Gaza under attack by Israel

[awake]

Can somebody please summarize the history between Israel and the Palestinians for me? I don't have the time to research it in depth and cut through all the propaganda from both sides.

My intuition tells me that Israel is the aggressor and the worse of the two evils. Antiwar.com seems to present this narrative as well. So, what is really going on with the whole situation?

Here is Rothbard on the whole mess... The state of Israel isn't the innocent victim here...not by a long shot.

 

[klamath]

And if someone got that impression, I would ask them to reread the thread and look to see precisely how many people have taken a side. Of those, how many are advocating some sort of action on the United States' part? You can still take a personal side on something, and not want to legislate it. Ron Paul does that on a large number of issues.

Does he go on record saying this county is right and that country is wrong? I don't think so.

 

[MelissaWV]

Does he go on record saying this county is right and that country is wrong? I don't think so.

He goes on record as saying any number of moral issues are this or that, and makes no move to legislate them. I think if you asked him directly, he'd be hard pressed to deny that the death of a baby via rocket fire is a bad thing. Or would he say he can't make that determination because he doesn't get involved in foreign affairs?

If I personally favor one side or the other side then it’s really pretty academic because politically I don’t want to be involved. If I wanna say well, you know, I really think the Palestinians have been ripped off and therefore all the blame is on Israel, then I’ve sorta stepped in a little bit more than I want to. I can have a personal opinion but politically my position is that America would be much better off if we just minded our own business

 

[klamath]

No, instead he goes on record as saying any number of moral issues are this or that, and makes no move to legislate them. I think if you asked him directly, he'd be hard pressed to deny that the death of a baby via rocket fire is a bad thing. Or would he say he can't make that determination because he doesn't get involved in foreign affairs?

No he would be apalled at the individual suffering, and death on all sides as I am, but he would say which nation was right or wrong? I don't think so.

 

[klamath]

If we as the people of a different country can without a shadow of a doubt determine who is unequivically right and who is wrong in a foreign conflict then, since we are talking morals, we as a nation should be morally obligated to came to the aid of the unequivically right country. I don't believe we can. On an individual scale it would be like if I saw a little girl get grabbed and raped I would feel morally oblicated to kick the sh*t out of the rapist. Yes I am intervening and i would not feel wrong doing it.

 

[robert68]

... Non jews say WTF we've been here for generations? They go to war. Lose.
...

The Palestinians never waged any war. They were kept defenseless by the British and British led Zionist forces in "Special Night Squads". The 750,000 Palestinians had already been driven from their homes before the "Arab armies" got involved.

 

[MelissaWV]

No he would be apalled at the individual suffering, and death on all sides as I am, but he would say which nation was right or wrong? I don't think so.

Did you even listen to him...

Again, who in this thread is advocating one side being absolutely right and the use of deadly force on that side's behalf by the US?

It's not exactly "all of the forums" or even most.

 

[robert68]

Son of a Famed Israeli General Speaks Out

Posted by Lew Rockwell on October 12, 2012 09:56 AM

Writes Bob Wenzel:
Miko Peled, author of The General’s Son, whose father was the renowned Israeli general Matti Peled, spoke earlier this month in Seattle. The video is over an hour long, but it is a MUST view. Find the time to view it. It is history from a perspective you have never heard before.

..

 

[Dystopian]

Oh but they are the chosen people, haven't you heard? They get to murder all the women and children they like. Their "god" seems to get off on it, haven't you read the old Testament?

 

[puppetmaster]

I think RP forums does great harm in reinforcing racist stereotypes people have of RP's ideas by always wading full on into debating who is right and whole is wrong in a conflicts in the world, we should just wipe our hands of.
I have long heard the argument that we have to take sides because israel has undue influence on the US foreign policy. They do, however I will argue the the british actually have Far far more influence than the Israelis. They have actually dragged us into huge wars. The British have actually invaded 90% of the nations of the world. Many of the problems in the middle east are the result the country boundries draw by the British including israel and palestine however I am not seeing long threads on the british.
The british can do what the british can do but I just want the US to stay out of wars other nations get themselves into.
I want our country to mind our own business including people on these forums.
If people truely believed in RP they should note RP would not even vote for a resolution condeming other countries obvious atrocities. Why? Because he believes that even chosing sides with no actual physical support was interfering in other nations.

I guaranfukintee you that there would be a long ass thread if this was being done by the Brits.......actually longer than this thread as everyone here is used to the Israel/Palestine conflict

 

[klamath]

Did you even listen to him...

Again, who in this thread is advocating one side being absolutely right and the use of deadly force on that side's behalf by the US?

It's not exactly "all of the forums" or even most.

Your video hadn't posted when I answered. Unfortunately I can't waste bandwidth watching. I am on a bandwidth noose. If the quote of RP's is the point of the video then I believe he agrees with what I am saying. He wouldn't say which side he was supporting personally.
We are a worldwide political forum susposedly representing the belief of RP's noninterventionist foreign policy yet many are avidly taking sides in a foreign conflict and I think it is counter productive. That is just my opinion, hopefully some will see it my way and deal only with our countries involvement. With that I am out of this thread. I said my piece

 

[MelissaWV]

Your video hadn't posted when I answered. Unfortunately I can't waste bandwidth watching. I am on a bandwidth noose. If the quote of RP's is the point of the video then I believe he agrees with what I am saying. He wouldn't say which side he was supporting personally.
We are a worldwide political forum susposedly representing the belief of RP's noninterventionist foreign policy yet many are avidly taking sides in a foreign conflict and I think it is counter productive. That is just my opinion, hopefully some will see it my way and deal only with our countries involvement. With that I am out of this thread. I said my piece

He uses the phrase "concentration camp" to refer to conditions in Gaza... I think that's a pretty strong personal opinion.

No one here supports actually legislating taking a side, or sending troops, or sending money, that I have seen.

This is along the lines of Ron's personal views on abortion, drugs, or marriage... and the way he puts all of that aside in order to do the Constitutional thing.

 

[Brett85]

I think RP forums does great harm in reinforcing racist stereotypes people have of RP's ideas by always wading full on into debating who is right and whole is wrong in a conflicts in the world, we should just wipe our hands of.

If the average person came on these forums and read all of these anti Israel comments they would be turned off immediately and wouldn't give the liberty movement a 2nd thought. It's this kind of stuff that will hurt Rand if he decides to run for President in 2016.

 

[Aeroneous]

If the average person came on these forums and read all of these anti Israel comments they would be turned off immediately and wouldn't give the liberty movement a 2nd thought. It's this kind of stuff that will hurt Rand if he decides to run for President in 2016.

That's because the average person can't comprehend the idea that there are events which took place outside of their short lifespan. If it happened before their birth, most people don't care about it or can't be swayed to even learn about it.

You are correct, unfortunately. At the same time, I think part of being a good liberty supporter is educating yourself. If a person was that closed minded to begin with they were probably never going to come onboard anyway.

 

[LibertyEagle]

If a person was that closed minded to begin with they were probably never going to come onboard anyway.

I suppose you can keep telling yourself that.

 

[COpatriot]

In case you're interested, this guy is broadcasting a live audio feed from Gaza. I've had it on for the last hour or so and it is spooky. The sound of Israeli drones flying overhead never stops and you hear the occasional blast.

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/operation-pillar-of-cloud

 

[puppetmaster]

If the average person came on these forums and read all of these anti Israel comments they would be turned off immediately and wouldn't give the liberty movement a 2nd thought. It's this kind of stuff that will hurt Rand if he decides to run for President in 2016.

I suppose you can keep telling yourself that.

seriously trying hard...you should get a raise

 

[Muwahid]

If the average person came on these forums and read all of these anti Israel comments they would be turned off immediately and wouldn't give the liberty movement a 2nd thought. It's this kind of stuff that will hurt Rand if he decides to run for President in 2016.

This is a forum to share opinions were not the 2016 liberty HQ. If they run off because people personally don't like Israel what happens if they see pot smokers here, or gays, or EGAD they see me a muslim! This forum is just a melting pot of people who traditionally can't stand eachother united under the banner of LEAVE US ALONE FEDS! And I just think that is wonderful.

 

[Smart3]

This is a forum to share opinions were not the 2016 liberty HQ. If they run off because people personally don't like Israel what happens if they see pot smokers here, or gays, or EGAD they see me a muslim! This forum is just a melting pot of people who traditionally can't stand eachother united under the banner of LEAVE US ALONE FEDS! And I just think that is wonderful.

In your defense, I have yet to see you wielding a sword and ak-47 and promising to kill the mushrikeen on the forum.

and presumably, most gays on this forum agree with getting the govt out of the marriage business, so they wouldn't be the "enemy" to a RINO who came here looking for info on Dr. Rand Paul.

 

[robert68]

Does he go on record saying this county is right and that country is wrong? I don't think so.

You think wrong.