Free At Last! The next money bomb is ready!!

[Wayne Hammond]

God, when will I get it. Why can't I believe that everything is black and white like you do, Wayne?

While skin color is not necessarily all black or all white (I myself am a mixture), truth and lies are indeed black and white, good and evil are indeed black and white, and freedom and slavery are indeed black and white.

Seriously, Chandler... I understand that you're young, but the youth of America has generally swallowed the blue pill that makes you think that there are no absolutes in this world, when in fact, there are.

There is a growing and focused effort by the leaders of our modern public school educational system that is exactly in-line with the ideals of the new world order. I fear for our youth - who, for the most part, have no defense against this type of evil attack upon the virgin minds of youth like yourself.

This is why Dr. Paul has proposed getting rid of the the Dept. of Education.

.

 

[chandlerLBT]

There's a proposal I've never heard before. Encouraging critical thought will be the downfall of America's youth. Oh Wayne, you're so all-knowing.

 

[Wayne Hammond]

There's a proposal I've never heard before. Encouraging critical thought will be the downfall of America's youth. Oh Wayne, you're so all-knowing.

Sigh... Never said that, Chandler. You need critical thought... your public school teachers have blinded you to critical thought, however. You need to read non-revisionist history books, as I advised you yesterday.

You're a good kid. Just do your own research.

.

 

[chandlerLBT]

truth and lies are indeed black and white, good and evil are indeed black and white, and freedom and slavery are indeed black and white.

Truth and lies are black and white, because they're based solely on fact. Freedom and slavery is black and white because they're polar opposites.

Good and evil is not black and white. Because this is determined by the morals and ethics of each individual. Not everyone will believe Hitler was evil, just as not everyone will believe Martin Luther King was good.

 

[Wayne Hammond]

Good and evil is not black and white. Because this is determined by the morals and ethics of each individual.

Open your mind, grasshopper.

You're regurgitating your teacher's belief in moral relativism...

Read here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_relativism

.

 

[Cyclone177]

Whoa.

Some serious discussion going on around here. Good to see. I think the good Dr. getting elected is the goal for all though right?

 

[Wayne Hammond]

Whoa.

Some serious discussion going on around here. Good to see. I think the good Dr. getting elected is the goal for all though right?

Yep. Chandler and I are on the same team, I believe... just a little discourse on how to win the game, that's all.

I think he's a pretty smart young man... and I would encourage him to go beyond what he has learned from his public school teachers.

.

 

[chandlerLBT]

Open your mind, grasshopper.

You're regurgitating your teacher's belief in moral relativism...

Read here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_relativism

.

Not everything a teacher teaches is wrong. Just because you're pure anti-establishment does not make you better than the establishment. All it means is everything they have wrong you have right, and everything they have right you have wrong.

I'm agnostic. I don't believe that anyone is purely good. And I don't believe that anyone is purely evil. Not because my teacher taught me. But because when you think about it, one person's belief of what's good and evil is not the same as another person's belief of what's good and evil. There is no absolute, unless you belief in a God(s). In which case, you believe that your God(s) is/are the only one(s) who know(s) what is truly good and what is truly evil and you are the only one besides your God(s) who know(s) what is truly good and what is truly evil (and what degree of evil and good each and every thing is).

 

[Matthew Zak]

All this time debating another useless money bomb could have been spent handing out slim jims.

 

[chandlerLBT]

Anyway, my point is FACTS are indeed black and white. Everything else is just how you choose to take it, and how you chose to present facts to defend your case.

 

[Dieseler]

I'm just waiting to see how much of the donations collected on your MLK money bomb day will end up in the hands of

The Martin Luther King Jr. Center for Non-Violent Social Change

I smell a lawsuit coming.

 

[chandlerLBT]

I'm just waiting to see how much of the donations collected on your MLK money bomb day will end up in the hands of

The Martin Luther King Jr. Center for Non-Violent Social Change

I smell a lawsuit coming.

Yeah, I read the last three posts from you about this. I can see the headlines now:

The Martin Luther King Jr. Center for Non-Violent Social Change Sues Ron Paul Supporters for Non-Violent Social Change


Or not.

 

[peacemonger]

I'm in. Ron Paul often talks about admiring MLK's peaceful resistance. I think this is a good message.

 

[ForLiberty-RonPaul]

While skin color is not necessarily all black or all white (I myself am a mixture), truth and lies are indeed black and white, good and evil are indeed black and white, and freedom and slavery are indeed black and white.

Seriously, Chandler... I understand that you're young, but the youth of America has generally swallowed the blue pill that makes you think that there are no absolutes in this world, when in fact, there are.

There is a growing and focused effort by the leaders of our modern public school educational system that is exactly in-line with the ideals of the new world order. I fear for our youth - who, for the most part, have no defense against this type of evil attack upon the virgin minds of youth like yourself.

This is why Dr. Paul has proposed getting rid of the the Dept. of Education.

.

Actually sir, the "blue pill" would be accepting the concept of good and evil. Your reference to "The Matrix" is well placed, but misused and misunderstood. Yes the first "Matrix" film was very manichaean in that it was good vs. evil, light vs. dark, matter vs. the immaterial. However, as you watch the rest of the trilogy you realize that the whole "Matrix" saga's sole message was not about right and wrong, but about the reality of oneness. Accepting dualism keeps the mind at ease and the spirit entrapped in the body. Throughout the first "Matrix" film the machines are looked upon as "bad", and the humans as "good". However, at the end of the third film you see that the machines are made of light. They are "endowed with the very spirit of man."

So yes, I believe there are a group of people out there who we call the Neo-Cons. They want a world government where the very few rule the many. But they are still HUMAN. It is easy to be angry with them and feel hatred towards them, but hate only survives because we refuse to see the larger picture. We don't want to see ourselves in those people who oppress us. And in that way, they have already won by separating you from them. I could go on and on and on, but this should be enough for now.

Also, I'd like to point out that modern quantum mechanics describes our universe as "potential" and not "absolute", *unlike Newtonian physics. A great book to get started on that journey is "The Elegant Universe" by Brian Greene.

 

[phree]

Look at this post. I noticed that it got lost in all of the ego based assaults.

I thought about this last night and I see how divisive this has been. There were pro's and con's to doing this moneybomb as I thought to myself. But after careful consideration of the many variables discussed in here, I cannot support this project. Simply I feel donating on this day sends the wrong message.

Dr. King was not a politician. He was a peace activist and believe in equal rights for everybody. We are using his day (no matter how you look at it) as a political platform to donate money. It really isn't fitting and as a person of minority background, it leaves a sour taste in my mouth. I think it should be used for some other means besides raising money. I kinda feel it would be exploitative. Let Dr. King have his day without interference especially as it involves raising money.


I will find another event/thing to support.

 

[ForLiberty-RonPaul]

Anyway, my point is FACTS are indeed black and white. Everything else is just how you choose to take it, and how you chose to present facts to defend your case.

Though I agree with you on many things, facts are not black and white. Every "fact" you have ever learned was from someone's point of view. You cannot observe without altering what you have observed.

 

[Dieseler]

Yeah, I read the last three posts from you about this. I can see the headlines now:

The Martin Luther King Jr. Center for Non-Violent Social Change Sues Ron Paul Supporters for Non-Violent Social Change


Or not.

Fact remains, they have not endorsed Dr. Paul.

They have sued before over similar things.

If its a respectable pull on your money bomb day I wouldn't rule out a call, Lmao.

 

[chandlerLBT]

Look at this post. I noticed that it got lost in all of the ego based assaults.

It didn't get lost, look at my replies directly to that quote.

EDIT: Here they are, along with his reply:

Your race or ethnicity makes no difference in this situation. Neither does Dr. Kings. The people who donate on this day will be donating because Dr. King was the leader of the first American nonviolent revolution, and because Dr. King was a known advocate for freedom. I will be celebrating these parallels between Dr. King and Dr. Paul on MLK Day by donating to Ron Paul's campaign.

Tell that to people who are of minority background. Go into a black community and say this.

Say to them that Dr. King and Dr. Paul are extraordinary similar.

You really think you will be met with an open embrace?

I am social worker and I have worked in various minority neighborhoods. I can guarantee you will be met with more hostility than politeness. That's a promise!

It's not my fault you would intentionally put yourself into a group and pretend to speak for this group, especially in a situation like this. So you're saying that because Ron Paul is white and Martin Luther King Jr. is black, that if I went into a "black community" they would say there is no way any parallels would fit with these two? That's bull shit. If you want to put yourself into a group go ahead, but don't speak for anyone else.


Race has ZERO to do with this money bomb.

 

[Wayne Hammond]

Not everything a teacher teaches is wrong. Just because you're pure anti-establishment does not make you better than the establishment. All it means is everything they have wrong you have right, and everything they have right you have wrong.

I'm agnostic. I don't believe that anyone is purely good. And I don't believe that anyone is purely evil. Not because my teacher taught me. But because when you think about it, one person's belief of what's good and evil is not the same as another person's belief of what's good and evil. There is no absolute, unless you belief in a God(s). In which case, you believe that your God(s) is/are the only one(s) who know(s) what is truly good and what is truly evil and you are the only one besides your God(s) who know(s) what is truly good and what is truly evil (and what degree of evil and good each and every thing is).

Some very well-thought out arguments there, Chandler. You stated that "there is no absolute, unless you believe in a God"...

You're on the right track there. Either there are no absolutes, or there are absolutes... it has to be one or the other. The question is "where do we find the answer - the final authority for answering this question?" - is it with human logic (in other words, the human mind is our final authority) or is it with a supreme Being (God [or - the Bible] is our final authority).

Many great minds have given great thought to that question. For those who claim the human mind is the final authority, all sorts of deviant behavior can be then justified... Karl Marx thought this way, and his followers have caused an untold amount of suffering and death in the last century as a direct result of secular humanism.

For those who believe that a Supreme Being rules over mankind, well, they answer to a higher authority Who cannot be swayed by the changing times or the frivolity of a man's mind.

There is an absolute Truth; the Founding Fathers acknowledged it, and believed in it.

The Declaration of Independence states that "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

Our Founding Fathers believed in a Creator, stating in The Declaration, that they had a strong belief and "firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence".

Something to think about.

.

 

[chandlerLBT]

Some very well-thought out arguments there, Chandler. You stated that "there is no absolute, unless you believe in a God"...

You're on the right track there. Either there are no absolutes, or there are absolutes... it has to be one or the other. The question is "where do we find the answer - the final authority for answering this question?" - is it with human logic (in other words, the human mind is our final authority) or is it with a supreme Being (God [or - the Bible] is our final authority).

Many great minds have given great thought to that question. For those who claim the human mind is the final authority, all sorts of deviant behavior can be then justified... Karl Marx thought this way, and his followers have caused an untold amount of suffering and death in the last century as a direct result of secular humanism.

For those who believe that a Supreme Being rules over mankind, well, they answer to a higher authority Who cannot be swayed by the changing times or the frivolity of a man's mind.

There is an absolute Truth; the Founding Fathers acknowledged it, and believed in it.

The Declaration of Independence states that "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

Our Founding Fathers believed in a Creator, stating in The Declaration, that they had a strong belief and "firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence".

Something to think about.

.

Okay. Theism is not what makes morals and ethics. They are learned, just as religion is learned. Just because I do not fear going to hell does not mean I will make immoral decisions. And plenty of theists have used their holy books as ways to impose or justify their own immoral beliefs onto others. Like slavery, for instance. Absence of religion is not the absence of morals, that's just silly.

And sorry, not all of our founding fathers were theists. Ben Franklin for example, was an atheist, and actually mocked and ridiculed those who believed in a God.