Dr. Paul's Realistic Chances?

[Eponym_mi]

I will tell you folks right off the bat that I'm a John McCain supporter. I was in 2000 and I am now. However, I'm trying fairly hard to be open-minded about Dr. Paul, given that I have fiscally conservative and socially moderate-to-liberal views (i.e., government, leave me and mine alone). So please do not respond to this post with accusations of "Troll" or insults of my preferred candidate or declarations that with my views being of such a character I'm backing the wrong man (although I am, of course, inviting these types of responses by alluding to them beforehand).

I supported McCain in 2000 with money and my vote (in the primary AND in the general as a write-in). Nevertheless, he has compromised himself in the past 8 years to an extent that I find him to be just as repulsive as Bush was to me in 2000. I will not vote for McCain again, whether or not he gets the nomination.

I vote for people based on the principles and philosophy they espouse to the extent their views agree with mine. I never vote for anyone based on what others may think or how they might vote. I am truly an independent thinker.

So, your questions seem odd to me. Are you choosing someone to represent your views? Or are you choosing a horse to bet on? It seems you favor the latter approach to picking a candidate, but for me, I'd much rather choose the long shot knowing that the choice will be of tremendous benefit to me should he win, than to make a "safe bet" instead and compromise my values as a result.

What are your values?

 

[Mattsa]

He can win. John McCain is no republican. If the election boils down to soundbites, and the GOP nominates anyone else for the General election, they are finished. Elect a guy that tried to grant amnesty to 12 million people, thats something even most democrats oppose. Then you have Romney, who at one time claimed he was more liberal than Ted Kennedy.

So those are your choices? The GOP has 5 days to pull it's head out of it's ass and return to it's roots. And you can't do that with McCain, Romney or Huckabee.

All these guys will Talk on and on about Regan. Well you know what? Ron Paul gave the Republican party Ronald Regan. Look it up sometime. If reading even means a god damn thing to anyone anymore. Regan endorsed Paul back in the 80's, and you know what? Ron Paul still hasn't change his stance on one single issue. I bet if Regan was alive today, he'd endorse him again.

The GOP is finished without Ron Paul. No other canidate is a statesman like him. While every coward in America is worried about terrorists hiding in their front lawns, everything that Ron Paul said was going to happen to the US economy 10 years ago is happening right now.

It'll be interesting to watch any democrat rip Romney and McCain to shreds over every issue they flopped on. Or maybe they won't, since both Romney and McCain's voting records are right in line with Hillary Clinton's. Either of those two get the nod, we'll have a socialistic president, and a socialistic congress. For 8 years most likely. And that will be the GOP's fault.

I will not ever Blame this election on Liberal mischif, or Socialist ideas, I will blame the GOP, I will never vote republican again after this, and I will never donate to the GOP again. The Republican Party strayed so far from the Platform that they act and behave like every other democrat that wanted to "Make the World Safe for Democracy", at the expense of our economy and our Middle class. It is the Republican fault we are here. They broke their "contract with America", they spent more than any democratic Administration ever did. They Spoke out against going into Kosovo, and yet championed the cause in Iraq. They Slaughtered Habeas Corpus, They created a whole new Government Bureaucracy, and they doubled the Dept ed, nearly doubled the Dept of energy, Said that The Medicare Prescription drug Benefit would cost 100-300 billion dollars, it wound up costing over 1 trillion, and didn't make drugs any cheaper. Un-fucking-believable.

Oh yeah, Republicans are all about Smal Government arn't they, They're all for Liberty and Freedom What a crock of shit. Go Ahead, vote for the one Idea you think is Republican (The Unconstitutional War), And think about how much like Bill Clinton you've become.

Keep beating the war drum, it won't make any difference. The economy is crashing. Even as every idiotic pundit says "Look at the Dow, it's up today, see the economy is doing fine" As if 30 companies that are owned by foreigners can drive our 13 trillion dollar economy.

As the dollar goes, so will the war, the two are tied. Hopefully after that happen the US will Balkanize, and at least that will give real conservatives a chance to form a prosporus nation again. And Once again, if that happens, It will be the GOP's fault. They Had the Reigns, they fucked it up. I don't give a shit what any pundit says.

Great post Aravoth

This must be a real dilemma for a lot of conservatives out there........because the only true conservative is Ron Paul. It's so blindingly obvious I find it hard to believe so many people out there have been suckered by the MSM.

In my opinion, if McCain gets the nomination. old fashioned conservatism in the USA is dead and buried. The GOP will morph into a centrist party and you'll end up with a similar situation to the one we have in the UK where the differentiation between the two main parties is the thickness of a cigarette paper.

A lot of these people who have supported McCain need to have a close look at themselves in the mirror and ask themselves if they really understand what they are voting for. I'm plenty sure a lot of them haven't a clue

 

[davidfarrar]

I appreciate all the responses. Unfortunately, however, the sheer number of them means I'll have to respond in generalities rather than in point-by-point fashion as is warranted (and due to you as respect for the often lengthy responses). I apologize.

Grassroots can't do everything, folks. I know someone (Bradley in DC?) indicated that the problem was with HQ and that has been resolved. Let me say then, clearly: if the Ron Paul campaign was as well managed as a campaign with enthusiastic supporters like you guys deserves, I think he would be doing much better in the polls. I still wouldn't support him -- I just don't think non-interventionism, among other things, is a policy that the Founders of the Constitution would apply to today's world (we can debate this, if you'd like, of course) -- but I can damn well agree with you that his polling numbers might be a bit better if he'd gotten an Ed Rollins or two.

I think Ron Paul's greatest legacy might be you. The movement. I just don't think he can win an election but I do think that ten years down the road Ron Paul Republicans might make up a sizeable contingent in the Congress and state assemblies.

More soon (I hope -- damn corporate dilligence filings).

Joe

In regards to Dr. Paul's greatest legacy...I hope you are right. But if his message isn't actively carried into and up the Republican Party hierarchy now, it might take another generation and a national economic depression for his legacy to be realized by the people.

So I hope all you "true" Republicans, and even you " true" Libertarians register as a Republican. Place your name on the ballot as a Republican Party Executive Committee nominee for your jurisdiction and win your seat within the Party.

If all of Dr. Paul's supporters did this, and with a little co-ordination, real conservative Republicans, just like Ron Paul, can change the face of the Republican Party overnight and perhaps, just perhaps, win the next presidential election.

If you have any questions about this procedure, drop me a line. I have done it. I have been there.

 

[tamor]

Even if Dr. Paul does not win the nomination, he has stirred in people a way to look at things differently and the importance of returning to the America of Freedom. We have heard from many new people that they are running on this idea. They like to call themselves Ron Paul Republicans. It is a revolution that will take time. Just think maybe someday you will be sitting in that Senate voting "NO" to some bill that will restrict the rights of individuals.

 

[Energy]

Doesn't it concern you the media is handpicking the "front runners"?

Last night's CNN debate should be a huge wake-up call for anyone doubting the corporate-backed media's agenda.

 

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

To put it as neutrally and non-judgmentally as possible: do you folks believe that Ron Paul will win the Republican nomination? Do you believe that Ron Paul can win the Republican nomination? At this point in time, it appears to me as an outsider that Ron Paul's chances are the least of the four remaining candidates and that even though he's still got to have a large warchest (freedomchest?), I'm not sure that he's shown that -- whether his fault of not -- he can break through to achieve anything more than an at-most 10% showing in major primaries.

I'm just curious as to how you dispassionately view your chances in this election cycle.

They aren't so good. But, Paul's been fighting against the odds for most of his political career. It's a wonder we're all here at all even talking about it, considering everything he's been up against. 2 years ago, I would have never believed that Paul could achieve the groundswell of support he has. I never would have believed he could outraise establishment types.

What has happened thus far is simply amazing. There's still a long way to go.

And this belongs in another forum.

 

[davidfarrar]

I have no fucking clue who you are, and the answer to your stupid assed questions is yes. Figure out who your talking too before you start saying dumb shit like this.

Thank you for your civilized reply....something by the way, a true Republican would never even think of doing.

Yes, I am trying to figure out who I am talking to. So when did you say you attend your last local Republican Party meeting?

 

[MsDoodahs]

And this belongs in another forum.

I'll move it to Hot Topics now.

 

[aravoth]

Thank you for your civilized reply....something by the way, a true Republican would never even think of doing.

So when did you attend your last local Republican Party meeting?

I've got a better question, when did you. Or were you focused on your "online Party" Scam. Or Better yet, what exactly have you done for Ron Paul.

And don't tell me what a "true republican" would never think of. I've been a republican my whole life, I'm a Veteran of the US Army. Smartasses like you, that jump to conclusions like you did, are annoying at best.

 

[davidfarrar]

I'll move it to Hot Topics now.

yes, I think I was getting a little bit closer to the truth than this forum can stand

 

[BigRedBrent]

McCain has 0% chance of being our next president.

How many Giuliani supporters have you heard say "If Rudy doesn't win the nomination I'm writing his name in", how many Romney supporters have said "If Romney doesn't win the nomination I'm not sure who I'll vote for, maybe the Democrat just because of the treatment he's gotten".

How many Ron Paul supporters have I heard say this, or something similar? I'd say about 90%, and several polls have reflected just that.

So, when it comes down to a close race between Democrat and Republican in November, will a Republican be able to win with that 90% of Ron Paul supporters writing his name in? When we see the exact same person when we look at McCain and Clinton do you think we'll be swayed to support the lesser of two evils?

You say you want small government? Then you only have one chance. Ron Paul or nobody.

When you go to the voting booth just remember this.

It's Ron Paul or Hillary Clinton. The sooner people realize this the sooner we can start raising money for Ron Paul's general election run.

Exactly, that is why I made this video:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=DV6G-jAGFg0


I love the last part of your post. I have been trying to get others to understand that if we don't nominate Ron Paul as the republican candidate then we WILL have a democrat as our next president.

 

[Ron2Win]

I appreciate all the responses. Unfortunately, however, the sheer number of them means I'll have to respond in generalities rather than in point-by-point fashion as is warranted (and due to you as respect for the often lengthy responses). I apologize.

Grassroots can't do everything, folks. I know someone (Bradley in DC?) indicated that the problem was with HQ and that has been resolved. Let me say then, clearly: if the Ron Paul campaign was as well managed as a campaign with enthusiastic supporters like you guys deserves, I think he would be doing much better in the polls. I still wouldn't support him -- I just don't think non-interventionism, among other things, is a policy that the Founders of the Constitution would apply to today's world (we can debate this, if you'd like, of course) -- but I can damn well agree with you that his polling numbers might be a bit better if he'd gotten an Ed Rollins or two.

I think Ron Paul's greatest legacy might be you. The movement. I just don't think he can win an election but I do think that ten years down the road Ron Paul Republicans might make up a sizeable contingent in the Congress and state assemblies.

More soon (I hope -- damn corporate dilligence filings).

Joe

Friendship with all nations my friend. Unfortunately America is so shielded by our own views that we fail to see what is going on around us.

The world is leaving us behind by joining together in trade and all we can do is "scream" that we are not getting in.

The world standard is increasing while ours is decreasing, how does it all happen? It's the lie of "Foreign Aid" we are taxing our people to oblivion and sending our money around the world.

The ones that benefit from this "foreign aid" are but a few, at the expense of the many American people.

 

[Elwar]

yes, I think I was getting a little bit closer to the truth than this forum can stand

What was the last thing you've done to get Ron Paul elected?

 

[aravoth]

What was the last thing you've done to get Ron Paul elected?

he's working on "the online party", and joined the Forum this month to promote on his sig.

 

[Ronin]

(Also, can someone point me to the RNC regulation that dictates that a brokered convention candidate must have participated in the primaries? I'm not sure if this is the case, and if it's not, don't be surprised to see a brand new face emerge...).

I don't have the link off hand, but I think it's pretty well known that a candidate must get the majority of delegates in 5 states. Of course, the way this year has been I wouldn't be surprised if the rules changed.

 

[Rhys]

I think Ron Paul CAN win. However, when the media acts like they do, it makes it seem impossible. If the "trusted" CNN wont even let him talk at a debate, the public is forced to ask them self if he can even be president.

I was for McCain in 2000. That was when I didn't understand Free Markets and Liberty. Also, McCain wasn't itchin to start wars in 2000.

The way I see it, if I don't vote for Ron Paul, this country will have no way left to go. All we'll be left with is a choice between communism and militarized statism with ZERO liberty coming from either selection.

McCain will tell us we need to give up liberty and ALL OUR MONEY for some unseen and terrible enemy... I'm not scared of terrorists. I have a better chance of dying TODAY from LIGHTNING. I'm scared of an American President furthering the concept of the Oval Office being some kind of Throne.

With the dems, I'm scared of the abject poverty and loss of individualism that comes with socialism.

Therefor, even IF Dr. Paul doesn't win, I will support him and his platform for ever into every election.

Also now thanks to Dr. Paul, I will run for state office, then governor of my badly dysfunctional state. In Michigan, we have a Canadian Communist governor and thanks to Ron Paul, I know how to fix it.

That is what Ron Paul is to us... hope for ever. Not just this election.

As a former McCain supporter, to me now, McCain is dumb. He's a moderate because he doesn't know enough about either side to chose. That's my honest opinion.

He uses slogans and such but never knows why. Like in the debate where he said "healthcare is caused by....uh....inflation?...." but he was trying to sound like he knew what he was talking about. Then, last night, he tried again and couldn't even remember "Sub Prime Mortgages"!!!!

Yeah, as a former McCain supporter (voted for him against Bush in 2000) I think he's a dolt. I must have missed it last time because Bush is a dolt too.

I don't honestly see how I could vote for McCain or Romeny or Huck or Hilary or Obama. They're all so terrible. They pander but don't think about what would be the results of their actions. We've knows this about liberals for years, that they think with their heart and not their head. Now that the GOP is in on that game, it's real sad.

That's why I support Ron Paul.

 

[belian78]

I apologize for the disjointedness of this response. (I'm trying to type a little as I'm working.)


I do believe -- and here is likely where you and I will part ways, ultimately -- that it is more important for the person you believe will be the best President than the person you believe best represents your views. So, while I disagree with John McCain on abortion (I'm moderate-to-pro-choice) and gay rights (I'm pro-gay marriage) and immigration (I'm for securing the borders and not granting special permissions), I believe John McCain has the character to be a great President. I'm sure many of you disagree. I respect that. (Oh, and as a side note, I've taken the quizzes and, yes, my views are closest to Dr. Paul's views.)

this is all that needs to be said as far as i'm concerned. this is what's wrong with this country.

if the man is going to further bankrupt this nation, drag us into more needless wars (which WILL take the draft), and then on top of that NOT EVEN REPRESENT YOUR VIEWS, how can you vote for him?

 

[raystone]

He can win. John McCain is no republican. If the election boils down to soundbites, and the GOP nominates anyone else for the General election, they are finished. Elect a guy that tried to grant amnesty to 12 million people, thats something even most democrats oppose. Then you have Romney, who at one time claimed he was more liberal than Ted Kennedy.

So those are your choices? The GOP has 5 days to pull it's head out of it's ass and return to it's roots. And you can't do that with McCain, Romney or Huckabee.

All these guys will Talk on and on about Regan. Well you know what? Ron Paul gave the Republican party Ronald Regan. Look it up sometime. If reading even means a god damn thing to anyone anymore. Regan endorsed Paul back in the 80's, and you know what? Ron Paul still hasn't change his stance on one single issue. I bet if Regan was alive today, he'd endorse him again.

The GOP is finished without Ron Paul. No other canidate is a statesman like him. While every coward in America is worried about terrorists hiding in their front lawns, everything that Ron Paul said was going to happen to the US economy 10 years ago is happening right now.

It'll be interesting to watch any democrat rip Romney and McCain to shreds over every issue they flopped on. Or maybe they won't, since both Romney and McCain's voting records are right in line with Hillary Clinton's. Either of those two get the nod, we'll have a socialistic president, and a socialistic congress. For 8 years most likely. And that will be the GOP's fault.

I will not ever Blame this election on Liberal mischif, or Socialist ideas, I will blame the GOP, I will never vote republican again after this, and I will never donate to the GOP again. The Republican Party strayed so far from the Platform that they act and behave like every other democrat that wanted to "Make the World Safe for Democracy", at the expense of our economy and our Middle class. It is the Republican fault we are here. They broke their "contract with America", they spent more than any democratic Administration ever did. They Spoke out against going into Kosovo, and yet championed the cause in Iraq. They Slaughtered Habeas Corpus, They created a whole new Government Bureaucracy, and they doubled the Dept ed, nearly doubled the Dept of energy, Said that The Medicare Prescription drug Benefit would cost 100-300 billion dollars, it wound up costing over 1 trillion, and didn't make drugs any cheaper. Un-fucking-believable.

Oh yeah, Republicans are all about Smal Government arn't they, They're all for Liberty and Freedom What a crock of shit. Go Ahead, vote for the one Idea you think is Republican (The Unconstitutional War), And think about how much like Bill Clinton you've become.

Keep beating the war drum, it won't make any difference. The economy is crashing. Even as every idiotic pundit says "Look at the Dow, it's up today, see the economy is doing fine" As if 30 companies that are owned by foreigners can drive our 13 trillion dollar economy.

As the dollar goes, so will the war, the two are tied. Hopefully after that happen the US will Balkanize, and at least that will give real conservatives a chance to form a prosporus nation again. And Once again, if that happens, It will be the GOP's fault. They Had the Reigns, they fucked it up. I don't give a shit what any pundit says.

Arovoth - I respect the work you've done in RP grassroots, videos, Payday, etc. Here, when you use the term Republican Party/GOP - what group of people are you referring to exactly ? the leaders in DC ? the citizen members across the U.S. ? Because it seems like any group of people, the members will follow the leaders and the leaders will follow their base of power, and both can be changed in a positive manner.

 

[Steve_New_Jersey]

I appreciate all the responses. Unfortunately, however, the sheer number of them means I'll have to respond in generalities rather than in point-by-point fashion as is warranted (and due to you as respect for the often lengthy responses). I apologize.

Grassroots can't do everything, folks. I know someone (Bradley in DC?) indicated that the problem was with HQ and that has been resolved. Let me say then, clearly: if the Ron Paul campaign was as well managed as a campaign with enthusiastic supporters like you guys deserves, I think he would be doing much better in the polls. I still wouldn't support him -- I just don't think non-interventionism, among other things, is a policy that the Founders of the Constitution would apply to today's world (we can debate this, if you'd like, of course) -- but I can damn well agree with you that his polling numbers might be a bit better if he'd gotten an Ed Rollins or two.

I think Ron Paul's greatest legacy might be you. The movement. I just don't think he can win an election but I do think that ten years down the road Ron Paul Republicans might make up a sizeable contingent in the Congress and state assemblies.

More soon (I hope -- damn corporate dilligence filings).

Joe

The support for RP is a perfect example of his platform. Allowing people to be free has taken this campain this far. Everyone can get involved without regulation from the top.

You talk about the constitutional approach not applying today? Things are no different today then they had been 100 years ago. The human race is still up to the same old bag of tricks. Our getting involved in the afairs of others is what created this mess we have now. The constitution is the ONLY way to fix it. We can not continue to make the same mistakes over and over. Short of killing every Muslim in the mid-east there is no way to fix the current issues. I am not prepared to wipe the mid-east clean. We went into nation building in Afgan that was a mistake. We went into Iraq and that was 100% wrong. Now while we are trying to make the best of this bad situation we are toying around with Iran and Israel as well as elections and dictating to other countries internal affairs. At the same time we are giving EVERYONE money on all sides of the fence that we dont have.
We need the constitution now more then ever.

We are not going to be RP's legacy. RP is a legacy of the founding fathers. Every American is supposed to be. We owe everything we have to those brave men and its about time people started following the law laid out for us. Mc Cain is a criminal. He constantly votes against the constitution and caters to the lobby army. A violation of the constitution should be tried like any other crime. In a court.

 

[mosquitobite]

I appreciate all the responses. Unfortunately, however, the sheer number of them means I'll have to respond in generalities rather than in point-by-point fashion as is warranted (and due to you as respect for the often lengthy responses). I apologize.

Grassroots can't do everything, folks. I know someone (Bradley in DC?) indicated that the problem was with HQ and that has been resolved. Let me say then, clearly: if the Ron Paul campaign was as well managed as a campaign with enthusiastic supporters like you guys deserves, I think he would be doing much better in the polls. I still wouldn't support him -- I just don't think non-interventionism, among other things, is a policy that the Founders of the Constitution would apply to today's world (we can debate this, if you'd like, of course) -- but I can damn well agree with you that his polling numbers might be a bit better if he'd gotten an Ed Rollins or two.

I think Ron Paul's greatest legacy might be you. The movement. I just don't think he can win an election but I do think that ten years down the road Ron Paul Republicans might make up a sizeable contingent in the Congress and state assemblies.

More soon (I hope -- damn corporate dilligence filings).

Joe

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=1136871&postcount=45

I'll ask you as I ask others who consider the War on Terror to be their #1 issue: What defines WINNING?

And once you define that... tell me how it would be ANY different than the War on Drugs?

-Never ending, money pit, eroding all American good will around the world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservatism

Neoconservatism emphasises foreign policy as paramount responsibility of government, seeing the need for the U.S. acting as the world's sole superpower as indispensable to establishing and maintaining global order.[2]

The term 'Neoconservative' was originally used as a criticism against liberals that had politically 'moved to the right'.

Historically, neoconservatives supported a militant anticommunism [26], tolerated more social welfare spending than was sometimes acceptable to libertarians and mainstream conservatives, and sympathized with a non-traditional foreign policy agenda that was less deferential to traditional conceptions of diplomacy and international law and less inclined to compromise principles, even if that meant unilateral action. (pre-emptive war)

Ie…liberals invaded our party and ruined it…

Now ask yourself again... HOW do you fund that philosophy without bankrupting this great nation?