Egg a day tied to lower risk of heart disease

[lilymc]

Read what I said carefully, GOD built us so that he could turn on omnivorousness when conditions required it, it may have been switched off at first but it was switched on later.

We're really not though. In fact, that may the reason (or one of the reasons) that after the flood, the lifespan of man went down from several hundreds of years, to only 120 years, and then down from there. And now, things like cancer, heart disease and other illnesses are near epidemics… We are clearly not living the way we should be living. Perhaps we should go back to how God originally designed us?

Also, here's a video to watch:

Genesis 6 may or may not deal with fallen angels but it doesn't deal with meat eating.
I reject any extra-biblical texts that claim fallen angels taught men to eat meat for the following reasons:
1 GOD said to eat meat in Genesis 9
2 Christ fed the multitudes fish
3 GOD commanded the Israelites to perform many animal sacrifices and told them which animals they could and couldn't eat

GOD wouldn't have anything to do with something demonic.

Many of those extra biblical texts are referenced in the Bible. And since they are in harmony with the Scriptures on other things, I don't think we should dismiss the point that the fallen angels also taught mankind meat-eating.

Remember, the Bible is a deep book, and it is not always what we think it's saying at first glance. Sometimes you have to dig deeper. I'm saying this with Genesis 9 in mind.

Also, there are some very interesting scriptures which state – from God's perspective – that "lying scribes" changed God's word and God's laws. We know that the Israelites who came out of Egypt got used to many of the pagan practices they were accustomed to, and we know that they longed for meat, after they left Egypt. It wouldn't surprise me at all if certain people who God refers to as "lying scribes" changed God's law, to accommodate their desire for animal flesh.

But that is a big topic, and one that I still need to do a lot more studying on. Again, truth is not always what we expect it is. Sometimes you have to dig deep, and do so prayerfully, and God will show us.

GOD created all his creatures including man to be able to deal with the fallen world, all of the drawbacks of the fallen world will be recompensed to those humans and animals that make it to heaven with an increase of blessings to compensate for what they have suffered, in the mean time he specifically authorized man to eat meat to be healthy.

But that is not the case. The reality is, animals have a number of amazing qualities, including the ability to feel love, joy, playfulness, pain, suffering, fear… even boredom… How is it that they "deal with the fallen world" when they are clearly suffering and screaming for their life, as we butcher them, just so we can satisfy our taste buds?

Again, a perfect holy God of love would not intentionally create beings with all those qualities if He intended for them to live a painful life of exploitation, confinement and violent death. That is clearly not God's will.

 

[Swordsmyth]

[MENTION=37053]lilymc[/MENTION]

Luke 24

40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.

43 And he took it, and did eat before them.

NOTE THAT THIS WAS A FISH THAT WASN'T CREATED OUT OF THIN AIR BY CHRIST

Luke 22


7 Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed.

8 And he sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat.

9 And they said unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare?
10 And he said unto them, Behold, when ye are entered into the city, there shall a man meet you, bearing a pitcher of water; follow him into the house where he entereth in.
11 And ye shall say unto the goodman of the house, The Master saith unto thee, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples?
12 And he shall shew you a large upper room furnished: there make ready.
13 And they went, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover.
14 And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him.
15 And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:

16 For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.


The passover's central dish was a lamb, note that killing it is specifically mentioned and Christ says he will eat a passover fullfillment IN THE KINGDOM OF GOD. (presumably in heaven he will create the meat out of thin air as he did the fish when feeding the multitudes but he didn't do that here)


John 21

4 But when the morning was now come, Jesus stood on the shore: but the disciples knew not that it was Jesus.
5 Then Jesus saith unto them, Children, have ye any meat? They answered him, No.
6 And he said unto them, Cast the net on the right side of the ship, and ye shall find. They cast therefore, and now they were not able to draw it for the multitude of fishes.

7 Therefore that disciple whom Jesus loved saith unto Peter, It is the Lord. Now when Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he girt his fisher's coat unto him, (for he was naked,) and did cast himself into the sea.
8 And the other disciples came in a little ship; (for they were not far from land, but as it were two hundred cubits,) dragging the net with fishes.
9 As soon then as they were come to land, they saw a fire of coals there, and fish laid thereon, and bread.

10 Jesus saith unto them, Bring of the fish which ye have now caught.

11 Simon Peter went up, and drew the net to land full of great fishes, an hundred and fifty and three: and for all there were so many, yet was not the net broken.
12 Jesus saith unto them, Come and dine. And none of the disciples durst ask him, Who art thou? knowing that it was the Lord.

13 Jesus then cometh, and taketh bread, and giveth them, and fish likewise.


Here we have Christ helping the Apostles to kill fish and then cooking some and feeding them to the Apostles.


Acts 11

4 But Peter rehearsed the matter from the beginning, and expounded it by order unto them, saying,
5 I was in the city of Joppa praying: and in a trance I saw a vision, A certain vessel descend, as it had been a great sheet, let down from heaven by four corners; and it came even to me:
6 Upon the which when I had fastened mine eyes, I considered, and saw fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.

7 And I heard a voice saying unto me, Arise, Peter; slay and eat.

8 But I said, Not so, Lord: for nothing common or unclean hath at any time entered into my mouth.
9 But the voice answered me again from heaven, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
10 And this was done three times: and all were drawn up again into heaven.


Here we have Peter being commanded to slay and eat animals in a vision from heaven, if it wasn't proper to do so GOD would have made his point a different way.

 

[lilymc]

Lily, the Montanists were heretics and their heresy (Montanism) has been denounced by the entire Christian world for centuries. https://orthodoxwiki.org/Montanism

I'm sure you know that it's logical fallacy to dismiss a claim based on a person who states it. And that was just one example, the article talks about a number of early Christians who wrote the same thing, including Josephus and others.

Not to get too off topic here, but many people do not know that there was a big division in early Christianity, between vegetarians and meat eaters. We know who won out. But again, we're getting into other topics… And since this originally was a thread on eggs, I'm not going to get into all that here and now.

 

[Swordsmyth]

We're really not though. In fact, that may the reason (or one of the reasons) that after the flood, the lifespan of man went down from several hundreds of years, to only 120 years, and then down from there.

And with reduced health due to the loss of the ice canopy (and possibly other changes) meat became necessary in the human diet. (assuming it wasn't necessary after the fall)

And now, things like cancer, heart disease and other illnesses are near epidemics… We are clearly not living the way we should be living. Perhaps we should go back to how God originally designed us?

Something is changing but it isn't the eating of meat, man has been eating meet since Noah if not since Adam.

Also, here's a video to watch:

Pseudo science.
Man may be designed to eat more plants than many omnivores but we are designed to eat more meat than herbivores.

Many of those extra biblical texts are referenced in the Bible. And since they are in harmony with the Scriptures on other things, I don't think we should dismiss the point that the fallen angels also taught mankind meat-eating.

I can dismiss it because it would have GOD and Christ condoning and participating in DEMONIC activity.
Perhaps you should keep in mind what you point out below:

Also, there are some very interesting scriptures which state – from God's perspective – that "lying scribes" changed God's word and God's laws.

Remember, the Bible is a deep book, and it is not always what we think it's saying at first glance. Sometimes you have to dig deeper. I'm saying this with Genesis 9 in mind.

Also, there are some very interesting scriptures which state – from God's perspective – that "lying scribes" changed God's word and God's laws. We know that the Israelites who came out of Egypt got used to many of the pagan practices they were accustomed to, and we know that they longed for meat, after they left Egypt. It wouldn't surprise me at all if certain people who God refers to as "lying scribes" changed God's law, to accommodate their desire for animal flesh.

But that is a big topic, and one that I still need to do a lot more studying on. Again, truth is not always what we expect it is. Sometimes you have to dig deep, and do so prayerfully, and God will show us.

Lying scribes would like to make GOD and Christ seem to be guilty of participating in and condoning DEMONIC behavior, that is a setup for many different heresies, they would also like to make believers dumb and submissive (proven effects of vegetarianism on many people {note I am not accusing you of being dumb}) many cults impose vegetarianism on their victims.
It is far more likely that the vegetarianism is the pollution rather than the opposite.

But that is not the case. The reality is, animals have a number of amazing qualities, including the ability to feel love, joy, playfulness, pain, suffering, fear… even boredom… How is it that they "deal with the fallen world" when they are clearly suffering and screaming for their life, as we butcher them, just so we can satisfy our taste buds?

Again, a perfect holy God of love would not intentionally create beings with all those qualities if He intended for them to live a painful life of exploitation, confinement and violent death. That is clearly not God's will.

Many animals are enabled to deal with the fallen world by EATING OTHER ANIMALS.
GOD has authorized us to eat animals.
If you don't like how GOD runs things in this fallen world you need to take it up with him, just remember that he is perfect and has a good reason for everything he does even if you don't know or understand it.
Perfection will come in heaven, it isn't possible here.

 

[lilymc]

[MENTION=37053]lilymc[/MENTION]

Luke 24

40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.

43 And he took it, and did eat before them.

NOTE THAT THIS WAS A FISH THAT WASN'T CREATED OUT OF THIN AIR BY CHRIST

Luke 22


7 Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed.

8 And he sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat.

9 And they said unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare?
10 And he said unto them, Behold, when ye are entered into the city, there shall a man meet you, bearing a pitcher of water; follow him into the house where he entereth in.
11 And ye shall say unto the goodman of the house, The Master saith unto thee, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples?
12 And he shall shew you a large upper room furnished: there make ready.
13 And they went, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover.
14 And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him.
15 And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:

16 For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.


The passover's central dish was a lamb, note that killing it is specifically mentioned and Christ says he will eat a passover fullfillment IN THE KINGDOM OF GOD. (presumably in heaven he will create the meat out of thin air as he did the fish when feeding the multitudes but he didn't do that here)


John 21

4 But when the morning was now come, Jesus stood on the shore: but the disciples knew not that it was Jesus.
5 Then Jesus saith unto them, Children, have ye any meat? They answered him, No.
6 And he said unto them, Cast the net on the right side of the ship, and ye shall find. They cast therefore, and now they were not able to draw it for the multitude of fishes.

7 Therefore that disciple whom Jesus loved saith unto Peter, It is the Lord. Now when Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he girt his fisher's coat unto him, (for he was naked,) and did cast himself into the sea.
8 And the other disciples came in a little ship; (for they were not far from land, but as it were two hundred cubits,) dragging the net with fishes.
9 As soon then as they were come to land, they saw a fire of coals there, and fish laid thereon, and bread.

10 Jesus saith unto them, Bring of the fish which ye have now caught.

11 Simon Peter went up, and drew the net to land full of great fishes, an hundred and fifty and three: and for all there were so many, yet was not the net broken.
12 Jesus saith unto them, Come and dine. And none of the disciples durst ask him, Who art thou? knowing that it was the Lord.

13 Jesus then cometh, and taketh bread, and giveth them, and fish likewise.


Here we have Christ helping the Apostles to kill fish and then cooking some and feeding them to the Apostles.


Acts 11

4 But Peter rehearsed the matter from the beginning, and expounded it by order unto them, saying,
5 I was in the city of Joppa praying: and in a trance I saw a vision, A certain vessel descend, as it had been a great sheet, let down from heaven by four corners; and it came even to me:
6 Upon the which when I had fastened mine eyes, I considered, and saw fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.

7 And I heard a voice saying unto me, Arise, Peter; slay and eat.

8 But I said, Not so, Lord: for nothing common or unclean hath at any time entered into my mouth.
9 But the voice answered me again from heaven, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
10 And this was done three times: and all were drawn up again into heaven.


Here we have Peter being commanded to slay and eat animals in a vision from heaven, if it wasn't proper to do so GOD would have made his point a different way.

Swordsmyth, I've noticed that you are either ignoring or quickly glossing over numerous points I've brought up, but then you keep throwing up the same handful of scriptures that meat eaters always use. If you're not going to take much time to address the things I've said, then I'm not going to take the time to go over each of these points you brought up.

There are certain things that are undeniable. God commands us to be merciful. God commands us to love and treat others the way we want to be treated. You can argue that he meant that only for humans… But God created the animals too, they live here with us. We treat our dogs and cats like members of our family, we love and cherish them. Why would you apply love, kindness and the golden rule to your beloved dog, but not to another animal who is equally as intelligent and emotional? The Bible states that God's mercy extends to all creation. So why do we limit our mercy only to cats and dogs?

 

[lilymc]

And with reduced health due to the loss of the ice canopy (and possibly other changes) meat became necessary in the human diet. (assuming it wasn't necessary after the fall)



Something is changing but it isn't the eating of meat, man has been eating meet since Noah if not since Adam.

Pseudo science.
Man may be designed to eat more plants than many omnivores but we are designed to eat more meat than herbivores.




I can dismiss it because it would have GOD and Christ condoning and participating in DEMONIC activity.
Perhaps you should keep in mind what you point out below:




Lying scribes would like to make seem GOD and Christ be guilty of participating in and condoning DEMONIC behavior, that is a setup for many different heresies, they would also like to make believers dumb and submissive (proven effects of vegetarianism on many people {note I am not accusing you of being dumb}) many cults impose vegetarianism on their victims.
It is far more likely that the vegetarianism is the pollution rather than the opposite.





Many animals are enabled to deal with the fallen world by EATING OTHER ANIMALS.
GOD has authorized us to eat animals.
If you don't like how GOD runs things in this fallen world you need to take it up with him, just remember that he is perfect and has a good reason for everything he does even if you don't know or understand it.
Perfection will come in heaven, it isn't possible here.

Swordsmyth, you're much smarter than this.

Let's make this as simple as possible. Which one of these is more demonic: a) exploitation, violence, torture and killing, for selfish reasons… Or b) loving, valuing, and protecting all life? Please answer honestly.

 

[Swordsmyth]

Swordsmyth, I've noticed that you are either ignoring or quickly glossing over numerous points I've brought up, but then you keep throwing up the same handful of scriptures that meat eaters always use. if you're not going to take much time to address the things I've said, then I'm not going to take the time to go over each of these points you brought up.

I have tried to deal with all the points you bring up, perhaps you have missed some of my posts.
In any case if GOD and Christ condone and participate in eating meat and even meat from live animals that had to be killed then it can't be wrong.

There are certain things that are undeniable. God commands us to be merciful. God commands us to love and treat others the way we want to be treated. You can argue that he meant that only for humans… But God created the animals too, they live here with us. We treat our dogs and cats like members of our family, we love and cherish them. Why would you apply love, kindness and the golden rule to your beloved dog, but not to another animal who was is equally as intelligent and emotional? The Bible states that God's mercy extends to all creation. So why do we limit our mercy only to cats and dogs?

We should be as merciful as possible to those animals that we kill to eat but it is undeniable that GOD and Christ condoned and participated in eating meat and even killing live animals to get that meat.

 

[Swordsmyth]

Swordsmyth, you're much smarter than this.

Let's make this as simple as possible. Which one of these is more demonic: a) exploitation, violence, torture and killing, for selfish reasons… Or b) loving, valuing, and protecting all life? Please answer honestly.

Nearly every vice has an acceptable place and nearly every virtue has limits.
I love, value, and protect life as much as possible, "exploitation" isn't even a vice in and of itself, violence has its necessary place in the killing of animals for food in addition to the defense of one's self or others and the administration of justice, torture has no place except perhaps in the hands of GOD punishing the guilty, killing is part of violence.

I know that eating meat is not wrong because GOD and Christ said so not only in words but in deeds.

I'm done with this topic now, good night and GOD bless you.

 

[lilymc]

We should be as merciful as possible to those animals that we kill to eat but it is undeniable that GOD and Christ condoned and participated in eating meat and even killing live animals to get that meat.

You know, I was going to write out a reply to this, but there's just way too much to get into. Whole books have been written on this topic, so it's not something that we can adequately cover in a few paragraphs.

I mentioned this before, but I'll say it again. There was a big division in early Christianity, between vegetarians and meat eaters.

There is plenty of very compelling evidence that Jesus' brother James and a number of the disciples were vegetarian. Since the student can't be greater than the master, I think it would be very odd if Jesus was not a vegetarian, and I believe that for a number of reasons.

You may think this is crazy, but it is argued that certain passages were inserted in order to portray Jesus as carnivorous. That wouldn't surprise me at all, especially when the Bible itself states that lying scribes changed things. And when you consider that the heart of God – a heart of love, mercy and compassion – does not go along with putting ones tastebuds first, above the life of an animal who wants to live.

But again, there's way too much to this topic, and we are already way way way off the original topic.

Nearly every vice has an acceptable place and nearly every virtue has limits.
I love, value, and protect life as much as possible, "exploitation" isn't even a vice in and of itself, violence has its necessary place in the killing of animals for food in addition to the defense of one's self or others and the administration of justice, torture has no place except perhaps in the hands of GOD punishing the guilty, killing is part of violence.

I know that eating meat is not wrong because GOD and Christ said so not only in words but in deeds.

I'm done with this topic now, good night and GOD bless you.

We'll have to agree to disagree. But thank you for your replies, and for being calm and civil, as always. God bless you too.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

You know, I was going to write out a reply to this, but there's just way too much to get into. Whole books have been written on this topic, so it's not something that we can adequately cover in a few paragraphs.

I mentioned this before, but I'll say it again. There was a big division in early Christianity, between vegetarians and meat eaters.

There is plenty of very compelling evidence that Jesus' brother James and a number of the disciples were vegetarian. Since the student can't be greater than the master, I think it would be very odd if Jesus was not a vegetarian, and I believe that for a number of reasons.

You may think this is crazy, but it is argued that certain passages were inserted in order to portray Jesus as carnivorous. That wouldn't surprise me at all, especially when the Bible itself states that lying scribes changed things. And when you consider that the heart of God – a heart of love, mercy and compassion – does not go along with putting ones tastebuds first, above the life of an animal who wants to live.

But again, there's way too much to this topic, and we are already way way way off the original topic.





We'll have to agree to disagree. But thank you for your replies, and for being calm and civil, as always. God bless you too.

If you mean the gospels, not likely. The scribes of the Gospel narrative would've been dead by the time the Gospels were written down. Mark wasn't written till ~40 AD, Matthew ~70, etc. We also have multiple authentic copies of each Gospel.

 

[dannno]

I didn't actually make that claim. But it is true that meat eaters have a much higher obesity rate than vegans and vegetarians. It's just common sense that eating things like McDonald's, Kentucky fried chicken, and other greasy "food" (look at the people who eat that stuff… most of them are obese) is far more likely to lead to obesity and other health problems than eating a healthy plant-based diet. Plus, people who eat the SAD are probably on average less concerned with health in general, and exercise.

There is a documentary called "Fathead" that is a response to "Supersize Me"

The guy gets his medical tests, then goes and eats fast food including a lot of McDonalds every day for 30 days.

He loses weight and a lot of his tests come out better.

The reason is because people who eat fast food tend to get a sandwich, fries and a soda. A sandwich has bread which is starch, potatoes are pure starch and soda is pure sugar. This guy avoided the soda and drank water, and avoided the fries or got small fries and tried to eat high protein.

That's NOT the best diet, but the point is fast food often causes weight gain because of the way their meals are configured (sandwich, fries, soda), not because it is oily or greasy or has meat.

 

[specsaregood]

That's NOT the best diet, but the point is fast food often causes weight gain because of the way their meals are configured (sandwich, fries, soda), not because it is oily or greasy or has meat.

And it aint like they are using animal fat for frying that crap.

 

[farreri]

"IF YOU EAT ANYTHING THAT COMES FROM AN ANIMAL, THE HUMAN RACE DESERVES TO DIE!!"

Where did I ever come across sounding anything like this?

 

[farreri]

A few notes from the article:

Careful Zippy. Heavy meat eaters only want to hear good things about their bad habits.

 

[farreri]

New study that an egg a day reduces heart disease misleading?

- FOX News


Dr. Marc Seigel:
- Doesn't recommend eating an egg a day
- Eggs have too much cholesterol
- Recommends eating more fruits & vegetables
- Likes the carb-based Mediterranean & DASH diets
- Choose banana, strawberry, or avocado over eggs

The host seems disappointed the Doctor is not telling him good things about his bad eating habits.

 

[William Tell]

^ Case in point.

Carbs are only bad if you're eating things like cookies, Doritos, soda, etc. Eating a healthy, whole foods plant-based diet (which is a high carb diet, of the good variety) is a completely different story.

Excellent point. Could it be that there may be some good fats as well, and that eating a hormone filled factory pig and a free ranging deer may have completely different effects on health? I believe in healthy plants, I also believe in healthy meats. Almost none of those defending eating meats approve of factory farms, just like you like plants but hate Monsanto.

It has been said that the fallen angels (written about in Genesis 6 and in several extra-biblical texts) taught man to eat animal flesh. If that is true, then the origin of meat eating is demonic.

I'm sorry but I don't see how that's not inventing a sin and calling good evil. If eating meat is demonic then the countless verses that are approving or neutral on it show that either God is on the same side as the demons in this case, or the Bible is so hopelessly corrupted it can't be trusted on anything. I really have no problem with a person being vegan, and I wish nothing but health and happiness to us all regardless of diet. But labeling things demonic is a slippery slope and because of that I have to bring up this passage.

1 Timothy 4 King James Version (KJV)

4 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

I hope you're not thinking that the word meat in Genesis 1 means animal flesh. The word "meat" originally meant food, and that is why in most translations it says food. God's heart is and always has been for peace and harmony among all living beings, love, gentleness, respect for life. Not a brutal, selfish, bloody slaughterhouse in paradise. So to even imply otherwise is absurd.

Keeping sheep doesn't mean that they're killing and eating them. If that's what you think, then you are adding on to the text. God did not permit meat eating until after the flood, and even that is something that can be interpreted in different ways that, but that's another topic.

[SUP]3 [/SUP]And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the Lord.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the Lord had respect unto Abel and to his offering:

[SUP]5 [/SUP]But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.

So where is the verse saying God thought Abel was being brutal, selfish, and bloody? God clearly permitted killing sheep at least directly after the fall. Not just after the flood. Even if Abel did not eat flesh himself, God still approved of killing animals, it's right there in the text.

Edit I see Swordsmyth touched on this a little.

 

[donnay]

1 Timothy 4 King James Version (KJV)

4 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

"If it be received", is key. Then we go back to Leviticus 11 to see what God told us to be received.

In John 6:27 brings up "meat," but this verse does not mean we should stop working and let God feed you. That is why we need to study God's WORD and ask God for understanding. (II Timothy 2:15)

"Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed."

 

[lilymc]

Excellent point. Could it be that there may be some good fats as well, and that eating a hormone filled factory pig and a free ranging deer may have completely different effects on health? I believe in healthy plants, I also believe in healthy meats. Almost none of those defending eating meats approve of factory farms, just like you like plants but hate Monsanto.

More than 90% of all meat comes from factory farms, especially chickens and pigs, which is something like 98%. But I'm not even going to argue the health aspect of eating "healthy "meats. If you think it's healthy to eat a dead body, you do you. In my view, it is still merciless, cruel and unnecessary, whether the animal was "free range" or raised in a factory farm.

I'm sorry but I don't see how that's not inventing a sin and calling good evil. If eating meat is demonic then the countless verses that are approving or neutral on it show that either God is on the same side as the demons in this case, or the Bible is so hopelessly corrupted it can't be trusted on anything. I really have no problem with a person being vegan, and I wish nothing but health and happiness to us all regardless of diet. But labeling things demonic is a slippery slope and because of that I have to bring up this passage.

We've been over this before many times, and I really don't have the time right now to go over this in-depth again. Even if the Bible was not tampered with, it is undeniable that God's concession in regard to meat eating was not his original design/ perfect will. Just as divorce, polygamy, and numerous other things that God tolerates in this fallen world were not his original design. Should Christians aim for God's perfect will or God's permissive will?

It's not just my opinion that the fallen angels taught mankind to eat animal flesh. A number of early Christian writers talked about that, but as I said earlier, there was a big division in early Christianity, and the carnivore side won out. There are whole books written about this, it is a big topic, not one that we can cover in a few paragraphs on a message board.

Also, there are tons of verses that clearly state that God does not like animal sacrifices, including at least one that says he did not require them.

Why do you ignore those, and ignore the tons of verses that command us to be merciful, yet you cling to the "countless verses" having to do with meat… Why? That sounds like we are putting our stomachs and fleshly desires first, and finding all the verses that seem to justify that… As opposed to being truly interested in God's will, God's original design, and the actual truth, which often is not what we expect it is.

As for 1 Timothy 4, the word "meat" in those days meant food. I will find something on this passage, to elaborate on it, but for now I'll say we need to be careful about reading the Bible through a 21st century lens.

So where is the verse saying God thought Abel was being brutal, selfish, and bloody? God clearly permitted killing sheep at least directly after the fall. Not just after the flood. Even if Abel did not eat flesh himself, God still approved of killing animals, it's right there in the text.

Edit I see Swordsmyth touched on this a little.

You must've missed my reply to Swordsmyth. Nowhere in that verse does it say Abel killed a lamb. Do you honestly think that a God of love and mercy would be happy with a dead lamb? I posted an excerpt from an article that went over what a number of early Christian writers wrote about that passage, so if you didn't read it before, please go back and read my reply to Swordsmyth.

 

[lilymc]

Heavy meat eaters only want to hear good things about their bad habits.

So, so, so very true.

 

[William Tell]

More than 90% of all meat comes from factory farms, especially chickens and pigs, which is something like 98%. But I'm not even going to argue the health aspect of eating "healthy "meats. If you think it's healthy to eat a dead body, you do you. In my view, it is still merciless, cruel and unnecessary, whether the animal was "free range" or raised in a factory farm.

OK, so meat eaters can just discount all veggies because 90% of them are raised with pesticides.



We've been over this before many times, and I really don't have the time right now to go over this in-depth again. Even if the Bible was not tampered with, it is undeniable that God's concession in regard to meat eating was not his original design/ perfect will. Just as divorce, polygamy, and numerous other things that God tolerates in this fallen world were not his original design. Should Christians aim for God's perfect will or God's permissive will?

It's not just my opinion that the fallen angels taught mankind to eat animal flesh. A number of early Christian writers talked about that, but as I said earlier, there was a big division in early Christianity, and the carnivore side won out. There are whole books written about this, it is a big topic, not one that we can cover in a few paragraphs on a message board.

Also, there are tons of verses that clearly state that God does not like animal sacrifices, including at least one that says he did not require them.

Why do you ignore those, and ignore the tons of verses that command us to be merciful, yet you cling to the "countless verses" having to do with meat… Why? That sounds like we are putting our stomachs and fleshly desires first, and finding all the verses that seem to justify that… As opposed to being truly interested in God's will, God's original design, and the actual truth, which often is not what we expect it is.

There are tons of verses where God did demand animal sacrifices. I cling to the verses I do on this topic because they are actually about eating food. It has taken countless mental gymnastics and ignoring of verses along with speculations on mistranslation and tampering for you to make your case for Biblical veganism. The common man who reads the Bible will see that even Jesus ate meat. Food is just food. God knows whether we are truly interested in his will, and that does not hinge on what we eat. As far as original design goes God did not intend for women to have pain during reproduction, does that mean women should not get pregnant?

As for 1 Timothy 4, the word "meat" in those days meant food. I will find something on this passage, to elaborate on it, but for now I'll say we need to be careful about reading the Bible through a 21st century lens.

OK, but meat is a type of food, so the verse totally applies to what you are doing. You think Paul actually meant that in the latter days some bad people would forbid veggies but it goes without saying the holy people would say meat is demonic?

But once again the problem is you have already had to make excuses for dozens of other verses. It doesn't get much clearer than saying that Jesus ate Passover and Fish but you had excuses for those too. It would be easier to just reject what the Bible says about meat altogether and say you've chosen your own path on that than to make a solid biblical case for veganism. Or just say your personal convictions on verses on mercy cause you to apply that to your food choices. When you go out saying people's diets are demonic I kind of have to rebut it even if I have before.

You must've missed my reply to Swordsmyth. Nowhere in that verse does it say Abel killed a lamb. Do you honestly think that a God of love and mercy would be happy with a dead lamb?

Lily... read the Bible. Countless verses refer to making an offering of lambs. This would be the first and only one that did not involve a dead lamb. Our God of love and mercy was happy with the dead lamb he provided in place of Isaac. It's fine if you want to be Vegan. It's not fine that you are implying God is not loving and merciful if he does not hold to your emotional position on animals.

I posted an excerpt from an article that went over what a number of early Christian writers wrote about that passage

Well, if you can find early Christian writers that agreed with you on something I guess you win just like all the Catholics posting early Church Fathers quotes.