Doctors advised woman to abort her 'severely brain damaged' daughter, born perfectly healthy

[FSU63]

If someone hurts a pregnant woman in such a way that causes her to miscarry (in any trimester), has a murder occurred to you?

Think of it this way-a mother's body may be her property, but her womb is not-that is the child's property.

No, the womb is the mother's property. And a murder cannot be committed against something that is not yet a person.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

No, the womb is the mother's property. And a murder cannot be committed against something that is not yet a person.

A fetus is genetically human. Even if you pull it out in the first trimester, it is still a homo sapien sapien. A woman shares her womb with a child when she is pregnant. It is the unborn human's living space. Until she gives birth, it is communal property.

 

[FSU63]

A fetus is genetically human. Even if you pull it out in the first trimester, it is still a homo sapien sapien.

I don't believe it can be considered a "human" with natural rights until it leaves the womb.

Regardless, whether it has natural rights from conception or not, the womb is still the mother's property. If she wants to evict the fetus, she has the right to do so. But, she has no right to kill it. However, if it dies in the process of eviction, she and the doctors are at no fault.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

I don't believe it can be considered a "human" with natural rights until it leaves the womb.

Regardless, whether it has natural rights from conception or not, the womb is still the mother's property. If she wants to evict the fetus, she has the right to do so. But, she has no right to kill it. However, if it dies in the process of eviction, she and the doctors are at no fault.

According to who?

 

[FSU63]

According to who?

Anyone that believes in property rights.

Are you listening to what you're saying? You're saying that a woman's own womb is NOT her property.

 

[cajuncocoa]

The terms "Pro-life" and "Pro-choice" are both propaganda words

I've always thought so too. Not for nothing, those who support abortion choose euphamisms such as "women's rights" and "pro-choice". You're either anti-abortion or pro-abortion....that's it.

there are some circumstances I do not oppose killing.

I oppose killing in all circumstances, but this is another reason why the religious Right should stop using the term "pro-life", because they certainly DO support taking life under certain circumstances (war and capital punishment, just to name two).

 

[tod evans]

Anyone that believes in property rights.

Are you listening to what you're saying? You're saying that a woman's own womb is NOT her property.

Are you saying human life is property?

 

[FSU63]

I've always thought so too. Not for nothing, those who support abortion choose euphamisms such as "women's rights" and "pro-choice". You're either anti-abortion or pro-abortion....that's it.

Why do the terms matter so much? What difference does it make if I say "pro-choice"?

Using the proper term is the least of my concerns.

 

[FSU63]

Are you saying human life is property?

I'm saying that a woman's womb is her property and she has the right to evict trespassers.

 

[tod evans]

I'm saying that a woman's womb is her property and she has the right to evict trespassers.

A life invited by consent cannot be considered a "trespasser" by even the most convoluted thought process.

She signed a lease when she copulated.

Now enforce your property rights.

 

[FSU63]

A life invited by consent cannot be considered a "trespasser" by even the most convoluted thought process.

She signed a lease when she copulated.

Now enforce your property rights.

Yes. And she has the right at any time to change her mind and evict the trespasser.

 

[cajuncocoa]

Why do the terms matter so much? What difference does it make if I say "pro-choice"?

Using the proper term is the least of my concerns.

It doesn't matter to me all that much...just seems like an attempt to avoid what it really means, that's all.

 

[tod evans]

Yes. And she has the right at any time to change her mind and evict the trespasser.

Oh bullshit!

Try that with any other lease on the planet in any type of courtroom.

Your property rights argument doesn't hold water, try another.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

Anyone that believes in property rights.

Are you listening to what you're saying? You're saying that a woman's own womb is NOT her property.

No, I said it's the fetuses' property when she is pregnant. Outisde of that time, it is her property. Are you listening to what you're saying? You're saying that infanticide isn't infanticide if done under the right conditions. In an way you're somewhat like a Catholic Scholastic. (I don't mean that in a derogatory way. Just sayin'.)

 

[FSU63]

Oh bullshit!

Try that with any other lease on the planet in any type of courtroom.

Your property rights argument doesn't hold water, try another.

Lease? When does the mother sign this "lease"?

An unborn baby doesn't have rights. Even if it did, the baby is still an unwanted occupant in the mother's womb.

Getting an abortion is akin to taking a laxative to try and get rid of parasites in your body.

 

[FSU63]

No, I said it's the fetuses' property when she is pregnant. Outisde of that time, it is her property. Are you listening to what you're saying? You're saying that infanticide isn't infanticide if done under the right conditions. In an way you're somewhat like a Catholic Scholastic. (I don't mean that in a derogatory way. Just sayin'.)

So the mother loses the rights to her own body when she becomes pregnant? What if she was raped?

 

[heavenlyboy34]

Lease? When does the mother sign this "lease"?

It's a tacit agreement in Natural Law (which you seem to enjoy appealing to)

An unborn baby doesn't have rights. Even if it did, the baby is still an unwanted occupant in the mother's womb.

It does have rights, which comes from its humanity. This is why killing a pregnant woman is considered double homicide

Getting an abortion is akin to taking a laxative to try and get rid of parasites in your body.

Actually, it's nothing like that. 1) When a fetus finishes gestating, it no longer needs direct care from the mother's body. A parasite dies when removed from the host. 2) parasites lack humanity (or "humanness" as some philosophers say)

 

[heavenlyboy34]

So the mother loses the rights to her own body when she becomes pregnant?

Only to the extent that it is relevant to the baby.

What if she was raped?

What about it? Killing a "rape baby" is still murder.

 

[FSU63]

What about it? Killing a "rape baby" is still murder.

Makes sense.

Mother gets raped, force her to have her rapist's baby.

So moral. So heavenly. Tell me how just and good you are. Riveting tale.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

Makes sense.

Mother gets raped, force her to have her rapist's baby.

This presumes childbirth is "punishment" or something negative. Prove it.

So moral. So heavenly. Tell me how just and good you are. Riveting tale.

If this bit of sarcasm was supposed to help your argument, it failed. Try again.