to tell exactly how Rand's doing against the frontrunning Democrat in the polls by how nice or nasty Beck is when talking about him. Bank on it.
More wild speculation and more self-entitled bullshit. Beck doesn't owe us a Rand-endorsement at any point. We're not a collective! I think Beck was an idiot for not endorsing Ron; but that doesn't make Beck un-libertarian, it just makes him a crap political strategist.

Your only job in this debate is to provide a policy view where Beck has turned from the libertarian viewpoint to the more authoritarian viewpoint. Anything other than that, such as anything regarding endorsements, means you've failed in this debate and purely hate Beck not because he's un-libertarian but because you are a self-entitled twit who thinks Beck somehow magically lost his personal right to free choice and instead owed the Ron Paul movement allegiance in 2012.
 
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Article V, there is a difference in a party and the ideas. The LP is about ideas, right? Pushing the ideas in any party is not backstabbing the party if the party is about the ideas.
 
  1. Your repetition of NorfolkPCSolutions's quote is absurd for several reasons, including but not limited to the fact that you couldn't possibly make a quote more of of context than that and second it is clear in its full context that Beck is using hyperbole to point out hypocrisy and a divergence from libertarian values rather than an embrace of them. You'd have to be daft not to understand that.

Don't drag me into this, God damn it. Moostraks' quote was entirely within context. Beck wasn't using hyperbole. He was spewing partially-digested donkey shit from his mouth, as he is wont to do when he speaks of liberty - neocons don't do "freedom" very well. Not only was moostraks spot the fuck on, he added a very viable point about how an argument descends into irrelevance the moment someone starts tossing swastikas around.

You'd have to be daft not to understand that.

Re-read the post:


Glenn Beck @ 12 min mark

"You libertarians are nazis..."

The last 20 seconds or so were absolutely pathetic. This man fails to understand that none of us really give a fuck about what the other guy thinks, or feels - that's up to him. [It was very late when I posted this. I could have written something to the effect of, "Regardless of how much of a horse's ass you made yourself to be in the last 20 seconds of the OP's video, as long as your stupidity isn't harmful to anyone else, continue on. Since it isn't, drink bleach and gargle with buckshot, you cocksucker"] It's about the right to be left the hell alone, to have sound money, and a government that isn't hell bent on ruling the goddamn world.

Listening to him apologizing to the people he spent all of 2011 and 2012 maligning...it reminded me of when my mom fucks up, knows she fucked up, then apologizes in that same bleary eyed fake ass way. Yup, my original hypothesis is confirmed: no, Beck is not evolving, and remains an utter waste of time.
 
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How hard is it to understand that Beck hated and trashed Ron Paul and libertarians on his radio show every day, and then made his antics official by endorsing Rick Santorum (who hated Ron Paul, per the debates... and Beck also had Santorum on his show weekly) and then Mitt Romney?

And that question is for anyone and everyone, not just to the participants in this argument (on the page before).
 
Article V, there is a difference in a party and the ideas. The LP is about ideas, right? Pushing the ideas in any party is not backstabbing the party if the party is about the ideas.
Ayn Rand and every politician would disagree with you. By that I mean to say, a political party is not about ideas (after all Ron Paul didn't re-join the Republicans because their ideas were suddenly more in line with his, he joined the party because he thought it would help him win and knew political parties are merely tools to that end), and Ayn Rand regularly claimed the Libertarian Party itself was anathema to true libertarian ideas.
 
Ayn Rand and every politician would disagree with you. By that I mean to say, a political party is not about ideas (after all Ron Paul didn't re-join the Republicans because their ideas were suddenly more in line with his, he joined the party because he thought it would help him win and knew political parties are merely tools to this end), and Ayn Rand regularly claimed the Libertarian Party itself was anathema to true libertarian ideas.

You seemed to misunderstand what I said.

Ron Paul "used" the Republican Party to spread the ideas that the LP agrees with. I know that most of the LP here (in my area) supported Ron Paul in 2008 and 2012 in trying to spread his message and name and would have voted for him in the General.

The LP Party (proper) I don't care about, it's the ideas, and most of the still serious LP members care about them (the ideas) too, imho
 
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Don't drag me into this, God damn it. Moostraks' quote was entirely within context. Beck wasn't using hyperbole. He was spewing partially-digested donkey shit from his mouth, as he is wont to do when he speaks of liberty - neocons don't do "freedom" very well.

You'd have to be daft not to understand that.

Re-read the post:
NorfolkPCSolutions, the only Beck quote in that is 4 words long and breaks off mid-sentence!:
"You libertarians are nazis..."
That's the quote that is out of context! I could care less whether Moostraks fully quotes you or not, because your words are irrelevant to Beck's.
 
You seemed to misunderstand what I said.

Ron Paul "used" the Republican Party to spread the ideas that the LP agrees with. I know that most of the LP here supported Ron Paul in 2008 and 2012 in trying to spread his message and name and would have voted for him in the General.

The LP Party (proper) I don't care about, it's the ideas, and most of the still serious LP members care about them too, imho
I don't misunderstand your point; I am merely pointing out that a divergence in political strategy does not imply a change of philosophy or policy views. Ergo, Beck's campaign endorsements, however despicable, do not qualify as flip-flopping on libertarianism.
My point is that Beck's libertarian views have never been in line with Ron Paul's enough to endorse Ron Paul, and Beck has never pretended they were or are. Because Rand has a more guarded approach to Islamic jihadists, Beck is more comfortable with Rand; but Ron's rhetoric and permissive nature of Middle East crazies always made Beck feel Ron was unfit for command. I don't agree with Beck, but Beck is not un-libertarian because he only can go as far as Rand and no further.
 
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NorfolkPCSolutions, the only Beck quote in that is 4 words long and breaks off mid-sentence!: That's the quote that is out of context! I could care less whether Moostraks fully quotes you or not, because your words are irrelevant to Beck's.

Well, fuck me, then, huh...moostraks was alluding to what happens to a debate once a participant drops a Nazi bomb and you ignored his valid point. In his post, he quoted my reference to Beck shitting out a Nazi bomb, then proceeded to expand on both his own thoughts and my post from page 5 of what is becoming a ridiculous thread that should probably be closed. You aren't paying attention to the rules of the language we've all agreed on, pard'ner.

And don't use my words to malign a fellow user on these threads, fellow RPFer. It's daft.

Wasn't this thread about the evolution/de-evolution of Glenn Beck? How in fuck's name does that discussion take up eight fucking pages? Beck isn't going to change. He might bring Rand onto his show between now and November 2016. Whooptie-frickin'-doo. A shit leopard can't change its spots. But it can waste a bunch of time on Ronpaulforums.com, goddammit!
 
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Well, fuck me, then, huh...moostraks was alluding to what happens to a debate once a participant drops a Nazi bomb and you ignored his valid point. In his post, he quoted my reference to Beck shitting out a Nazi bomb, then proceeded to expand on both his own thoughts and my post from page 5 of what is becoming a ridiculous thread that should probably be closed. You aren't paying attention to the rules of the language we've all agreed on, pard'ner.
I ignored his "valid" point because it wasn't valid to my debate with him. It was a straw man argument. I already agree with both moostraks and you on that Beck is inappropriate to escalate conversation with such hyperbolic rhetoric. I never argued anything to the contrary. Moostraks saying that Beck's hyperbolic rhetoric is evidence of a change in policy views from libertarianism to authoritarianism purely because Beck is wrongfully demonizing those who attack him is a straw man. It proves nothing. Moostraks is right, Beck is an idiot and shouldn't be using such rhetoric with anyone except actual Nazis. But the actual debate I am having with Moostraks isn't about appropriate use of rhetoric, it's exclusively about whether Beck has changed any of his libertarian policy views (not campaign endorsements) into more authoritarian views. Is that clear?

And don't use my words to malign a fellow user on these threads, fellow RPFer. It's daft.
Of course you're right, and I apologize. I'm just a bit over every single thread that remotely mentions Beck becoming overwhelmed with unsupported Beck-bashing claims. Someone wants to say, "Beck is an idiot for not endorsing Ron Paul!," then I am all for it as it's clear that's a matter of opinion (and one I happen to agree with); someone wants to say, "Beck is a flip-flopper and never stays true to his libertarian views!," then I'm gonna need some evidence of that because that is an assertion of fact... but no one in any thread has shown me one example of Beck changing his libertarian policy views (even though they all claim he's done it hundreds of times). It's just a mob whining that they didn't get his endorsement because they thought they were entitled to it purely because Beck claims to be a libertarian. Whine somewhere else. We don't need to have it take over every thread that has Beck's name for the next 3 years! I mean, seriously, get a life, Beck-bashers. We all should have better things to do with our time then engage in the same stupid posts in every damned Beck thread.
 
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And I'm asking why I should trust him based upon his rhetoric. But that has remained the unanswerable question from the beginning.

I do not "trust" ANY politician qua politician - not even Ron Paul. I enthusiastically supported Ron as a politician because of what he actually & demonstrably DID (or tried to do) in the way of returning America to sanity.

Politicians should NEVER be trusted. Period. They should certainly never be trusted on the basis of their rhetoric - no matter how consistently agreeable that rhetoric may be.

To do so would be akin to trusting a wife-beater on the basis of the regretful apologies he offers after each beating.

At least Occam's Banana has had the courage to admit that his rhetoric reveals his beliefs;

Actually, I think Rand's record (his votes & legislative actions in the Senate) is what reveals his beliefs - or at least, his record is the closest we can ever hope to come in sussing out "what he *really* thinks" without being mind readers.

The same goes for ANY politician - including Ron Paul. Ron could've talked the way he did throughout his career, but if his record had not back-stopped his words, his rhetoric would have meant absolutely nothing - it would have been no more than nice-sounding (but ultimately empty) words from yet another gasbag politician.

This is why we don't take so many other politicians who "say the right things" seriously. Consider Paul Ryan, for example. Ryan talks a great game when is comes to fiscal conservatism/responsibility, but when you look at what he actually does (voting for Medicare Part D, TARP & bailouts, or proposing a budget whose "cuts" are nothing more than reductions in spending increases, etc.), it becomes obvious that Ryan is a fake and a fraud. It is his record - not his rhetoric - that exposes him as such. Going by his rhetoric, Ryan should be pretty fantastic ...

Rand confronts us with the diametric opposite of what we are used to. Whereas pols like Ryan employ the desired rhetoric (but betray that rhetoric with their actions), Rand moderates on rhetoric (but his actions are - for the most part - superb).

Though I would much, much prefer a Ron to all of them, I will take a Rand over a Ryan any day - and without hesitation - if those are my only choices.

and as such, as a principled libertarian who cannot countenance advocacy of foreign interventionism, I cannot support him. At least this is a more honest approach, with integrity, than what you are suggesting.

I judge Rand to be a minimal interventionist - but I base this judgement on his record (on the Iran sanctions issue, most notably), NOT because of his rhetoric.

His record indicates that Rand is a minimal interventionist who is earnestly trying to move the country sharply away from the rampant interventionism that is so pervasive today.

That is a good thing. That is why I support him, in spite of the fact that he is not a strict non-interventionist. To the degree to which he succeeds, non-interventionism will be afforded greater currency and more & better opportunities for advancement. Although that is not as much as I would like, it is also not worth nothing. In fact, as I see it, this kind of thing is just about the only reason for supporting "legislative" style politicians like Rand at all - as opposed to "educative" style politicans like Ron. (IOW: educative approach >> legislative approach > 0.)

But I think it is 100% fine for people to refuse to support Rand at all because of his minimally interventionist record. (My own enthusiasm for Rand is much lessened because of it.) My chief quibble with a lot of Rand criticism is that it condemns him for not doing something (such as employing strict non-interventionist rhetoric) that he is manifestly NOT trying to do. In this, it is very much akin to the criticisms of Lew Rockwell (for example) that condemn him for not doing something (such as courting likely GOP primary voters) that he is manifestly NOT trying to do. Now, I think Lew's approach (and that of other primarily or solely "educational" efforts) is ultimately the most important, effective and critical for the long-term. But that does NOT mean that there is nothing at all of value to be gained from primarily or solely "legislative" (rather than "educative") approaches - such as that that being taken by Rand. In fact, to the extent that Rand, Amash, Massie, etc. succeed, they will make the jobs of Rockwell, Woods, etc. that much easier.

I also question why the conservative-cum-neocon voter should support him, if as you suggest his rhetoric does not matter his actions in Congress.

I agree. This is why I think the "Rand is a strict non-interventionist who is trying to stealthily maneuver his way into a position of power and influence" is a lot of silly nonsense. Either it isn't true, or (if it is true) the strategy is going to blow up in his face when it becomes obvious (from his actions, not his rhetoric) that he isn't what his interventionist supporters thought he was. Whatever one thinks of Rand, he is NOT stupid.
 
With all the Glenn Beck threads on this board lately, you would think there is some sort of nefarious campaign afoot to convince us this douchebag has reformed. Guess I'm just paranoid.

He's an asshole and will always be an asshole.
 
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