Dr. Paul's Realistic Chances?

[NoPants]

Here are a couple links to some messages directly from Dr. Paul that address the question of his chances of securing the nomination:

http://ronpaul2008.typepad.com/ron_paul_2008/2008/01/message-from--2.html
http://ronpaul2008.typepad.com/ron_paul_2008/2008/01/you-say-you-wan.html

A couple other articles you may find of interest. I have a very good friend who if from Arizona and graduated from ASU. He is also a big McCain supporter and we regularly discuss the issues of this election together. He like Dr. Paul's ideas, but believes he must vote for McCain since he has the best chances of winning. Today he sent me these 3 articles, and mentioned that they had a lot of powerful information he had not heard before. I believe he is doing some soul searching today in trying to understand the same things as you.

http://wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=59938
http://people.ronpaul2008.com/campa...taxpayers-union-only-paul-would-cut-spending/
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpa... Topics/Subjects/P/Presidential Elections (US

Hope this is helpful.

 

[Todd]

What chance of winning did McCain have 4 months ago? Everybody said he was dead in the water.

That is one heck of a point....Of course he has no money....so I guess the Media Darling is resurgent!!! How is No Cash going to work in the next month?

 

[JS4Pat]

The founding Fathers assumed people would vote based on who they thought would be the best for the country, not based on who they thought could win. This dynamic would have confounded the Founding Fathers and they probably would have questioned thier ideas about freedom, liberty and democracy. If someone with more "power" than the individual, can influence the individual, outside of thier stance on the issues, then our system is fundamentally broken. It leaves room for those in power to influence the right people to keep their power right where it is.

That was a great post!

I look back at how many times I have heard people complain about politics, politicians, The govt, and how they wished someone with honesty and integrity would run for office. I look back at how many times I heard people complain about how the gov't should butt out and stop thier overtaxing and overspending ways. Then we get Ron Paul who answers thier calls, almost as if the Universe Produced him just to give them what they had been asking for for so long, and they duck thier heads in the sand and continue to support the people who they complain about day and night.

That is why almost no Ron Paul supporters WILL answer the GOP's call to please just vote for the lesser of two evils in November.

Besides, personally I can't even determine the lesser evil when it comes to McWar or Clinton.

 

[newmedia4ron]

John McCain is a liberal lol why not support a democrat instead?

 

[N13]

Question: How is McCain going to pay for his wars? Will he increase taxes or borrow from foreign interests? How long will it take for McCain to bankrupt our economy? His plans to eliminate pork will buy him a few extra months in Iraq...

McCain is not a fiscal conservative, he is a big government spender. His misguided views would amount to a trainwreck if he were electable.

 

[Sarge]

Welcome,

There have been good reasons posted, that I agree with, so I won't go over them.

I am 69 and have voted for McCain and will never vote for him again. I live in AZ and fail to see why people will not wake up that this country is going down the tubes. The most worried I have been in all my years of investing.

McCain is willing to have 100 more years of war. Our dollar is crashing, and we can not afford that kind of money. To do what he and the others want to do will require a draft, more soldiers killed and for what? Oil that we already have in Alaska? More amnesty? More trillions of debt thrown on our children?

One of our sons is a Border Patrol Agent in AZ, and I do know what is going on in AZ. If McCain is elected, I feel his job will be much harder. My wife and I stand behind Dr. Paul the whole way, brokered convention or what ever it takes to take back America before it goes broke.

 

[Drknows]

What are Dr. Paul's Realistic Chances?

 

[OutsiderJoe]

I appreciate all the responses. Unfortunately, however, the sheer number of them means I'll have to respond in generalities rather than in point-by-point fashion as is warranted (and due to you as respect for the often lengthy responses). I apologize.

Grassroots can't do everything, folks. I know someone (Bradley in DC?) indicated that the problem was with HQ and that has been resolved. Let me say then, clearly: if the Ron Paul campaign was as well managed as a campaign with enthusiastic supporters like you guys deserves, I think he would be doing much better in the polls. I still wouldn't support him -- I just don't think non-interventionism, among other things, is a policy that the Founders of the Constitution would apply to today's world (we can debate this, if you'd like, of course) -- but I can damn well agree with you that his polling numbers might be a bit better if he'd gotten an Ed Rollins or two.

I think Ron Paul's greatest legacy might be you. The movement. I just don't think he can win an election but I do think that ten years down the road Ron Paul Republicans might make up a sizeable contingent in the Congress and state assemblies.

More soon (I hope -- damn corporate dilligence filings).

Joe

 

[Dan Klaus]

Outsider Joe,
Please check out Dr. Pauls platform on the various issues at http://www.ronpaullibrary.org/

Its a great resource if you want to check Dr. Pauls stance on taxes, abortion, monetary policy, you name it...might be a good comparison resource when sizing up McCain and Dr. Paul in terms of conservative policy....

Nothing but respect for John McCain and his service...like you I don't like ad hominen attacks on him.... but I personally don't feel he would make a good president after the 'bomb, bomb, bomb iran' joke...burka comments in the debate..using racially charged words about asians, wanting to stay in course in Iraq...for me, these type of things turn me away from him...

Hope you stick around and post....nice to have real discussion....

 

[davidfarrar]

He can win. John McCain is no republican. If the election boils down to soundbites, and the GOP nominates anyone else for the General election, they are finished. Elect a guy that tried to grant amnesty to 12 million people, thats something even most democrats oppose. Then you have Romney, who at one time claimed he was more liberal than Ted Kennedy.

So those are your choices? The GOP has 5 days to pull it's head out of it's ass and return to it's roots. And you can't do that with McCain, Romney or Huckabee.

All these guys will Talk on and on about Regan. Well you know what? Ron Paul gave the Republican party Ronald Regan. Look it up sometime. If reading even means a god damn thing to anyone anymore. Regan endorsed Paul back in the 80's, and you know what? Ron Paul still hasn't change his stance on one single issue. I bet if Regan was alive today, he'd endorse him again.

The GOP is finished without Ron Paul. No other candidate is a statesman like him. While every coward in America is worried about terrorists hiding in their front lawns, everything that Ron Paul said was going to happen to the US economy 10 years ago is happening right now.

It'll be interesting to watch any democrat rip Romney and McCain to shreds over every issue they flopped on. Or maybe they won't, since both Romney and McCain's voting records are right in line with Hillary Clinton's. Either of those two get the nod, we'll have a socialistic president, and a socialistic congress. For 8 years most likely. And that will be the GOP's fault.

I will not ever Blame this election on Liberal mischif, or Socialist ideas, I will blame the GOP, I will never vote republican again after this, and I will never donate to the GOP again. The Republican Party strayed so far from the Platform that they act and behave like every other democrat that wanted to "Make the World Safe for Democracy", at the expense of our economy and our Middle class. It is the Republican fault we are here. They broke their "contract with America", they spent more than any democratic Administration ever did. They Spoke out against going into Kosovo, and yet championed the cause in Iraq. They Slaughtered Habeas Corpus, They created a whole new Government Bureaucracy, and they doubled the Dept ed, nearly doubled the Dept of energy, Said that The Medicare Prescription drug Benefit would cost 100-300 billion dollars, it wound up costing over 1 trillion, and didn't make drugs any cheaper. Un-fucking-believable.

Oh yeah, Republicans are all about Smal Government arn't they, They're all for Liberty and Freedom What a crock of shit. Go Ahead, vote for the one Idea you think is Republican (The Unconstitutional War), And think about how much like Bill Clinton you've become.

Keep beating the war drum, it won't make any difference. The economy is crashing. Even as every idiotic pundit says "Look at the Dow, it's up today, see the economy is doing fine" As if 30 companies that are owned by foreigners can drive our 13 trillion dollar economy.

As the dollar goes, so will the war, the two are tied. Hopefully after that happen the US will Balkanize, and at least that will give real conservatives a chance to form a prosporus nation again. And Once again, if that happens, It will be the GOP's fault. They Had the Reigns, they fucked it up. I don't give a shit what any pundit says.

Look, whoever you are...you are no Republican, you probably never have been.
When have you attended your last local Republican Party meeting?
When have you even gone there and stated your objections?
When was the last time you went to your own local Republican Party meeting and asked them if they had any questions on Dr. Paul's conservative ideals?
Have you ever even placed your name on the ballot to became a Republican Party official?
Lastly, now tell us the truth: R U a registered Republican?

 

[Bilgefisher]

I understand what you are saying, but you do not understand what we are saying. This is not about Ron Paul. He is simply the messenger. Will it be easier to deliver the message if he is in the white house. Yes it will. If he doesn't make it, the message will still be delivered by the millions that now support our cause of freedom and liberty. Its not about one man, its about a nation.

Mark my words. John McCain will never sit as president of the U.S. It requires our support to get there and he will not have it. Do you really believe a pro war candidate can win when 70% of the nation is antiwar. I don't think were the ones being delusional here.

 

[aravoth]

Look, whoever you are...you are no Republican, you probably never have been.
When have you attended your last local Republican Party meeting?
When have you even gone there and stated your objections?
When was the last time you went to your own local Republican Party meeting and asked them if they had any questions on Dr. Paul's conservative ideals?
Have you ever even placed your name on the ballot to became a Republican Party official?
Lastly, now tell us the truth: R U a registered Republican?

I have no fucking clue who you are, and the answer to your stupid assed questions is yes. Figure out who your talking too before you start saying dumb shit like this.

 

[noztnac]

Nominate McCain and you will unwittingly elect Hillary!

Ron Paul is the only Republican candidate who can win in the general election. All of the others will get trounced in the general election. 75% plus Americans want us out of Iraq. Consider your vote carefully.

 

[zadrock]

It's more than just Ron Paul. Even if McCain somehow gets the nomination, we all will go to work in our Congressional districts. Last I checked, there were 30 "Ron Paul Republicans" running for Congress. There are probably more now. Murray Sabrin is a RPR running for Senate in NJ. If he gains a Senate seat, watch out. He'll be the Ron Paul of the Senate, which is WAY more powerful (filibuster).

This movement is about more than just one man. Ron Paul understands that better than anybody. Look at how he's changed the conversation - last night, the other three candidates all mentioned how much we borrow from the Chinese before Paul brought it up. Gee, where'd they get that idea? (Ironically, Paul was the first to say "9/11" but that's only because a certain someone didn't show up.)

I think Dr. Paul has a much better chance of winning the nomination than most people think. I also think the Giants have a much better chance on Sunday than most people think. Doesn't mean that either one will win, but it would suprise me much less than it would surprise everyone else.

Z

 

[Elwar]

We follow Ron Paul's lead.

Do you think when Ron Paul is the only voice voting "no" against higher taxes or an unbalanced budget he's thinking...what are the chances that my vote will be with the majority...

When Ron Paul votes against Unconstitutional abuses of power do you think he's weighing in on the fact that he might end up voting in the minority?

No, it's about principles. Some people have them (Ron Paul and his supporters)...some people don't *cough McCain/Kennedy*.

 

[MsDoodahs]

Id rather vote for a winner and lose than vote for a loser and win.

This is a movement not something we plan on walking away from if Ron Paul loses a nomination to some neocons.

We do not plan on supporting any other republican candidate. Its Ron Paul or Nobody for most of us. Some plan on switching parties and voting against your nominee but they wont leave this movement.

^^ What he said.

Saw you're an aspiring politician yourself.

If you ever decide to embrace individual freedom, let us know, because as the GOP dies, the Ron Paul Freedom Movement is born.

 

[Bilgefisher]

Look, whoever you are...you are no Republican, you probably never have been.
When have you attended your last local Republican Party meeting?
When have you even gone there and stated your objections?
When was the last time you went to your own local Republican Party meeting and asked them if they had any questions on Dr. Paul's conservative ideals?
Have you ever even placed your name on the ballot to became a Republican Party official?
Lastly, now tell us the truth: R U a registered Republican?

Woah, easy on Aravoth. He has done more for the Ron Paul movement then any ten people combined. His videos have inspired Literally millions.

 

[MsDoodahs]

Nominate McCain and you will unwittingly elect Hillary!

It is not 'unwittingly' AT ALL. Months ago, I was told by a GOP party leader that the GOP GOAL is to LOSE this election - to Hillary. The people will hate her and the programs she instates will cause major financial problems for the nation.

The GOP will "sweep" back into power - Congress and the WH - in 2012.

Every single thing I've seen the GOP do leads me to conclude that the man knew exactly what he was talking about.

 

[hrdman2luv]

Outsider Joe. Again, welcome to the forums. I see you haven't posted an answer to one posters question. So I might be wasting my time doing this. But, just in case you reading and not replying. Here goes:

I'm not sure how much reasearch you have done on either Ron Paul or John McCain. I, on the other hand, have done extencive amounts on both their voting records. And to be quite honest with you, when they call McCain a liberal, according to his voting record, they are not all wrong. McCain has quite a liberal voting record.
In doing this research, I pay close attention to how other voted as well. Because if a bill hit's the media before it gets voted on, or after a congressman anounces his bid for the Presidentcy, congress tends to vote for the public. On bills that are not in the media, congress tends to vote for either how they feel, or who's paying the most.

Anyways, back to McCains voting record. If you will do just a little research, you will find that Hillary Clinton and John McCains voting records are very similiar. At least on the big spending bills. (that are dated BEFORE they anounced their run for the Presidentcy)

Voting record voting record voting record.....

Ron Paul has never voted to raise taxes, to allow welfare to illegals, a pay raise, gun restrictions, over-spending, Iraq, NAFTA, CAFTA, and just about every bill that places more restrictions on "We the People'.

In doing the McCain's research, you will find that he has voted to spend huge amounts of money for foriegn issues. But, has voted to cut funding for things here in the USA. (aka agriculture, energy, medicare, Social Security, and other things that this country needs. Especially since there isn't a viable solution at the moment to abolish them. So cutting alot of the funding for them is too dangerous)

Ron Paul's voting record stands alone.
Ron Pauls voting record here: http://www.vote-smart.org/bio.php?can_id=296

Also, here is a page that you can access to see some bills that Ron Paul authored: If you agree with these bills, you should ask yourself, why didn't John McCain co-sponcor, or even endorse: http://www.thomas.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery

John McCains voting record here: http://www.vote-smart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=53270&type=category&category=10&go.x=7&go.y=10

I hope this helps.

 

[NoPants]

I do believe -- and here is likely where you and I will part ways, ultimately -- that it is more important for the person you believe will be the best President than the person you believe best represents your views. So, while I disagree with John McCain on abortion (I'm moderate-to-pro-choice) and gay rights (I'm pro-gay marriage) and immigration (I'm for securing the borders and not granting special permissions), I believe John McCain has the character to be a great President. I'm sure many of you disagree. I respect that. (Oh, and as a side note, I've taken the quizzes and, yes, my views are closest to Dr. Paul's views.)

Securing the borders, ok. Not granting special permissions? McCain is not your guy if that's how you feel. There are too many sources to quote for this one, just go to Google News and search for "McCain amnesty", here's a link to the search:

http://news.google.com/news?um=1&hl=en&resnum=4&ct=title&q=mccain+amnesty&btnG=Search+News

McCain is for amnesty. He may not be saying it now since it's not popular for a Republican presidential candidate, but his record proves otherwise.

--

In answer to supporting McCain on gay rights, see the article below. Dr. Paul has been endorsed by GayWired Media becaule: "Paul won’t go out on a limb for our community, but as a Libertarian whose legacy will show he fought to stay out of American's personal lives, he won't be digging around for ways to limit our civil liberties."

Source: http://www.gaywired.com/article.cfm?section=66&id=18013

--

On the issue of abortion, Dr. Paul is pro-life, but he firmly believes that the federal government has no place passing laws to force us one way or the other.

“ I am strongly pro life. Life begins at conception ... but, I do not believe this should be a federal matter. All issues of life and violence and crime and murder are dealt with at the local level. ” - Dr. Paul

Source: http://www.ronpaul2008.com/issues/life-and-liberty/



Hope all that helps too.