Dr. Paul's Realistic Chances?

[gjdavis60]

Win or lose, we're not going away because this is not just about a presidential election.

What I used to believe about government and politics I was fed by the media. I believed the stories I was told about the differences between "conservatives" and "liberals". I thought it mattered whether I voted for a Republican or a Democrat. But I honestly didn't pay much attention to politics. I did as I was told. And that was my fault.

Then I heard about Dr. Paul and began to read what he had written and listened to his speeches. And everything changed. I realized what I had been told about our government was simply the version that the people in power wanted me to hear. I realized that there was another version; one which made a lot more sense and was much more consistent with our founding principles; one that respected every individual and favored none.

Now I know that it doesn't really matter which establishment candidates are running for the presidency because compared to Dr. Paul, they are indistinguishable. So, I don't care if McCain gets the nomination over Romney, or if Clinton wins the general election against a Republican. I won't be sucked into hypothetical discussions of which establishment politician is better because the topic is irrelevant. They are all the same. Thay are all in it for themselves. They all stand for the abomination that our federal government has become.

It may take some time, but this perverse orgy of greed and dishonesty masquerading as a constitutional government will be brought down. Dr. Paul started this movement, but win or lose, it will not end with him. As long as the message circulates, Americans will be captivated and compelled by its simple and powerful truth. We will prevail. We have to.

 

[seapilot]

A vote for McCain is a vote for Hillary or Obama as 2006 was the big wake up to republicans to change thier tune.

McCain is a trojan horse( war democrat) his voting record is basically in par with Hillary Clintons. He helped kill drilling for oil in ANWR while he wants to keep troops securing "oil intrests" in the middle east for the next 100 years. McCain also voted against Bushes tax cuts in the begining, so dont go counting on taxes to be cut again for a long time.

We are voting for Ron Paul not by his name recognition or his chances of winning but that his past record and values represents liberty and freedom. Does McCains record represent that? It is immoral for us to vote for someone like McCain or Hillary that represents less liberty and freedom for tommorow than we even lack today.

 

[MsDoodahs]

Mod disagreement. Moving to General Politics. lol...

 

[Rhys]

btw, original poster, you're brave for entering the fanboi den!

lol Hot Topics? Is this the way we sway people's votes? By sending their threads to the depths of "truther" hell?

 

[Sarah]

Re: the actual question. Dr. Paul's Realistic Chances?

I have to admit that when I first started to learn about RP I loved his message from the start...but felt that he wasn't heard enough and wasn't aggressive enough for me to have the confidence in him actually winning the Presidency. I felt though...at least his message is getting out there and ppl are listening.

I learned to look at the debates differently and see the less aggressiveness as a plus for RP...and I like it. I've re watched videos and he is not a man to come across harshly...it's not his nature. In the big picture I see this as a good thing and I feel now that his chances are good.

I don't know how ppl can support the candidates that are fighting all the time...it's hard for me to even listen to it. It's refreshing to see a candidate ...Ron Paul...come across without the personal attack approach.

So yes ...now I do think he has a realistic chance because his message is honest and that comes through loud and clear to me. JMHO

 

[aravoth]

Arovoth - I respect the work you've done in RP grassroots, videos, Payday, etc. Here, when you use the term Republican Party/GOP - what group of people are you referring to exactly ? the leaders in DC ? the citizen members across the U.S. ? Because it seems like any group of people, the members will follow the leaders and the leaders will follow their base of power, and both can be changed in a positive manner.

Not so sure I believe that. The Citizen Members are the base. So they follow the leaders, but the leaders must follow the base to get elected. If that is the case then I am speaking to the whole entire party. I knew better, I knew better when the patriot act came, I knew better when we invaded Iraq. I never compromised my principles for the sake of the party. Other people knew better also, and that is why the Base shrunk dramatically in 2006. It's also why we lost congress that year. And if they don't nominate Ron Paul, it will be why we lose the 2008 election.

The group of people I am referring to is the the group that screwed up so bad that it created perfect conditions for the opposition to sweep in and drive us even deeper into the ground. That would be the people your talking about. The ones that believe the Base only follows the leader, and the leader panders to the base. They are both chasing each other, and therefore they are not responsible? I say no, they are both responsible for it.

People can be angry at me for things I say around here sometimes. I have no loyalty to the GOP any longer, they have abandoned me and my family. They are not the same party they were once upon a time. Whatever they have become, it is not to the countries benefit. They interfere in the markets, and the base goes along with it, They Torture in prisons in other countries, and the base cheers it on, they come up with an economic stimulus package, and the base cheers it on.

There was a time when we didn't ask for anything, we didn't want handouts, we didn't want Wars because we knew the cost of it. Now we interefere, in other Nations and ours, our government interferes. And it shouldn't. It should get out of our way.

I can't believe how jaded the last seven years has made me.

 

[nullvalu]

///

 

[Patriot123]

Ron Paul will WIN the GOP, due to this corrupt governments overthrow of elections which your candidate is a part of. In other words, elections have been so twisted that there's a sort of 'little known secret" that the amount of delegates a candidate has determines if they win or not. So realistically, your candidate doesn't have a shot in hell; no offense to you or your candidate whatsoever. Ron Paul is expected to pick up nearly all of the delegates in Florida once they're chosen in a week or two, and another whole bunch on Super Tuesday.

 

[mosquitobite]

Not so sure I believe that. The Citizen Members are the base. So they follow the leaders, but the leaders must follow the base to get elected. If that is the case then I am speaking to the whole entire party. I knew better, I knew better when the patriot act came, I knew better when we invaded Iraq. I never compromised my principles for the sake of the party. Other people knew better also, and that is why the Base shrunk dramatically in 2006. It's also why we lost congress that year. And if they don't nominate Ron Paul, it will be why we lose the 2008 election.

The group of people I am referring to is the the group that screwed up so bad that it created perfect conditions for the opposition to sweep in and drive us even deeper into the ground. That would be the people your talking about. The ones that believe the Base only follows the leader, and the leader panders to the base. They are both chasing each other, and therefore they are not responsible? I say no, they are both responsible for it.

People can be angry at me for things I say around here sometimes. I have no loyalty to the GOP any longer, they have abandoned me and my family. They are not the same party they were once upon a time. Whatever they have become, it is not to the countries benefit. They interfere in the markets, and the base goes along with it, They Torture in prisons in other countries, and the base cheers it on, they come up with an economic stimulus package, and the base cheers it on.

There was a time when we didn't ask for anything, we didn't want handouts, we didn't want Wars because we knew the cost of it. Now we interefere, in other Nations and ours, our government interferes. And it shouldn't. It should get out of our way.

I can't believe how jaded the last seven years has made me.

+1776

I was a freshman in college in 1994 when the Republicans offered up the Contract with America. Oh how far we've wandered...

 

[alaric]

Yes, he certainly has a chance. Ponder this: after watching the disgusting media treatment that Ron Paul got in this last debate alone coupled with the 'helpful' treatment that your man received, what chances would you give if the roles were reversed? Meaning Paul was given preferential treatment and FAR greater speaking time and Mccain was cutoff and muzzled. If this were to happen, Ron Paul would easily be the next president. He could beat hillary's lies, where your man has no chance against the media's crowned winner. Mccain is the Bob Dole of 2008.

 

[Todd]

Not so sure I believe that. The Citizen Members are the base. So they follow the leaders, but the leaders must follow the base to get elected. If that is the case then I am speaking to the whole entire party. I knew better, I knew better when the patriot act came, I knew better when we invaded Iraq. I never compromised my principles for the sake of the party. Other people knew better also, and that is why the Base shrunk dramatically in 2006. It's also why we lost congress that year. And if they don't nominate Ron Paul, it will be why we lose the 2008 election.

The group of people I am referring to is the the group that screwed up so bad that it created perfect conditions for the opposition to sweep in and drive us even deeper into the ground. That would be the people your talking about. The ones that believe the Base only follows the leader, and the leader panders to the base. They are both chasing each other, and therefore they are not responsible? I say no, they are both responsible for it.

People can be angry at me for things I say around here sometimes. I have no loyalty to the GOP any longer, they have abandoned me and my family. They are not the same party they were once upon a time. Whatever they have become, it is not to the countries benefit. They interfere in the markets, and the base goes along with it, They Torture in prisons in other countries, and the base cheers it on, they come up with an economic stimulus package, and the base cheers it on.

There was a time when we didn't ask for anything, we didn't want handouts, we didn't want Wars because we knew the cost of it. Now we interefere, in other Nations and ours, our government interferes. And it shouldn't. It should get out of our way.

I can't believe how jaded the last seven years has made me.

I couldn't have said it any better man. Your last couple posts sum it up perfectly for me. Thanks.

 

[Deoptics8]

The media has tapped McCain as the winner of the GOP just as they tap Clinton/ Obama their choices. They can lead America into these choice because it helps their revenues/ their journalists getting preferential treatment in Washington inner circles and keeps their lobbyists employed in ensuring control of how the policies are shaped for their cause. It is a club, they work hand in hand, to send out the controlled message of the DC bureaucracy in return for constant coverage which equates to advertising dollars and son.

McCain is NY Times and most of the MSM choice for GOP nomination because they want the Democrats to sweep not only the White House but Congress as well. McCain doesn't represent the MSM's views but he is candidate that will provide their ultimate goal of getting the Democrats in the White House. If McCain does become the nominee, the focus will come back to Iraq by the renewing of the constant barrage of negative news by the MSM from Iraq/Afghanistan. The MSM will then blast McCain as an sabre-rattler and the endorsements now will be meaningless. The MSM has this "3D chess game" already played out, and America is buying it (for the most part). Checkmate, MSM and the Dems win and McCain is just another pawn. This time next year, if the Dems (Clinton would be my guess) get in, buckle up, our ongoing recession will now go into overdrive. In the meantime keep pressing to get RP delegates for the RNC. Its our only hope!

 

[John P Slevin]

so, let's go for the demagogue

I think Dr. Paul is a fundamentally honest, intelligent, and good man. Nonetheless, in this day of soundbite politics and a demagogue'd electorate, Ron Paul doesn't appear to be able to get any traction with the broaded electorate.

So your reasoning is we should choose a demagogue like McCain because he speaks in soundbites?

McCain also repeatedly uses a racial slur.

 

[realist]

Outsider Joe,

thanks for respecfully challenging our thinking. I will answer you questions directly but I have one for you as well.

1) I agree with you- Ron Pauls chances of securing the republican nomination are slim (less than 10%).
2) I beleive his idea's are sound and he could be doing much better - but the campaign has failed where it counts most - at the polls. We can debate the reasons but, all we're left with are opinions.
3) Success is still possible, but not without a MAJOR, MAJOR shift which, is unlikely in my view.

You seam pretty open minded. I must say that I'm about as politcally engaged as it gets and my stance is similar to yours (fiscal conservative, social moderate, small government protecting civil liberties). But I've gotta ask... How in Gods name did you come to support John McCain?

Of all the candidates, he fits our position the least. He is not only fiscally liberal, he has no clue about economics- none. He is socially liberal (evidenced by his associations and co sponsorships with so many democrats). He is for big government, big military, was for amnesty until his staff told him that wouldn't fly and he is clueless to the inner working of governement. I mean the man has been in government for 29 years, and he didn't know about the " plunge team" thats been in existance for nearly 2 decades? He Co Sonsors McCain Feingold to save face after the Keating 5 debacle and he's coming close to violating his own bill. He outright lies and refuses to acknowledge when he is wrong, even when it's proven to his face. His temper has caused him to assault an aid in house chambers.

I could go on and on but even Vitenam Vets hate this guy. What in tarnation is appealing about this guy? I hionestly want to know since he does have the numbers... I just can't seem to understand why?

 

[jacmicwag]

The old war issue is the decider then. There are many in the Paul camp who used to believe the same as you concerning the need for foreign intervention to maintain our security. No one really knows what will happen if we change gears and give Ron's policy a shot. The current (last 50 years) policy of policing the world seems to have merit in regards to spreading liberty and democracy but we have experienced some 'unintended consequences" both good and bad. I'm ready for a change myself - McCain's myopic focus on Islamofacism gives me more cause for concern than Paul's non-interventionist approach. If we try Paul's method and it doesn't work, we can always go back to empire-building.

 

[noztnac]

No way in hell I'll ever vote for John McCain.

 

[Goldwater Conservative]

I think he can still win the nomination, but the odds are obviously against him. When the media gives a hundred times more coverage (that's probably an understatement) to any other candidate, sometimes even candidates who have already withdrawn, it's hard to reach out to many people.

Paul has run competitively with the other candidates among young voters, who disproportionately rely on the Internet for their news and candidate research, but has had massive problems among senior citizens, who disproportionately depend on television media to make their decisions.

A lot of those elderly voters are misinformed and think Paul is an isolationist or a pacifist, when he's really a traditional conservative on defense policy (he even supported SDI during the 80s), or don't even know he exists.

They also sometimes think he wants to gut their Social Security, when he's really the best candidate for it because he wants to preserve the trust fund, not raid it, and honor commitments while allowing young people to opt out of the system, and then there's his strong emphasis on sound money and fighting inflation, which hits them the hardest.

I think Paul's best chances are to pick up delegates in caucus and proportional primary states and to stay in until Huckabee and Romney drop out. Paul might be promoted, even by some of his harshest critics, as the anti-McCain since for many he's the lesser of those two "evils."

Anyway, I used to like McCain, but that was before he started talking about occupying more Middle East countries and staying in Iraq for 100 years. Not only do I think this policy of invading countries is going to bankrupt us, but it leaves us wide open for attack here at home since our military is stretched thin everywhere else, while also galvanizing and uniting the Arab/Muslim world against us.

A policy of secure borders and strong national DEFENSE (that is, people like the 9/11 hijackers couldn't get in or do what they did, and nobody would dare carry out a traditional act of war against us) is best, since it preserves our resources and actually reduces the likelihood of attack. Whatever terrorist threat remained could be dealt with by rebuilding our embarrassing intelligence agencies so that we could deal with any imminent threat.

Small-scale military operations where need be, but wholesale invasions and occupations are the wrong tactic for scattered enemies without borders or economies. Transnational enemies cannot be dealt with in the traditional manner of nation-state warfare. We should also use letters of marque and reprisal, as Paul proposed after 9/11.

 

[PatriotG]

The old war issue is the decider then. There are many in the Paul camp who used to believe the same as you concerning the need for foreign intervention to maintain our security. No one really knows what will happen if we change gears and give Ron's policy a shot. The current (last 50 years) policy of policing the world seems to have merit in regards to spreading liberty and democracy but we have experienced some 'unintended consequences" both good and bad. I'm ready for a change myself - McCain's myopic focus on Islamofacism gives me more cause for concern than Paul's non-interventionist approach. If we try Paul's method and it doesn't work, we can always go back to empire-building.

I would like to echo this answer.
One thing is for certain and you can debate me all you like on this
We are already in a recession quite possibly heading for depression

McCains warmonger beliefs will just speed up the process

Plain and simple
We can no longer afford to be be the policemen of the planet.

And I do not belive for a minute that he will resist attacking iran next

No way

I have watched evry debate so far and you can see it in his demeanor and body language

 

[porcupine07]

I will tell you folks right off the bat that I'm a John McCain supporter. I was in 2000 and I am now.

John Mc Cain:

Fought to close POW files

Lobbied to get POW investigators fired

Cheated on his wife after a tragic car accident, describing her as 4 inches shorter and had gained a good deal of weight

Wants to stay in Iraq for 100 years

Opposes repeal of the death tax

Voted against Tax cuts

Liberal on Immigration and borders

Voted to allow illegal aliens to collect social security

On tax cuts: "I was a foot soldier in the Reagan revolution." Tim Russert: But you voted against tax cuts. McCain: We need to make tax cuts permanent. We also need spending cuts. Tim: But your vote didn't include spending cuts. McCain: Non-responsive. Mentioned Reagan again.

which is laughable, since the other republicans name drop Reagan all the time, there's only one of them that Reagan actually endorsed and CAMPAIGNED for, thats Ron Paul. Reagan said Ron Paul was the best man for America in 1988, he also camapigned for him in '78.

 

[PatriotG]

I would like to echo this answer.
One thing is for certain and you can debate me all you like on this
We are already in a recession quite possibly heading for depression

McCains warmonger beliefs will just speed up the process

Plain and simple
We can no longer afford to be be the policemen of the planet.

And I do not belive for a minute that he will resist attacking iran next

No way

I have watched evry debate so far and you can see it in his demeanor and body language

PS
I hadd to add this because it may be trivial to most but not to me

McCain is a disrespectul son of a bitch to Dr paul as is romney and was Giuliani

And we see where giuliani is now