Extremely extremely dissappointed

[Corydoras]

Here is a link to the bill:
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h110-3217

Here's the red meat:

LIMITATION ON ISSUANCE OF STUDENT AND DIVERSITY IMMIGRANT VISAS TO ALIENS WHO ARE NATIONALS OF SAUDI ARABIA OR COUNTRIES THAT SUPPORT TERRORISM OR ARE NOT COOPERATING FULLY WITH UNITED STATES ANTITERRORISM EFFORTS.

(a) Limitation on Issuance of Student Visas- Notwithstanding any other provision of law, an alien may not be granted a visa for study in the United States under subparagraph (F), (J), or (M) of section 101(a)(15) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(15)) without review by the President if the alien is a national of Saudi Arabia or a designated country.

(b) Limitation on Issuance of Diversity Immigrant Visas- Notwithstanding any other provision of law, an alien may not be granted an immigrant visa under section 203(c) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1153(c)) (relating to diversity immigrants) without review by the President if the alien is a national of Saudi Arabia or a designated country.

 

[srmpass98]

President decides. I'm aware of this bill as it has been linked to me several times.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

That being said, allow me to elaborate. First, if you have followed the campaign as I have, Ron Paul has never uttered the word, "Terrorist Nation", and I can see why as it alienates a lot of people that might live in that country.

Second, the idea that the student visa is limited to the nationality of an individual is preposterous owing to the fact that the phenomenon of terrorism has noting do do with nations but an individuals perspective on a certain ideology.
...
Also, I never insinuated that Dr Paul is a racist in any way. I think he has the best intentions at heart, its just that this ad and this new turn of events is more to do with an overzealous approach or just confusion on the part of a few supporters like me.

I don't recall one way or the other if Ron Paul has used the phrase "terrorist nation", but I am not surprised at the direction taken at this time. He has talked quite a bit about how some Saudi Arabian nationals were terrorists, and maybe he wants the list of terrorist nations updated.

You never mentioned racism or race, but you did mention ethnicity and background. As we have seen, many people equate them. And many others do cry "racism". I am glad that your intent is not to use that in regard to Dr. Paul.

 

[LukeNM]

srmpass98 you my friend are over reacting! We need to get things under control then revisit the issue.

 

[rockwell]

China is not open to immigration. No law or regulations are set permitting immigration. A foreigner is only allowed to reside here for reasons of work, study, travel, or marriage over a certain period of time.

Here we provide the following information for your reference:

Long Term Green Card
http://www.china.org.cn/english/Life/56804.htm

New Visa Rules for Foreigners
http://www.china.org.cn/english/Life/36683.htm

A brief Introduction to Chinese Visa and the Procedure for Visa Application
http://www.china.org.cn/english/Life/34355.htm

I don't live "under a rock", in fact I have lived in Panama City, Hong Kong, Manila, and Cairo for various periods of time, and I know what I'm talking about, as opposed to the poster who jumped my post saying that China has an immigration policy when it doesn't.

Hope that helped.

 

[DAFTEK]

Yes, I noticed right away that he didn't say that he is an American of Pakistani birth or Pakistani ethnicity.

Not meaning to slam anyone, but shortly after Pearl Harbor, huge numbers of Americans of Japanese ancestry who happened to also be subjects of the Empire of Japan gave up their Japanese citizenship as an active demonstration of their undivided loyalty to the United States. They also objected to being called Japanese-Americans (they didn't like the implication of being half and half) and insisted on being called either Japanese Americans (no hyphen, i.e. Americans who are Japanese) or, more clearly, Americans of Japanese ancestry.

I wish more contemporary immigrants felt that way.

So why do we still have African Americans? no offense to anyone out there but i always wondered about that, i don't call myself Romanian American, nor American Romanian, i am an American citizen so i call myself American. I don't get it, we should take note and learn from Australia's president, who said all citizens or not you don't like go back to were ever you came from.... You are in Australia you are an Australian! I can't stand it when i go to Lowe's and i see big huge EXIT letters and ENTER and underneath that same words in Spanish, come on are Spanish people that smart to come here illegally but to dumb to know the word EXIT or ENTER....WTF is going on in this country? I am all for the student visa scrutiny from all nations... and protect our interests here at home and stop butting in other country's problems...

Romanian people killed Ceausescu by themselfs after the people wore treated like dogs for so many years, no help from the police of the world and today is one of the fastest growing easter European Country's....

 

[VoteRonPaul2008]

He sees all people as equal remember in the very first debate he said they attack us because we're over there.. I don't think he meant this the way your taking it.. what he means is we need to enforce the visa rules bc the terrorists that were here weren't citzens.. I don't think he means it as all people from this country or that country are terrorits.. remember he is the only candidate that said our intervention has caused us many ills.. he doesn't blame religon like ALL of the other candidates

 

[jblosser]

HR 3217, introduced by Ron on July 27, 2007, begins:



CAN WE AGREE that this indicates his traditional position is to limit issuance of student visas to a list of nations, and that the list of nations is reasonably clear in the text of the legislation?

And CAN WE THEREFORE AGREE that the only outstanding question this ad raises is the use of the language "no more" instead of "limited with review"?

I am working on geting that question answered right now by people in a position to talk authoritatively and will post an answer as soon as I have one.

I got through to a member of the immediate family who was sitting by Ron while I talked to him, unfortunately he went out for a bike ride before we got to this question.

The family member's opinion is that Ron's position has not changed from what it has always been and while he hasn't seen the ad yet he'd assume like we do that the language is due to the audience and amount of time available in an ad. He's working on getting someone to do an official response.

I know this won't be good enough for some but it's what I have so far... right now the answer is that if you want to know Ron's position, go read HR 3217 and don't sweat the ad.

 

[jblosser]

I got through to a member of the immediate family who was sitting by Ron while I talked to him, unfortunately he went out for a bike ride before we got to this question.

Ron Paul confirms his views on immigration HAVE NOT CHANGED:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=68913

 

[Jeremiah]

Look, I'm going to be very honest with you. Its the religion for the individual, not the nation in question. I say this as a Muslim (as inferred from where I was born). Too often the uneducated hijack the religion and interpret it to their own means, and its not a national problem, its an individual problem. That is why I feel we should put more focus on the person, not the nation.

That is why I believe blanket refusal is harmful. Its done for the wrong reasons!

Here is a thought from a Christian in Scotland. Your question is reasonable and your responses have been temperate. I agree with you that this is very much an individual issue. Individual Muslims are being co-opted by members of their own faith to commit suicide/murder to further the ambitions of the same people who are sending young American soldiers to Iraq and Afghanistan to kill and die for "democracy".

We are the cannon fodder my friend and we are in this together. Never mind the restrictions on visas, they will always be issued as long as there are dishonest visa issuers. The criminals/terrorists will always find ways to get into the country and they will have the correct paper work. The people who are controlling them are well connected. Whenever they want to blow up another building or kill a few thousand more people they will arrange it and get some poor deluded believer to do it. If anyone here thinks otherwise then they haven't been paying attention in class.

The ONLY way to stop the insanity is to elect Dr. Paul and begin to put an end to the American Empire/world government nightmare. Eliminating their engine of power, the central bank network, starting with the Fed is a good beginning. Dr. Paul has already introduced all the necessary legislation in the House. All he has to do is activate the bills and use the power of the Presidency to get them through Congress. It won't happen overnight, it may take a few years and a lot more elections of Constitutionalist Congressmen and Senators but the overall plan is in place.

Isa (PBUH) said "You strain out gnats but you swallow camels". It is a very human trait. I hope this has helped you to find a way out of your dilemma.

 

[louisiana4liberty]

Using this same logic, other nations should not allow US students to obtain student visas. The US has financed terrorists. This is a fact. The US is therefore a terrorist nation as they define it. So all US students should not be given student visas to study in foreign nations.

I'm just pointing out how flawed it is to assign individuals as possible terrorists because of their nationality.

 

[tomveil]

Using this same logic, other nations should not allow US students to obtain student visas. The US has financed terrorists. This is a fact. The US is therefore a terrorist nation as they define it. So all US students should not be given student visas to study in foreign nations.

I'm just pointing out how flawed it is to assign individuals as possible terrorists because of their nationality.

You don't think that other countries already do this?

Really?

What would you have us do?

 

[NeoconPaulsupporter]

Maybe we shouldn't restrict student visas from terrorist supporting/harboring nations. Maybe we should lobby congress to declare war, so it's legal, and then bomb those. It would be constitutional, and it would be against nations supporting/harboring our enemies. Perfectly constitutional war. Or, we could try Ron Paul's far, far, far, more moderate approach.....

 

[0zzy]

Stop it!

Stop threatening not to donate!
Stop threatening not to vote!

This is our ONLY chance to get a good man in office!

And you want to fight over minescule things!
If you don't like his policies, fine, address them - when he is president!

Otherwise, student visas from "terrorist" nations will be the least of your worries.


SUPPORT.
DONATE.
VOTE.


We've been fighting long enough, this final hour we must stick together and get him elected.

 

[CJP]

Please don't overreact. Yes, there is a problem with one ad. It is inaccurate and needs to be fixed. To reflect Ron's actual position, it should have said "review all student visas from countries that are terrorist hot-spots", etc., but somebody grossly oversimplified when trying to fit it into an ad.

Give them a chance to fix this.

 

[noztnac]

You don't think that other countries already do this?

Really?

What would you have us do?

Screen individuals on a case by case basis rather than discriminating based on their being from "terrorist nations".

 

[ChooseLiberty]

Just noticed this thread and wanted to add that ironically most of the people educated in the US that return to their countries turn out to be great forces for moderation and freedom principles in those countries.

Sure some of them go whacko after seeing the "West", but the intelligent ones retain the good ideas they are exposed to just by living in the US.

The USA has a lot of problems, but it's even now, under the power-mad neocons, still a powerful example of democratic ideals. Educated people in the "third world" have definitely incorporated the Bill of Rights into their world view and even a lot of the poor ones know about "free speech" and "created equal".

Anyway, so you don't like the phrasing, who are you going to vote for?

 

[tomveil]

Screen individuals on a case by case basis rather than discriminating based on their being from "terrorist nations".

*whew*

Good thing that's what Ron Paul advocates.

 

[louisiana4liberty]

You don't think that other countries already do this?

Really?

What would you have us do?

Maybe other countries deny our students visas because we have sponsored terrorism? I haven't researched this. Do you have evidence that this is occurring? I was merely demonstrating that most Americans would disagree with a foreign nation's policy that would discriminate against American students. Blanket policies like this would serve to alienate America and increase the perception that we are hypocrites.

I think we could do background checks on each individual if relevant information is available. We could take into account information from our CIA and law enforcement and create a network to share criminal information with other nations. It may be difficult for some nations to provide criminal information, but maybe there could be more intensive checks for these applicants. The key is to minimize the risk of allowing a terrorist to enter using a student visa while not discriminating against an individual based on their nationality.

 

[tomveil]

Maybe other countries deny our students visas because we have sponsored terrorism? I haven't researched this. Do you have evidence that this is occurring? I was merely demonstrating that most Americans would disagree with a foreign nation's policy that would discriminate against American students. Blanket policies like this would serve to alienate America and increase the perception that we are hypocrites.

I think we could do background checks on each individual if relevant information is available. We could take into account information from our CIA and law enforcement and create a network to share criminal information with other nations. It may be difficult for some nations to provide criminal information, but maybe there could be more intensive checks for these applicants. The key is to minimize the risk of allowing a terrorist to enter using a student visa while not discriminating against an individual based on their nationality.

That's exactly what he's advocating!!!!

*oy*

And YES, there SHOULD be an extra layer of security. Anything else is irresponsible.

Once again, THIS IS NOT A BLANKET DENIAL BASED ON COUNTRY OF ORIGIN.

(Maybe I should just put that as my signature)